P. Thomas situtation for saints might get ugly?

[clearwater cadet]

It seem the Saints and P.Thomas are far apart with contract talk. From reading PFT, the saints seem to be holding all the cards. I wonder if the Saints would be intersted in Lynch for J. Brown. I know Brown is coming off an injury, but he is expected to hold out for the Saints. I'm not a big fan of trading Lynch, I wasn't a fan of trading Jason Peters, but like Peters if the guy doesn't want to be here what are you going to do.

 

thoughts

[EndZoneCrew]

I think they should re-sign Dalton Hilliard

[DrDawkinstein]

It seem the Saints and P.Thomas are far apart with contract talk. From reading PFT, the saints seem to be holding all the cards. I wonder if the Saints would be intersted in Lynch for J. Brown. I know Brown is coming off an injury, but he is expected to hold out for the Saints. I'm not a big fan of trading Lynch, I wasn't a fan of trading Jason Peters, but like Peters if the guy doesn't want to be here what are you going to do.

 

thoughts

 

first off, EVERY team has "issues" with players, every year. It's just part of the league now. The only reason people think every situation is a big deal is because ESPN needs something to talk about. Most of these situations get resolved.

 

wrt trading players who dont want to be here, i like the stance that the New Regime has taken so far which is "you're under contract. show up and play."

 

someone recently posted that the last, spineless regime set the standard with Clements and Peters that all players have to do is pout and theyll get what they want. I never agreed with letting Clements walk for nothing, and entertaining Peters demands with that much time left on a contact. Nix and Co. will not let Lynch dictate what happens. And we're not about to trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract.

 

I like Lynch, but he can sit and rot if he wants to be a lil B word.

[Fingon]

first off, EVERY team has "issues" with players, every year. It's just part of the league now. The only reason people think every situation is a big deal is because ESPN needs something to talk about. Most of these situations get resolved.

 

wrt trading players who dont want to be here, i like the stance that the New Regime has taken so far which is "you're under contract. show up and play."

 

someone recently posted that the last, spineless regime set the standard with Clements and Peters that all players have to do is pout and theyll get what they want. I never agreed with letting Clements walk for nothing, and entertaining Peters demands with that much time left on a contact. Nix and Co. will not let Lynch dictate what happens. And we're not about to trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract.

 

I like Lynch, but he can sit and rot if he wants to be a lil B word.

The problem is that Pierre Thomas wants to be paid like a starter, and the Saints are saying they won't pay him more than a backup. This one could actually get really ugly. The Saints can reduce his tender to $500,000 soon, and Thomas very well may hold out.

[NoSaint]

The problem is that Pierre Thomas wants to be paid like a starter, and the Saints are saying they won't pay him more than a backup. This one could actually get really ugly. The Saints can reduce his tender to $500,000 soon, and Thomas very well may hold out.

 

 

They are trying to give him Fred Jackson money, which if you look at his numbers and role, seems atleast ballpark for a starting point. We will see if the gap is as big as advertised. It was originally reported that he wanted Stephen Jackson money, now its rumored to be Michael Turner.... if its the difference between 4yrs 12 mill, and 4 years 16mill, it might not be that bad.

 

It is also rumored down here that Brown and lance moore are being shopped as a package -- what it would take in return, i dont know - Marshawn and a pick? Perhaps the name schobel does end up resurfacing?

[clearwater cadet]

first off, EVERY team has "issues" with players, every year. It's just part of the league now. The only reason people think every situation is a big deal is because ESPN needs something to talk about. Most of these situations get resolved.

 

wrt trading players who dont want to be here, i like the stance that the New Regime has taken so far which is "you're under contract. show up and play."

 

someone recently posted that the last, spineless regime set the standard with Clements and Peters that all players have to do is pout and theyll get what they want. I never agreed with letting Clements walk for nothing, and entertaining Peters demands with that much time left on a contact. Nix and Co. will not let Lynch dictate what happens. And we're not about to trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract.

I like Lynch, but he can sit and rot if he wants to be a lil B word.

 

Who said anything about a "trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract", I'm talking about a trade of Lynch for a left tackle who is demanding a new, big contract. I'm all running backed out at this point.

[Sabre Bill]

I'm all running backed out at this point.

 

 

:cry:

[NoSaint]

Who said anything about a "trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract", I'm talking about a trade of Lynch for a left tackle who is demanding a new, big contract. I'm all running backed out at this point.

 

 

in all the talk of trades for a RB in new orleans, i havent heard anyone say they want to send pierre out of town. I think he is playing here, either one year, or four, and whoever they trade for would be in order to let him walk next year.

[JohnC]

Who said anything about a "trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract", I'm talking about a trade of Lynch for a left tackle who is demanding a new, big contract. I'm all running backed out at this point.

 

If the issue was as simple as trading Lynch for JB I would quickly take it. Brown would certainly fill a critical need and his addition would add depth to the line. Using Bell and Merideth as backups and having them fill in would certainly be a better way to develop them as opposed to just throwing them in and hoping that they can handle their positions. What the front office needs to know is whether JB could come to satisfactory contract agreement with the Bills. My understanding is that his contract runs out after this season. Another consideration is how healthy or impaired is he?

 

As it stands I strongly suspect the Saints might cut JB if they can't deal him. Last year they rotated a couple players to fill the LT spot, with the young player (Bushrod) getting most of the playing time. In addition, the Saints drafted LT Charles Brown from USC in the second round so they have that position well staffed, even without JB.

[NoSaint]

If the issue was as simple as trading Lynch for JB I would quickly take it. Brown would certainly fill a critical need and his addition would add depth to the line. Using Bell and Merideth as backups and having them fill in would certainly be a better way to develop them as opposed to just throwing them in and hoping that they can handle their positions. What the front office needs to know is whether JB could come to satisfactory contract agreement with the Bills. My understanding is that his contract runs out after this season. Another consideration is how healthy or impaired is he?

 

As it stands I strongly suspect the Saints might cut JB if they can't deal him. Last year they rotated a couple players to fill the LT spot, with the young player (Bushrod) getting most of the playing time. In addition, the Saints drafted LT Charles Brown from USC in the second round so they have that position well staffed, even without JB.

 

 

word is brown is upset for being IR'ed because he felt he could come back and play. If thats an indicator, health isnt as big an issue as some might think. He is currently an RFA so yes, it is a one year deal right now, and a deal he doesnt want to play under. He is looking for probowl LT money, long term. He has had concerns about back issues for years, which is worrisome at his age when making that commitment. Also, you might pull your hair out with untimely penalties, he seems to be a master. All that said, as a starter on day one he is much better then ANYONE else on the line. All a matter of how long you believe he can play at that level.

[DrDawkinstein]

Who said anything about a "trade for a RB who is demanding a new, big contract", I'm talking about a trade of Lynch for a left tackle who is demanding a new, big contract. I'm all running backed out at this point.

 

my bad, the "J. Brown" did not register in my brain while i was reading quickly.

[NoSaint]

my bad, the "J. Brown" did not register in my brain while i was reading quickly.

 

 

the other thing that i think people miss which might be a good throw in for buffalo is Lance moore. it has been discussed many times in the local media that the brown and moore might be part of a package deal to someone -- Another RFA, could be a 2/3 receiver on this team.... Great route runner, probably the best hands on the saints.

 

also the schobel "its up to buffalo" comment seems ominous about wanting to get dealt. He couldnt want more money, and it wouldnt be practical to be expecting Buff to play 4-3, so what exactly would be up to the bills to do?

 

schobel and lynch for brown and moore?

[SuperKillerRobots]

If the issue was as simple as trading Lynch for JB I would quickly take it. Brown would certainly fill a critical need and his addition would add depth to the line. Using Bell and Merideth as backups and having them fill in would certainly be a better way to develop them as opposed to just throwing them in and hoping that they can handle their positions. What the front office needs to know is whether JB could come to satisfactory contract agreement with the Bills. My understanding is that his contract runs out after this season. Another consideration is how healthy or impaired is he?

 

As it stands I strongly suspect the Saints might cut JB if they can't deal him. Last year they rotated a couple players to fill the LT spot, with the young player (Bushrod) getting most of the playing time. In addition, the Saints drafted LT Charles Brown from USC in the second round so they have that position well staffed, even without JB.

 

I think the front office also has to be sure that Brown is a better player than what they have now and going forward because if comes in one of either Bell or Meredith doesn't make the team.

[NoSaint]

I think the front office also has to be sure that Brown is a better player than what they have now and going forward because if comes in one of either Bell or Meredith doesn't make the team.

 

 

Brown is a probowl left tackle, coming off one season on IR. Bell got beaten like a drum last year. I dont think Brown is going to make the AFC probowl squad if he comes to Buffalo, but he is the real deal. Like i said, some back issues that might come up down the line (but big men tend to have that prob) and takes a few too many penalties -- otherwise, among the best in the league, and you are comparing him to guys that would be borderline cuts at best on any other team.

[JohnC]

word is brown is upset for being IR'ed because he felt he could come back and play. If thats an indicator, health isnt as big an issue as some might think. He is currently an RFA so yes, it is a one year deal right now, and a deal he doesnt want to play under. He is looking for probowl LT money, long term. He has had concerns about back issues for years, which is worrisome at his age when making that commitment. Also, you might pull your hair out with untimely penalties, he seems to be a master. All that said, as a starter on day one he is much better then ANYONE else on the line. All a matter of how long you believe he can play at that level.

 

Thanks for your informative post. Brown is a good OT but he is not an upper tier player. As it usually is the issue is as much about the contract expectations as the team's concern about the performance level. Under Nix I don't see him acquiring a high priced player in a trade or off the market. If you look at our free agent acquisitions this off-season most fell in the category of mid-level type of players with mid-level contracts i.e. Dawn Edwards, Davis and Tobor.

 

There is a strong probability that the Saints will either trade JB or outright cut him. With the development of Bushrod and the drafting of LT Charles Brown in the second round the Saints seem well covered at the LT position. The Bills could learn from the way the Saints handled their LT situation compared to the way the Bills disastrously handled the Peters situation.

[JohnC]

Brown is a probowl left tackle, coming off one season on IR. Bell got beaten like a drum last year. I dont think Brown is going to make the AFC probowl squad if he comes to Buffalo, but he is the real deal. Like i said, some back issues that might come up down the line (but big men tend to have that prob) and takes a few too many penalties -- otherwise, among the best in the league, and you are comparing him to guys that would be borderline cuts at best on any other team.

 

You make an interesting point about Brown. Playing on an offensive squad with a dynamic qb in Brees and weapons in the backfield and receiver corps certainly substantially improves the play of the OL. With the Bills and their stunted offense I'm not sure how much of an impact he would have for us. But as you pointed out he would be a dramatic upgrade over what we presently have.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

wrt trading players who dont want to be here, i like the stance that the New Regime has taken so far which is "you're under contract. show up and play."

 

someone recently posted that the last, spineless regime set the standard with Clements and Peters that all players have to do is pout and theyll get what they want. I never agreed with letting Clements walk for nothing, and entertaining Peters demands with that much time left on a contact. Nix and Co. will not let Lynch dictate what happens.

I generally agree with you, Doc. The NFL's a biz and most of the time it's better to be business like…which often means, playing hardball.

 

BUT, you don't want to "cut off your nose to spite your face" either. As much as teams don't want to get the reputation for caving in to a player, there might appear an opportunity to improve the team. This might be one of those times. And if you can improve the team, that is more important than playing hardball, IMO.

 

Lynch for Brown? Makes some sense for both teams. Mike Bell won't be returning to the Saints and neither is Aaron Stecker so it's Pierre Thomas (if he signs), Reggie Bush, and a bunch of nobodies. The Saints are very thin at running back. The Bills need a tackle.

 

As far as Lance Moore goes, nice player. Being phased out because of the arrival of Meacham and the Saints depth at WR. But at 5'9" (and it doesn't bother me personally) Moore doesn't fit the big wide receiver profile that Buddy Nix has publicly mentioned that he prefers.

 

I think the front office also has to be sure that Brown is a better player than what they have now and going forward because if comes in one of either Bell or Meredith doesn't make the team.

Well, BJ, it depends on the price. If he comes somewhat cheaply, then you have less invested and you can take a greater risk. Brown does have nice credentials. So does Marshawn Lynch. It does seem to make sense for both teams.

 

And as others have pointed out, there may be other players who can be included to make the deal happen.

[NoSaint]

Lynell Hamilton isn't a terrible 3 for the saints backfield. A trade for marshawn would be to replace PT in the long term, having him this year is a perk of getting something done now.

 

Lance Moore is, as the other poster said, expendable because of meacham. Essentially pushing a very good player due for a contract to the bench. He has proven to be better then a 3 or 4 and will expect to be paid as better then a 3 or 4 -- wrong year for him to deal with a lingering injury. It left him in a tough place contract wise.

 

As for brown, the saints don't let him walk for nothing. The team doesn't believe that bushrod is a reliable superbowl LT, brown is -- unfortunately they don't believe they he is worth what it would take to keep him. Leaves them trying to maximize his value to the team. A year with him, or 5 with marshawn? If you doubt that the team worries about bushrod tho, watch what Demarcus ware and an injured Dwight freeney did to bushrod. Imagine how different that game is with freeney healthy. It's also forgotten or glossed over that bushrod was benched for the TB game mid season. The road to the superbowl in the NFC has the cowboys, and vikes (ie ware and allen) and the saints play them both in the regular season, likely the playoffs too. Even if it's just buying a year for Charles brown, Jamaal has value in new Orleans this year, he will not be cut, I promise you that.

[LGB]

Thomas seemed to be dinged up more often than not last year, which doesn't seem to help his case.

[JohnC]

Lynell Hamilton isn't a terrible 3 for the saints backfield. A trade for marshawn would be to replace PT in the long term, having him this year is a perk of getting something done now.

 

Lance Moore is, as the other poster said, expendable because of meacham. Essentially pushing a very good player due for a contract to the bench. He has proven to be better then a 3 or 4 and will expect to be paid as better then a 3 or 4 -- wrong year for him to deal with a lingering injury. It left him in a tough place contract wise.

 

As for brown, the saints don't let him walk for nothing. The team doesn't believe that bushrod is a reliable superbowl LT, brown is -- unfortunately they don't believe they he is worth what it would take to keep him. Leaves them trying to maximize his value to the team. A year with him, or 5 with marshawn? If you doubt that the team worries about bushrod tho, watch what Demarcus ware and an injured Dwight freeney did to bushrod. Imagine how different that game is with freeney healthy. It's also forgotten or glossed over that bushrod was benched for the TB game mid season. The road to the superbowl in the NFC has the cowboys, and vikes (ie ware and allen) and the saints play them both in the regular season, likely the playoffs too. Even if it's just buying a year for Charles brown, Jamaal has value in new Orleans this year, he will not be cut, I promise you that.

 

You noted in a prior posting that JB is asking for a contract commensurate with an all-pro status. With the number of good players on their roster I don't see the Saints being able to accommodate him and still be within the cap or have his gilded contract not limit their options signing other players, including players currently on their roster. The NFL today is about contracts/value and player movement.

 

A couple years ago the Ravens had Ray Lewis and A. Thomas contract up for re-doing at the same time or nearly the same. The front office knew they couldn't keep both. The Ravens decided to let A. Thomas go and getting nothing for him. He then signed a very rich contract with the Pats. As it turned out A. Thomas didn't work out in NE and Ray Lewis continued to be a central player on defense for the Ravens. As usual Ozzie Newsome, one of the best GMs in the game, made the right decision.

 

The point I'm making is even if the Saints like JB they might not be able to keep him unless they knock their cap management out of balance. Sometimes when a high profile player is cut that doesn't necessarily mean you are getting nothing in return. What you are getting is more cap room to make other personnel moves.