Captain Caveman Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Like the Roman Catholic Church in the 1500’s As opposed to the Roman Catholic church today?
John Cocktosten Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Like the Roman Catholic Church since the 1500’s fixed
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 It makes no sense that a team that he doesn't coach anymore has to pay for his sins. The NCAA is so ass backwards it makes me sick. It's unreal that Matt Barkley will probably never play in a bowl game again. That's terrible logic. It wasn't Carroll's team, it was USC's team, and that is why USC is being punished. And they are getting off easy. USC is being punished because the program broke the rules. Not just Carroll, but the whole program. Carroll was acting as an employee/agent of that program and those in charge of it were/are responsible for his actions. What are you guys suggesting, that a college program can cheat all it wants, and as long as it switches coaches every time it get caught there is no penalty??? Wow...it's even harsher than than initially reported: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news...penalties061010 I guess the sanctions against the basketball and women's tennis teams are also Pete Carroll's fault. First, where exactly did I say that Carroll had no role in running the program? Please link back to my post. Second, what I said was, it's wrong to assume he had the only role and therefore the premise that it's "unfair" to punish USC since Carroll is gone is flawed. You jumped all over me so apparently you disagree with that but you have yet to explain yourself how YOU would punish USC so this type of behavior is properly disincented. Entrenched in my view?? Good grief. KD, maybe I'm misconstruing what you're writing but it seems like you were intent on mimimizing Carroll's role and instead pointing the finger at the school. I also thought you showed a lack of compassion for the football players. As I said earlier, I believe that Carroll, as the CEO of football, is mostly responsible for the sanctions against the football team. It seemed that you thought it was more the school's responsibility. As far as what I would do going forward, I suggested earlier "if the NCAA really wanted to clean up the sport, they could require that the schools include language in coaching contracts providing for sanctions in the case of rules violations." The schools could also then claim a breach of contract and sue the coaches for reimbursement. I think very substantial fines are the best course of action. Retroactively, I wish that it was possible to administer very heavy fines to both the school and to Carroll. This is, after all, big business we're talking about here and nothing speaks louder about the seriousness of breaking the rules than hitting them in the pocket book. Hard. If a school was fined millions of dollars and a coach, tens of thousands of dollars, I think it would be a very effective deterrent to future cheating. If it was within the legal framework existing, these are the things I would do if I were the NCAA. As you suggested, maybe rule-breaking coaches could face a prohibition from working within the NCAA's auspices. I am not in favor of any sanctions which would penalize the kids who are victims of Carroll's/USC's lack of respect for the rules and were not on that 2004-2005 team.
JohnC Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I am not in favor of any sanctions which would penalize the kids who are victims of Carroll's/USC's lack of respect for the rules and were not on that 2004-2005 team. There is a unique twist to the NCAA ruling against USC. Juniors and Seniors currently in the football program will be allowed to transfer without having to sit out a year. That should further eviscerate the football program. There is no doubt that Reggie Bush and his family got money and additional benefits for Reggie's "professional" football career at USC. But what was even more blatant was the basketball program's recruitment of Mayo. The aroma of $$$ followed Mayo in his many high school and AAU travels. There was no doubt there were violations associated with him before he got to USC, while he was recruited and during his one year with the program. The University sold their soul for a scintillating athletic talent; now they have to pay the price. It was a simple case of money trumping ethics. The University wasn't on the edge of the mud pool, they were sunk in the middle of the muck. The school which must be happy over the travails of USC's football program is Tennessee. Lane Kiffin unexpectedly bailed on the program leaving them scrambling for a replacement. Now Kiffin has to contend with the aftermath of the NCAA's sanctions while the Vols are going on their merry way with their in tact program.
KD in CA Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 KD, maybe I'm misconstruing what you're writing but it seems like you were intent on minimizing Carroll's role and instead pointing the finger at the school. I also thought you showed a lack of compassion for the football players. As I said earlier, I believe that Carroll, as the CEO of football, is mostly responsible for the sanctions against the football team. It seemed that you thought it was more the school's responsibility. SJ, I didn't mean to imply that at all, I was just more focused on the school since I do think it's bullsh-- for them to play the "we didn't know what our coach was doing" card. They had a responsibility to know what he was doing and I believe the cheating was part of the overall USC athletic dept culture. To be clear, I agree Carroll was the central figure and most culpable, but the reality is he is free to go find another job as he did. Speaking theoretically about whether that is just or not, I would have no problem whatsoever if the steps you outlined below were enacted: As far as what I would do going forward, I suggested earlier "if the NCAA really wanted to clean up the sport, they could require that the schools include language in coaching contracts providing for sanctions in the case of rules violations." The schools could also then claim a breach of contract and sue the coaches for reimbursement. I think that would be great.
RealityCheck Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 It's gotta be tough being in a broad reaching organization with the well constructed facade of no profit motive, when it is truly all about the money. Like the Roman Catholic Church in the 1500’s As opposed to the Roman Catholic church today? Be careful. Speaking the truth can get you excommunicated from more than the Church these days.
H2o Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Probably one of the more ridiculous statements I've heard on this board. VY was one of the greatest college players ever and should've won the Heisman. David Thomas, Sweed, Crosby and Jamaal Charles were all on that offense. Not to mention they had an Oline of All Americans. On defense they had Crowder, Robinson, R. Wright, Ced Griffen, Aaron Ross and Michael Huff. 13 of their starters were drafted! They beat a very good 4th ranked Ohio State team at the Horseshoe, they destroyed OU and they beat Colorado 70-3 in the Big 12 championship game! How the hell is that a choke? UT was great that year. Up 12 with 6:42 to play and they could not hold the lead equals choke. I'm not knocking that Texas team by any means, all I'm saying is that USC couldn't get it done in the clutch. It was the second best college game I've ever seen behind Boise St. vs Oklahoma. Don't get your panties in a bunch brah.
John Cocktosten Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 Up 12 with 6:42 to play and they could not hold the lead equals choke. I'm not knocking that Texas team by any means, all I'm saying is that USC couldn't get it done in the clutch. It was the second best college game I've ever seen behind Boise St. vs Oklahoma. Don't get your panties in a bunch brah. I see what you're saying now. Let me un-bunch my panties! That game WAS the best football game that I've ever watched. That mighty USC team with 2 Heisman winners riding a 20+ game winning streak. The Longhorns led by one of the greatest college QB's of all time trying to duplicate the Rose Bowl performance from the previous year. So freeking exciting! I always felt like VY was in control of that game and that UT was going to pull it off. They did and it turns out, karma prevailed. That year USC played in 2 other great games, Fresno St. and Notre Dame. The ND game is still in my top 5 favorite football games. That season was so great and as it turns out, USC deserved to lose....to bad the 2010 version of the Trojans lost before the season even starts.
JohnC Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I see what you're saying now. Let me un-bunch my panties! That game WAS the best football game that I've ever watched. That mighty USC team with 2 Heisman winners riding a 20+ game winning streak. The Longhorns led by one of the greatest college QB's of all time trying to duplicate the Rose Bowl performance from the previous year. So freeking exciting! I always felt like VY was in control of that game and that UT was going to pull it off. They did and it turns out, karma prevailed. That year USC played in 2 other great games, Fresno St. and Notre Dame. The ND game is still in my top 5 favorite football games. That season was so great and as it turns out, USC deserved to lose....to bad the 2010 version of the Trojans lost before the season even starts. The collective talent level in that game was astounding. Both teams were loaded with pro prospects. As you noted I never felt that Vince Young could be stopped in that game. He kept making crucial plays all day long. What surprisingly impressed me the most about VY in that game was although he didn't have conventional throwing motion, he was very accurate. It was like he was throwing darts, consistently hitting the bulls-eye. There were many questions about how Vince Young's unique skills would translate to the pro game. He did have some early struggles. Not only did he have to make some adjustments but his pro coaching staff had to make some adjustments in order to utilize his special and different talents. The most impressive stat associated with VY is his winning record. He doesn't look like a standard dynamic passing qb, such as Brees, Peyton and Brady, but at the end of the day he leads his team to a victory. Because of Vince Young I think more pro organizations were receptive to an unconventional player such as Tim Tebow. As with Young there is a necessity for the coaching staff to make adjustments to the unique talents of the player as there is a necessity for the player to make adjustments to the pro game in order to be successful.
Malazan Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 I like how this thread has somehow become a Vince Young / Michael Vick thread.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 The collective talent level in that game was astounding. Both teams were loaded with pro prospects. As you noted I never felt that Vince Young could be stopped in that game… Because of Vince Young I think more pro organizations were receptive to an unconventional player such as Tim Tebow. As with Young there is a necessity for the coaching staff to make adjustments to the unique talents of the player as there is a necessity for the player to make adjustments to the pro game in order to be successful. Excellent argument and excellent writing. Well done.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 USC of the 2000's were one of the greatest teams in the history of college football and there is really no argument. And if you think they were the only team commiting recruiting violations you're crazy. I am convinced that almost every NCAA Div 1 school commits violations. Hell, I went to Purdue, and someone explain to me how Glenn Robinson is driving a brand new red Cadillac and new Jeep around campus? He was from the freakin' projects, for crying out loud.
JohnC Posted June 14, 2010 Posted June 14, 2010 I am convinced that almost every NCAA Div 1 school commits violations. Hell, I went to Purdue, and someone explain to me how Glenn Robinson is driving a brand new red Cadillac and new Jeep around campus? He was from the freakin' projects, for crying out loud. You are never going to completely eliminate boosters or prospective agents channeling money to pro prospects in college. It is like politics money is going to swirl around the scene one way or the other, whether it is legal or not. That doesn't mean that because you can't completely eliminate an illegal act that you are not going to seriously try to contain the money and benefit flow. The Reggie Bush situation was blatant. His parents were living in an upscale house and were not paying any rent. In addition, they were going to all his away games and staying in quality facilities. This was a situation where the recipients of the gifts were not very discrete about their back channel money flow. The Mayo fiasco at USC was also very blatant. Everyone knew that he was receiving illegal benefits when he was playing at his multiple HS, prep schools and AAU teams. The college coach was a sleazy shyster who was either in on or had direct knowledge of him receiving hard cash while at USC. Most high profile athletic departments will claim that they can't watch all their players in their multiple sport programs. That is certainly true. But there are certain high octane players where even the ostrich programs know that these particular pro caliber players are susceptible to being illegally compensated.
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