John Cocktosten Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 It's just as much on him and his family to evaluate a guy like Carroll and use their judgment as to how scrupulous he is in running his program. If you ask me, it's been fairly clear what kind of guy Carroll is, and what his priorities are (namely, himself) for a long time. Not really, The guy was a God in LA. 60 minutes and ESPN have done fluff peices on him about how he helps out the community and is involved heavily in charities. Are an athlete's parents supposed to hire a PI anytime a kid is offered a scholarship? Isn't that the AD's and university presidents's job? Plus, I think you're missing our point. It's incredibly unfair to punish the players while the coach is able to walk away unscathed. Why shouldn't Carroll be held accountable? How about the kids on USC who grew up fans and have been committed since 10th grade? I know the NCAA is in a tough spot as far as punishing USC, but they need to do something about holding the Coaches /staff responsible. They also could have wrapped up this investigation before recruiting season so the incoming players had a chance to switch commitments.
H2o Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Hooray!!! This will hurt them in recruiting for the next couple of years, ESPN won't be able to slob all over them because their NC hopes are basically dashed for the next two years, and hopefully this means less overall coverage for the most overhyped school in College Football.
John Cocktosten Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Hooray!!! This will hurt them in recruiting for the next couple of years, ESPN won't be able to slob all over them because their NC hopes are basically dashed for the next two years, and hopefully this means less overall coverage for the most overhyped school in College Football. I am not a USC fan at all. Actually, I can't stand them! But how could you possibly call them overhyped? Since '02, they have 2 National Championships and played in another NC game (VY's performance was the greatest in NC history and they lost on what was basically the last play). Since '02 USC finished no worse than #4 in the final poll (besides last year when they had a TF QB). From 02-08 they played in 7 straight BCS games (3 of them NC games) and went 6-1 destroying every team that they played. 3 Heisman trophy winners and a ton of All Americans. USC of the 2000's were one of the greatest teams in the history of college football and there is really no argument. And if you think they were the only team commiting recruiting violations you're crazy. So I guess my question is, how were they overhyped?
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 I am not a USC fan at all. Actually, I can't stand them! But how could you possibly call them overhyped? Since '02, they have 2 National Championships and played in another NC game (VY's performance was the greatest in NC history and they lost on what was basically the last play). Since '02 USC finished no worse than #4 in the final poll (besides last year when they had a TF QB). From 02-08 they played in 7 straight BCS games (3 of them NC games) and went 6-1 destroying every team that they played. 3 Heisman trophy winners and a ton of All Americans. USC of the 2000's were one of the greatest teams in the history of college football and there is really no argument. And if you think they were the only team commiting recruiting violations you're crazy. So I guess my question is, how were they overhyped? Beat me to it.
John Cocktosten Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Beat me to it. Bills fans can't come to grips with the fact that teams are supposed to win. Hate em or not, they were and will remain a great team.
H2o Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 I am not a USC fan at all. Actually, I can't stand them! But how could you possibly call them overhyped? Since '02, they have 2 National Championships and played in another NC game (VY's performance was the greatest in NC history and they lost on what was basically the last play). Since '02 USC finished no worse than #4 in the final poll (besides last year when they had a TF QB). From 02-08 they played in 7 straight BCS games (3 of them NC games) and went 6-1 destroying every team that they played. 3 Heisman trophy winners and a ton of All Americans. USC of the 2000's were one of the greatest teams in the history of college football and there is really no argument. And if you think they were the only team commiting recruiting violations you're crazy. So I guess my question is, how were they overhyped? They won a single BCS title, got a split from the AP when LSU won the BCS, and choked against the VY led Longhorns. Every year it's been "USC this, USC that, USC is far better than everyone else......." Even when they lost it was like shock and awe and endless excuses from all of the slobalysts on ESPN. The biggest crock was when ESPN was doing the "Greatest Historic College Football Teams" face off, or whatever it was, and the USC team for that year either placed second in all of history or won out on their show. I can't remember, but I do remember that was the same year they lost to Texas in the title game. Like I said, for years they were just handing them the title without them even taking the field. Atleast for two years now they'll be watching it at home like everyone else and Carroll is now gone. Life is good.
KD in CA Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 SC is not innocent in this. But Carroll was contracted by the school to run the program and he was the Chief Executive of Football. If I'm apportioning blame, Carroll gets the biggest percentage. The school was lax in oversight, they get a smaller amount of blame. And yes, Barkley is free to transfer…after sitting out a year of his life and watching the coach that recruited him and that he wanted to play for, leave. Meanwhile, Carroll gets to sign a 5 year, $33 million contract to coach in the pros, and leave the school and the players to pay the penalty for his breaking of rules. Is this your idea of justice, KD? And you think that John Cocktosten has flawed logic? You might have to explain yourself a bit more clearly. You guys are missing the point by getting hung up on Carroll and the completely irrelevant fact that he now has an NFL job. What does his contract with Seattle have to to with anything? Would you be less outraged if he was pumping gas for minimum wage? Unless he broke some actual laws and you are suggesting he be tried in criminal court, Carroll is old news. If the NCAA wants to ban Carroll from ever working in college football again, that's fine, but it doesn't address the issue that USC cheated. USC is being punished because the program broke the rules. Not just Carroll, but the whole program. Carroll was acting as an employee/agent of that program and those in charge of it were/are responsible for his actions. What are you guys suggesting, that a college program can cheat all it wants, and as long as it switches coaches every time it get caught there is no penalty??? As for players caught in a bad situation, guess what? Life isn't fair. Some guys go to a program where the coach quits or gets fired. Some guys go to a school where the coach promised them they would be a starter and then find out another player was recruited for the same position. It sucks for them too. They are all free to pursue a college career at another school; that is their out from a bad situation.
Cornerville Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 I agree, but I really don't know what else they can do. Forfeiting games that happened years ago doesn't seem to do much. And while Carroll was the coach there when things happened, we don't even know the extent of what happened or his involvement, even if it was just to look the other way. Alumni can be as bad as anything the coach does, and players know better, too, no matter how young they are. I have yet to hear what a fair punishment would be for a school who is caught cheating a few years after the fact. How about this as a consideration? Bowl eligible, but all the revenue they make is taken away from the school.
John Cocktosten Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Would you be less outraged if he was pumping gas for minimum wage? USC is being punished because the program broke the rules. Not just Carroll, but the whole program. As for players caught in a bad situation, guess what? Life isn't fair. Some guys go to a program where the coach quits or gets fired. Some guys go to a school where the coach promised them they would be a starter and then find out another player was recruited for the same position. It sucks for them too. They are all free to pursue a college career at another school; that is their out from a bad situation. It has nothing to do with the money but it was like he was rewarded for cheating without repercussions. Not sure what pumping gas has to do with anything. Carroll WAS the USC football program. How can you even argue that fact? There is zero correlation between what is going on at USC and your examples. If a kids not good enough to play, then he's not good enough play regardless of what he's told. If a guy gets fired or quits, does that make the team ineligible for bowl games (which are a reward to the athlete for working hard)? I like what RaiderEast said, strip the school of the money and let the kids play. As far as the NCAA is concerned, this team didn't do anything wrong yet they are paying for the 2004 teams transgressions. There is not one player on the current roster who played on that team BTW. Lastly, why couldn't the NCAA speed things up and get this done years ago? This happened in '04! They should have at least had it done before Feb 1st on signing day.
Captain Caveman Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 It makes no sense that a team that he doesn't coach anymore has to pay for his sins. The NCAA is so ass backwards it makes me sick. It's unreal that Matt Barkley will probably never play in a bowl game again. In College Athletics, the school (Dean) and athletic director are responsible for the compliance of all of the athletic programs. So a coach leaving really doesn't change anything.
Malazan Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 If only he had learned to cheat when he was on the Patriots. I'm sure the organization there would have put a stop to it though.
KD in CA Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Carroll WAS the USC football program. How can you even argue that fact? You're right, I can't possibly argue with a statement as obtuse as that one. USC didn't even have a football program before Pete Carroll, did they? Ditto for Texas w/ Mack Brown I suppose.
Steely Dan Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Every recruit has to know their coach may leave for the right deal in this day and age. Just as an incoming college student has to accept the possibility that the prof they wanted to study with might be so good that he/she gets better offers and departs. Barkley has plenty of options. It's just as much on him and his family to evaluate a guy like Carroll and use their judgment as to how scrupulous he is in running his program. If you ask me, it's been fairly clear what kind of guy Carroll is, and what his priorities are (namely, himself) for a long time. The major difference there is that if the student has enrolled for the fall semester and the prof. leaves then they can transfer somewhere else in the Spring and not have to wait a year.
VanCity Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Carroll's crash and burn in Seattle is inevitable. Leopards don't change their spots. What happened in New York and New England will happen again in Seattle. Unfortunately for him, I don't think he'll find a home in Division I college football after it. This is the sort of thing that gets you blacklisted by ADs and school administrations. They tend to have long memories. So while it appears Carroll has avoided penalty, its simply taking a raincheck for later. While true, I wish I could take a raincheck for $33million. I have the "priviledge" to enjoy cheering for two teams in the NFL. The first and foremost is the Bills. The second, due to proximity and access to games, is the Seahawks. When Carroll was announced, many Hawks fans were ecstatic. I was not one of them. The choke sign incident and the way in which he was able to recruit the top recruits on an annual basis always led me to believe that he is underhanded and does not believe that the rules apply to him. In Seattle, he is in for a rude awakening. One of the major issues is that, on paper, the Hawks have improved as much as any team in the NFL this offseason on the field. The issue will be the jackass roaming the sidelines.
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 They won a single BCS title, got a split from the AP when LSU won the BCS, and choked against the VY led Longhorns. Every year it's been "USC this, USC that, USC is far better than everyone else......." Even when they lost it was like shock and awe and endless excuses from all of the slobalysts on ESPN. The biggest crock was when ESPN was doing the "Greatest Historic College Football Teams" face off, or whatever it was, and the USC team for that year either placed second in all of history or won out on their show. I can't remember, but I do remember that was the same year they lost to Texas in the title game. Like I said, for years they were just handing them the title without them even taking the field. Atleast for two years now they'll be watching it at home like everyone else and Carroll is now gone. Life is good. They were handed the title? You mean they were ranked number one or close at the beginning of the season? Gee, I wonder why.... Guess you didn't see the USC-Texas title game. You missed one of the greatest title games ever. Overhyped? That would be Notre Dame, followed closely by Ohio State.
VanCity Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Although I grew up cheering for Notre Dame, it was mainly due to them being the team my uncles were cheering for. I really have never understood all of the hype behind them though. They are constantly starting the year in the top 25 and ending the year in turmoil. They haven't exactly produced a line-up of all-pros in the last 10 years. Their coaches are under immense pressure to win and recruiting, while much heralded, has come up with consecutive decades of mediocrity. It must be the Catholics supporting the major Catholic university in the country. I guess that's where this. Polish Catholic kid got into it. My point is that the Irish are unbelievably over-hyped and I'm just a cog in the machine.
John Cocktosten Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 USC didn't even have a football program before Pete Carroll, did they? Well you just proved my point then didn't you?
Doc Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 USC is a great college program. If anything is overhyped, it's the players coming out of it.
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