mike oxhurtz Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I was listening to the announcers on MNF and they called out Evans on that play. Yes, it was a bad throw by Edwards, but Evans could have at least jumped up and put his arm between the defenders arms and try and knock it away, or at the very least, try tackling the defender that way there was no gain on the INT. Why are you still posting? Didn't C. Biscuit & Mike Oxhurtz call you out? Still afraid to accept their bets? Jerry, this guy has no credibility. He likes to talk like he's a "know it all" but is afraid to back it up. He's a joke, don't waste your time on him. You're right about that play, Evans could have jumped up and attempted to bat away the pass or make the tackle but he didn't even attempt to. Were the lights from RWS in his eyes? Didn't Evans see the ball? I still don't get why Evans didn't even attempt to make a play on that pass.
mike oxhurtz Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 For your info, I offered to take one of them up on their offer, but haven't heard back-not sure who the other one is, I guess their internet muscles went limp. You shouldn't worry about why someone else is posting, when you post stupid stuff like you are, you should be the one not posting anymore. I haven't been called out for anything, I am in the majority thinking the Bills will be in the top ten picks in the 2011 draft, if that is calling out, you need a life. You have been called out more on this post than I have in my entire life. Did you accept my offer or C. Biscuits offer? (My offer, the Bills won't draft in the Top 10 in 2011). The last I heard from you was if I was going to live up to my word and pay up and I clearly stated my conditions. The winner sends the loser their address in a personal message here on TBD. The loser mails a $100 money order. I have yet to hear from you.
John Cocktosten Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 thats true. . .On Lee, I gues we will have to agree to disagree. I know we can agree on this. Here is to hoping that this year Lee can prove he can be a number 1 in this league Hey man, if Gailey is the offensive genius that so many say he is, then he WILL work Lee from the slot and put him in motion. Maybe a hitch or two to see what he's got. If Lee thrives than I will gladly eat my words. Again, I like Lee as a person and a player so I hope he turns into the best! Cheers!
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I don't base a #1 WR only only his size, but mainly by his production on the field. IMO, the best short #1 WR in the league is Steve Smith. How many times have we've seen from Evans where he'll have 1 good game followed by 3-4 games where he catches 2-4 balls per game and has minimal yards? A lot of times. IMO, the only coach that really knew how to effective use Evans was Mike Mullarkey (I'm not saying Mularkey was a good HC, just had a good offensive mind). Mularkey had Evans lined up all over the field so he could get open. Once Jauron came in, the offense was bland, predictable and Evans was primarily lined up on the outside. I like Evans, he's a classy player and is a great deep threat, but he's not a #1 WR. Maybe Gailey can put Evans is better spots this season to be more productive? Steve Smith is a great example of a #1 WR who is basically the same size as Evans. I been acutely aware of his performance over the seasons. The question I will ask is, "How did Steve Smith look like Jake Delhomme was struggling? He looked terrible. A shadow of himself. Delhomme at least had an arm and would throw the ball deep. You swap out Steve Smith for Lee Evans on our teams the last 2+ years and you would see exactly the same sort of performance.
Conch Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 There are two types of people on this board. Those that see Lee for what he has become (overpaid and unproductive) and those that see what he used to be (very productive). We'd all like to see him become productive. But until he produces the jury is out big time on this dude and I for one see a marked difference once he took the big pay day. Go check the dates and the before and after stats. Could it be that Capt Check-down check-downed because Lee wasn't getting open?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 T.O. was our number one last year and Lee was #2. This year Lee should be #1 and we will see... Anywhere else? Since there is no tangible measurable other than performance, which has been cited as irrelevant, all we really know is his 40 time and stats from that one year where there were apparently no excuses, which makes it hard to speculate what type of player he would be with Manning or Brees. I can never understand the excuse factory. Is there a wing in canton for the players that should've been great but they had too much adversity to deal with? Lee is reported to be a great locker room guy and all but the only thing he has proven elite to date is his paycheck.
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 It's CLEAR that Lee Evans can't get open underneath or on crossing routes or play from the slot. It's CLEAR that unless Lee Evans is catching the ball 4 yards behind the defense his run-after-catch skills are lacking. It's CLEAR that his best asset is a shot or two downfield per game. It's also CLEAR that elite #1's like Johnson, Fitzgerald, Moss, Marshall, Wayne, S.Smith are guys who pose a threat everywhere on the field , not just deep......are we CLEAR now? I do think Lee is a very good #2 and would be a great compliment to any of those #1's, but he's a one trick pony and CLEARLY NOT a #1. What you fail to realize is the WR you mention are able to free up the underneath stuff because their QBs can get them the ball deep. Do you see how that works? Defenses pack it in on us because Edwards doesn't throw deep and Jauron's offenses were about as imaginative and aggressive as 1950's football passing. It's funny that you mention underneath and crossing routes. Those are throws Edwards doesn't have the zip on the ball to make. There are 5 other WR and 4 TEs on this team. How many underneath crossing routes did they run? TO one of the best crossing route WR in the game didn't get those routes for us last year. Do you want to blame all of that on Lee Evans too or do you want to open your eyes and see that as an offense we didn't call those plays because Edwards can't throw them? Also take a look at the WR you mentioned. ALL...repeat ALL of them have QBs with big arms that would throw the ball down field. How can you possibly compare guys in those situations to what Evans has had to put up with wasting his time in Buffalo with Trent?
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 For your info, I offered to take one of them up on their offer, but haven't heard back-not sure who the other one is, I guess their internet muscles went limp. You shouldn't worry about why someone else is posting, when you post stupid stuff like you are, you should be the one not posting anymore. I haven't been called out for anything, I am in the majority thinking the Bills will be in the top ten picks in the 2011 draft, if that is calling out, you need a life. You have been called out more on this post than I have in my entire life. The only one posting stupid posts is you. All your posts are about how bad the Bills suck, how they will be the worst team in the league and draft at #1. If you think the Bills are gonna be that bad, then why even bother posting here? Does posting your negativity make you feel better? Get a life already you loser! I get it, you're a huge Lee Evans fan, there's nothing wrong with that. I've clearly pointed out that Evans is not a true #1 WR and stated the reasons why. Evans is a #2 WR and there's nothing wrong with that.
Magox Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I believe reasonably objective people would say that for roughly half the teams in the NFL he'd be a #1 and for the most others he'd be the #2, for Arizona he'd be the #3
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Folks, this debate is getting old. Without trying to sound like the end-all, be-all authority on the subject, it comes down to this IMO: During Evans' tenure as a Bill, there have been a mere two seasons turned in by QBs that any rational person would consider to be of any quality. Those 2 seasons would be Drew Bledsoe's 2004 season and JP Losman's 2006 season. No other stretch of Bills' QB play comes even close to this level of productivity. Player----Year----Comp.----Att.----%age----Yds----YPA----TD----INT----RAT Bledsoe---2004---256-------450----56.9----2,932---6.5-----20-----16-----76.6 Losman---2006---268-------429----62.5----3,051---7.1-----19-----14-----84.9 During those two seasons, here's how Evans performed: 2004 (rookie, started 11 games): 48 rec, 843 yds, 9 TD 2006: 82 rec, 1,292 yds, 8 TD In last year's debacle of a QB situation, in which Evans caught a mere 2.7 passes per game, the guy still racked up 7 receiving TDs (more than guys like Tony Gonzalez, Calvin Johnson, and Santonio Holmes; and 1 fewer than Sidney Rice and Antonio Gates). Look, he can't throw the ball to himself, and when he's benefitted from even halfway decent QB play, his numbers speak for themselves. It's a sad bit of reality, but it truly does keep coming back to the QB. Spot on. We are TOTALLY on the same page on this subject Bandit.
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I agree 100% Evans as a #2 WR is one of the best in the league, but as a #1 WR he's not even in the Top 20. Please list the 20 you think are better. This should be interesting. LOL
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 There are two types of people on this board. Those that see Lee for what he has become (overpaid and unproductive) and those that see what he used to be (very productive). We'd all like to see him become productive. But until he produces the jury is out big time on this dude and I for one see a marked difference once he took the big pay day. Go check the dates and the before and after stats. Could it be that Capt Check-down check-downed because Lee wasn't getting open? If you watched the games you know the answer is no.
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 The only one posting stupid posts is you. All your posts are about how bad the Bills suck, how they will be the worst team in the league and draft at #1. If you think the Bills are gonna be that bad, then why even bother posting here? Does posting your negativity make you feel better? Get a life already you loser! I get it, you're a huge Lee Evans fan, there's nothing wrong with that. I've clearly pointed out that Evans is not a true #1 WR and stated the reasons why. Evans is a #2 WR and there's nothing wrong with that. You have clearly pointed out nothing. I guess you would call Larry Fitz a #2 if he played for the Bills because he wouldn't have faired any better. Hell look at TO. With both of those guys Edwards couldn't even keep his job. He helped to get his coach fired midseason(should have happened 2 years ago anyway). And has done absolutely 100% nothing on the field to prove he is anything but a backup. The #2 we should be talking about is EDWARDS!!!
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 1 09/14 @ NE L 24-25 3 Rec 25 yds 0 TD 2 09/20 TB W 33-20 1 rec 32 yds 1 TD 3 09/27 NO L 7-27 4rec 31yds 0 TD 4 10/04 @ MIA L 10-38 2rec 60yds 0 TD 5 10/11 CLE L 3-6 2rec 11 yds 0 TD 6 10/18 @ NYJ W 16-13 4rec 68yds 1TD 7 10/25 @ CAR W 20-9 5rec 75yds 1 TD 8 11/01 HOU L 10-31 2rec 29yds 0TD 10 11/15 @ TEN L 17-41 4rec 50yds 2TDs 11 11/22 @ JAC L 15-18 1rec 15yds 0TD 12 11/29 MIA W 31-14 2rec 40yds 0TD 13 12/03 NYJ L 13-19 1rec 38yds 0TD 14 12/13 @ KC W 16-10 1rec 11 yds 0TD 15 12/20 NE L 10-17 3rec 35 yds 1TD 16 12/27 @ ATL L 3-31 5rec 43yds 0TD 17 01/03 IND W 30-7 4rec 49yds 1 TOTAL 44 Rec 612 Yds 7TDs Above is Evans' stats from the 2009 season. 4 games with 1 reception 4 games with 2 receptions 2 games with 3 receptions 4 games with 4 receptions 2 games with 5 receptions 0 games with 6 receptions or more Make up whatever excuses you want for Lee Evans, but the stats don't lie. You expect much more from a player getting $9+ million a year.
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 1 09/14 @ NE L 24-25 3 Rec 25 yds 0 TD2 09/20 TB W 33-20 1 rec 32 yds 1 TD 3 09/27 NO L 7-27 4rec 31yds 0 TD 4 10/04 @ MIA L 10-38 2rec 60yds 0 TD 5 10/11 CLE L 3-6 2rec 11 yds 0 TD 6 10/18 @ NYJ W 16-13 4rec 68yds 1TD 7 10/25 @ CAR W 20-9 5rec 75yds 1 TD 8 11/01 HOU L 10-31 2rec 29yds 0TD 10 11/15 @ TEN L 17-41 4rec 50yds 2TDs 11 11/22 @ JAC L 15-18 1rec 15yds 0TD 12 11/29 MIA W 31-14 2rec 40yds 0TD 13 12/03 NYJ L 13-19 1rec 38yds 0TD 14 12/13 @ KC W 16-10 1rec 11 yds 0TD 15 12/20 NE L 10-17 3rec 35 yds 1TD 16 12/27 @ ATL L 3-31 5rec 43yds 0TD 17 01/03 IND W 30-7 4rec 49yds 1 TOTAL 44 Rec 612 Yds 7TDs Above is Evans' stats from the 2009 season. 4 games with 1 reception 4 games with 2 receptions 2 games with 3 receptions 4 games with 4 receptions 2 games with 5 receptions 0 games with 6 receptions or more Make up whatever excuses you want for Lee Evans, but the stats don't lie. You expect much more from a player getting $9+ million a year. Who was throwing the ball again? Oh ya...that's right ..Cpt Checkdown. There is an extremely simple concept you don't seem to grasp. EVANS CAN'T THROW HIMSELF THE BALL!!! Here are TOs stats for 2009 WITH TWO FEWER TDS!!! Are you going to tell me a first ballot hall of famer 2nd best WR in the history of the game is not a #1 now? Your a joke! WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost 1 09/14 @ NE L 24-25 1 1 2 46 23.0 27 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 09/20 TB W 33-20 1 1 3 52 17.3 43T 1 1 13 13.0 13 0 -- -- 3 09/27 NO L 7-27 1 1 0 0 -- -- 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 10/04 @ MIA L 10-38 1 1 3 60 20.0 39 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 5 10/11 CLE L 3-6 1 1 4 44 11.0 18 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 -- -- 6 10/18 @ NYJ W 16-13 1 1 3 13 4.3 11 0 1 9 9.0 9 0 -- -- 7 10/25 @ CAR W 20-9 1 1 3 27 9.0 18 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 -- -- 8 11/01 HOU L 10-31 1 1 5 39 7.8 14 0 1 29 29.0 29T 1 1 0 9 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 10 11/15 @ TEN L 17-41 1 1 3 85 28.3 46 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 11 11/22 @ JAC L 15-18 1 1 9 197 21.9 98T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 12 11/29 MIA W 31-14 1 1 5 96 19.2 51T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 13 12/03 NYJ L 13-19 1 1 3 31 10.3 15 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 14 12/13 @ KC W 16-10 1 1 2 15 7.5 9T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 15 12/20 NE L 10-17 1 1 2 20 10.0 11 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 16 12/27 @ ATL L 3-31 1 1 4 39 9.8 15 0 1 -4 -4.0 -4 0 -- -- 17 01/03 IND W 30-7 1 1 4 65 16.3 41T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --
thebandit27 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Sorry, but the announcers even called out Evans for not even attempting to jump or fight for the ball. Jerry, you are definitely remembering a different play, or an entirely different game. The play to which you refer was not a jump-ball situation, it was an out-and-up route/bullet-style pass play. It was a well-underthrown ball by Edwards, who was under durress from NT Jay Ratliff at the time of the throw. Newman was positioned between Evans and Edwards, as Evans was a good 3 to 4 yards past Newman at the time of the throw. There's no way the announcers said that Evans jumping would have made even the slightest difference on that play. In fact, let's not leave it up to memory...here: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...ills-highlights (it's at the 2:30 mark of the video) Evans is really supposed to jump and make a play on that ball, while running full speed in the opposite direction? I think not.
thebandit27 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Jerry, this guy has no credibility. He likes to talk like he's a "know it all" but is afraid to back it up. He's a joke, don't waste your time on him. You're right about that play, Evans could have jumped up and attempted to bat away the pass or make the tackle but he didn't even attempt to. Were the lights from RWS in his eyes? Didn't Evans see the ball? I still don't get why Evans didn't even attempt to make a play on that pass. So, after watching the video again (see the link above), can you honestly say that Evans--a WR running full-speed in the opposite direction of Newman--should be able to identify the tipped ball, stop, turn around, and beat the defender to make the play, all before the defender--who is in a back-peddle facing the QB and is in zone coverage--makes his break? If you can honestly say that he should, then I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, because I think that's preposterous.
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Who was throwing the ball again? Oh ya...that's right ..Cpt Checkdown. There is an extremely simple concept you don't seem to grasp. EVANS CAN'T THROW HIMSELF THE BALL!!! Here are TOs stats for 2009 WITH TWO FEWER TDS!!! Are you going to tell me a first ballot hall of famer 2nd best WR in the history of the game is not a #1 now? Your a joke! WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost 1 09/14 @ NE L 24-25 1 1 2 46 23.0 27 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 09/20 TB W 33-20 1 1 3 52 17.3 43T 1 1 13 13.0 13 0 -- -- 3 09/27 NO L 7-27 1 1 0 0 -- -- 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 10/04 @ MIA L 10-38 1 1 3 60 20.0 39 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 5 10/11 CLE L 3-6 1 1 4 44 11.0 18 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 -- -- 6 10/18 @ NYJ W 16-13 1 1 3 13 4.3 11 0 1 9 9.0 9 0 -- -- 7 10/25 @ CAR W 20-9 1 1 3 27 9.0 18 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 -- -- 8 11/01 HOU L 10-31 1 1 5 39 7.8 14 0 1 29 29.0 29T 1 1 0 9 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 10 11/15 @ TEN L 17-41 1 1 3 85 28.3 46 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 11 11/22 @ JAC L 15-18 1 1 9 197 21.9 98T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 12 11/29 MIA W 31-14 1 1 5 96 19.2 51T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 13 12/03 NYJ L 13-19 1 1 3 31 10.3 15 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 14 12/13 @ KC W 16-10 1 1 2 15 7.5 9T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 15 12/20 NE L 10-17 1 1 2 20 10.0 11 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 16 12/27 @ ATL L 3-31 1 1 4 39 9.8 15 0 1 -4 -4.0 -4 0 -- -- 17 01/03 IND W 30-7 1 1 4 65 16.3 41T 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- We can go back and forth all day long, but it's not gonna do any good. I'm sure we can both agree that the last coaching staff was one of the worst in Bills history. The offense over the last 4 years ranked 30th 3 out of 4 years (25th being the highest). Gailey has had a knack for getting the most out of sub-par/average players (Tomczak, Fielder, Stewart, Thigpen). With that being said, let's see what Gailey can do with this offense and most importantly Evans. IMO, you need at least 2 good quality WR's. I liked the combo of Moulds/Price and was really hoping Owens/Evans would have been better. Last year was a major cluster f@ck. I'd love to see one or more of these guys step up and become a big factor in the passing game (Easley, Johnson or Hardy). If Evans has a better year and has more than 1,000 yards receiving and 8 or more TD's, than I'll eat some crow. But if Evans doesn't have a better year, how long will the excuses continue for Evans?
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Jerry, you are definitely remembering a different play, or an entirely different game. The play to which you refer was not a jump-ball situation, it was an out-and-up route/bullet-style pass play. It was a well-underthrown ball by Edwards, who was under durress from NT Jay Ratliff at the time of the throw. Newman was positioned between Evans and Edwards, as Evans was a good 3 to 4 yards past Newman at the time of the throw. There's no way the announcers said that Evans jumping would have made even the slightest difference on that play. In fact, let's not leave it up to memory...here: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...ills-highlights (it's at the 2:30 mark of the video) Evans is really supposed to jump and make a play on that ball, while running full speed in the opposite direction? I think not. I can't check the link out here. I'll have to check it out later and respond back. Thanks for posting a link!
thebandit27 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 We can go back and forth all day long, but it's not gonna do any good. I'm sure we can both agree that the last coaching staff was one of the worst in Bills history. The offense over the last 4 years ranked 30th 3 out of 4 years (25th being the highest). Gailey has had a knack for getting the most out of sub-par/average players (Tomczak, Fielder, Stewart, Thigpen). With that being said, let's see what Gailey can do with this offense and most importantly Evans. IMO, you need at least 2 good quality WR's. I liked the combo of Moulds/Price and was really hoping Owens/Evans would have been better. Last year was a major cluster f@ck. I'd love to see one or more of these guys step up and become a big factor in the passing game (Easley, Johnson or Hardy). If Evans has a better year and has more than 1,000 yards receiving and 8 or more TD's, than I'll eat some crow. But if Evans doesn't have a better year, how long will the excuses continue for Evans? Not to sound like a broken record, but I'd say they'll continue until Buffalo gets a QB that can perform to even an average level in the NFL...like say, equal to JP Losman's 2006 season, in which Evans posted almost the exact numbers you list above.
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