PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 ive never heard anyone of any consequence criticize Edwards arm strength as being particulary "noodly". Is he somewhat shellshocked?..i would consider that fairly understandable considering his lack of pass protection the last few years, not to mention the preseason meltdown of the coaching situation. If you would have preferred to see Losman blindly chucking the ball downfield, that's fine. Obviously that strategy has served JP really well thus far in his career. (eyeroll). what we've had the last few years is a plague of injuries that would have disrailed ANY football team in ANY league. i dont think ANY number of "hands-free" squats would have prevented them. what we need is a little bit of luck to go our way for once. if we had had anything go our way last year, we started out with the talent to win football games, in fact, even as ****ty as it was we nearly had an even record. i think its time to stop scapegoating individual players and start looking at the situation as "a whole"....not as "a-holes" I have never heard anyone of consequence compliment Edwards arm. It is completely obvious. He doesn't throw a good deep ball or deep at all for that matter. Even mediocre armed QBs will go deep with some rainbows with a good spiral on the ball. Edwards' pitiful attempts at deep balls are wobbly under thrown inaccurate ducks! "Blindly chucking the ball downfield"....uh...only to have it land gently in the outstretched hands of Lee Evans for 83 yard TDs. Dude, get a clue. JP put TDs on the board and allowed Lee to be the #1 he is. Unfortunately that was the ONLY thing that JP could do. I would rather take a guy that can do one thing well and put TDs on the board than have Edwards who can't do anything well to put TDs on the board. How well has checking down served Trent's career? If this was any other franchise Trent would have been relegated to the bench or released after last year. True there are many problems on this "TEAM". Unfortunately sometimes people lose sight of the fact that TEAMS are made of INDIVIDUAL teammates. When enough individuals fail it causes the team fail. Sometimes a very important individual team member can fail, and cause the whole team to fail on his own. You might be trying to say that we win and lose as a team. No doubt. Without some of the numerous injuries we had, we would have won more games. I agree 100% if that is what you are trying to say. My point is that the offense is failing and we could have won EVEN MORE GAMES THAN THAT if we had a competent QB. Please skip the shell shocked concussion references. Trent was quoted as saying it had no impact on his play.
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Lee doesn't have to the ability to shed the double-teams like a true #1 WR can. Lee is a very good short, speedy WR, but he doesn't have the size & strength to constantly outleap and outmuscle DB's. Once Lee starts losing his speed, he'll turn into another Peerless Price. Obviously you have a very narrow view of what a #1 WR is. 6'2"+ 215+. Anyone who doesn't fit that mold can't be a #1. I've seen this belief before. Peerless Price wasn't peerless price by his 4th year. I think Lee has had a little more longevity than that and he has done it with ****ty QBs the last 3 years. When Lee Evans starts to lose speed he will be Lee Evans without speed. Peerless Price wasn't half the receiver that Evans is. That is not because Evans is elite but because Price was never that good.
PDaDdy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I seem to remember Lee Evans having good years when Drew Bledsoe was the QB. Hmm maybe having a QB has something to do with it???? The smart ones on this subject should just wink and nod and let the fools go on about how Evans isn't a #1.
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Thats not true. I remember a game against the Jets where a ball was thrown to Evans, it was underthrown and should have been an interception, but Lee went up and stole it out of the hands of the Jets CB. I cant get a video right now because im at work(stupid filters), but i will get it up to prove he can do the things you say he cant. You missed the part where I said "consistently" I never said he couldn't outleap or outmuscle, but Evans can't do it on a consistent basis. That was a good play on Evans part, but since you like to point out one particular play, how about this one: The MNF game vs Dallas where our defense had 6 INT's and Edwards threw a pass to Evans in the endzone, but Evans didn't even jump to fight for the ball to try and prevent the INT and the INT was nearly brought back by the Dallas defense for a TD. Evans didn't even bother to leap, jump or fight for the ball.
Gugny Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 The smart ones on this subject should just wink and nod and let the fools go on about how Evans isn't a #1.
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Obviously you have a very narrow view of what a #1 WR is. 6'2"+ 215+. Anyone who doesn't fit that mold can't be a #1. I've seen this belief before. Peerless Price wasn't peerless price by his 4th year. I think Lee has had a little more longevity than that and he has done it with ****ty QBs the last 3 years. When Lee Evans starts to lose speed he will be Lee Evans without speed. Peerless Price wasn't half the receiver that Evans is. That is not because Evans is elite but because Price was never that good. I don't base a #1 WR only only his size, but mainly by his production on the field. IMO, the best short #1 WR in the league is Steve Smith. How many times have we've seen from Evans where he'll have 1 good game followed by 3-4 games where he catches 2-4 balls per game and has minimal yards? A lot of times. IMO, the only coach that really knew how to effective use Evans was Mike Mullarkey (I'm not saying Mularkey was a good HC, just had a good offensive mind). Mularkey had Evans lined up all over the field so he could get open. Once Jauron came in, the offense was bland, predictable and Evans was primarily lined up on the outside. I like Evans, he's a classy player and is a great deep threat, but he's not a #1 WR. Maybe Gailey can put Evans is better spots this season to be more productive?
thebandit27 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Folks, this debate is getting old. Without trying to sound like the end-all, be-all authority on the subject, it comes down to this IMO: During Evans' tenure as a Bill, there have been a mere two seasons turned in by QBs that any rational person would consider to be of any quality. Those 2 seasons would be Drew Bledsoe's 2004 season and JP Losman's 2006 season. No other stretch of Bills' QB play comes even close to this level of productivity. Player----Year----Comp.----Att.----%age----Yds----YPA----TD----INT----RAT Bledsoe---2004---256-------450----56.9----2,932---6.5-----20-----16-----76.6 Losman---2006---268-------429----62.5----3,051---7.1-----19-----14-----84.9 During those two seasons, here's how Evans performed: 2004 (rookie, started 11 games): 48 rec, 843 yds, 9 TD 2006: 82 rec, 1,292 yds, 8 TD In last year's debacle of a QB situation, in which Evans caught a mere 2.7 passes per game, the guy still racked up 7 receiving TDs (more than guys like Tony Gonzalez, Calvin Johnson, and Santonio Holmes; and 1 fewer than Sidney Rice and Antonio Gates). Look, he can't throw the ball to himself, and when he's benefitted from even halfway decent QB play, his numbers speak for themselves. It's a sad bit of reality, but it truly does keep coming back to the QB.
thebandit27 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 You missed the part where I said "consistently" I never said he couldn't outleap or outmuscle, but Evans can't do it on a consistent basis. That was a good play on Evans part, but since you like to point out one particular play, how about this one: The MNF game vs Dallas where our defense had 6 INT's and Edwards threw a pass to Evans in the endzone, but Evans didn't even jump to fight for the ball to try and prevent the INT and the INT was nearly brought back by the Dallas defense for a TD. Evans didn't even bother to leap, jump or fight for the ball. No offense Jerry, but you have a horribly inaccurate recollection of that play. Edwards threw his only interception of the game at the Dallas' 15 yard line, and it was a pass thrown directly into the chest of Terrence Newman. It was an awful throw on Edwards' part and Evans had absolutely no chance at it. Furthermore, it was Evans who chased down Newman and prevented the defensive touchdown from happening. Very poor choice of an example to support your stance IMO.
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 No offense Jerry, but you have a horribly inaccurate recollection of that play. Edwards threw his only interception of the game at the Dallas' 15 yard line, and it was a pass thrown directly into the chest of Terrence Newman. It was an awful throw on Edwards' part and Evans had absolutely no chance at it. Furthermore, it was Evans who chased down Newman and prevented the defensive touchdown from happening. Very poor choice of an example to support your stance IMO. Sorry, but the announcers even called out Evans for not even attempting to jump or fight for the ball.
WannabeGM Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Looking at the Talent and Depth charts in the AFC EAST alone in the #1 and #2 slots, where does Evans talent level fall?MIA - 1 - Brandon Marshall , 2 - Javon Bess NE - 1 - Randy Moss 2- Wes Welker NYJ - 1 -Santanio Holmes 2 - Jerricho Cotchery When you look at the 3 #1 reciever options above, does Evans fall into a #1 talent category IF the QB's were all on a level playing field. Are there Any #2's on any other teams that you would rather have as our #1 option in the entire NFL? You have Holmes and Cotchery ahead of Braylon Edwards? Really? As for Evans, I believe he is a number 1 WR. Especially on this team.
Brandon Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Rather than the problem, I suspect that Lee Evans is actually the biggest victim of this sorry excuse of a passing game. With a decent QB and coaching that would use him to his strengths, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. Just look at his 2006 season to see what he's capable of. As someone said earlier, he can't throw the ball to himself.
John Cocktosten Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 clearly?....clearly based on what......i believe TO had 5 td's last year, the whole offense was dysfunctional, starting and ending with the offensive line which was CLEARLY decimated by injury, not to mention the lack of experience. Unless you have a QB who has somehow become adept at cycling through coverages, and throwing accurate passes from his back Randy Moss, Santonio Holmes et al, would CLEARLY have suffered the same fate. It would CLEARLY be impossible to determine the abilities of a skill position player under those circumstances, CLEARLY. It's CLEAR that Lee Evans can't get open underneath or on crossing routes or play from the slot. It's CLEAR that unless Lee Evans is catching the ball 4 yards behind the defense his run-after-catch skills are lacking. It's CLEAR that his best asset is a shot or two downfield per game. It's also CLEAR that elite #1's like Johnson, Fitzgerald, Moss, Marshall, Wayne, S.Smith are guys who pose a threat everywhere on the field , not just deep......are we CLEAR now? I do think Lee is a very good #2 and would be a great compliment to any of those #1's, but he's a one trick pony and CLEARLY NOT a #1.
CountDorkula Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 It's CLEAR that Lee Evans can't get open underneath or on crossing routes or play from the slot. It's CLEAR that unless Lee Evans is catching the ball 4 yards behind the defense his run-after-catch skills are lacking. It's CLEAR that his best asset is a shot or two downfield per game. It's also CLEAR that elite #1's like Johnson, Fitzgerald, Moss, Marshall, Wayne, S.Smith are guys who pose a threat everywhere on the field , not just deep......are we CLEAR now? I do think Lee is a very good #2 and would be a great compliment to any of those #1's, but he's a one trick pony and CLEARLY NOT a #1. Thats funny, I think the only time they used him on a crossing route, he went inside on a slant and scored a touchdown. . . The previous coaching staff was a complete disaster. Even other players said the formations and plays were all very much alike and they were not hard to defend. Hard to blame that on Lee.
billsfreak Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Sorry, but the announcers even called out Evans for not even attempting to jump or fight for the ball. I remember them calling out Owens a few times for just throwing up his arms and whining after an interception and not going after the defender. I remember that play and I don't remember the announcers calling out Evans, but stating how terrible the pass was. I am thinking you had different announcers than everyone else had that day. The ball wasn't anywhere near Evans, so how is he supposed to jump or fight for a ball that hits the DB in his numbers?
John Cocktosten Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Hard to blame that on Lee. Agreed about the offense last year but he's played for 4 or 5 OC's and never looked like a #1 other than '06. He's only caught 70 balls once, he's never caught 10 td's and has only broken 1K twice in 6 seasons. He's a great deep threat for sure but he's not great underneath or after the catch regardless of who's offense he's in. We've always thought of him as a #1 because the Bills made him a #1. When have the Bill got anything right in the last 10 years? It's not a knock against him that he's a #2, hell Welker/Boldin/Wayne/Holmes/TJ Housh are/were #2's.
Jerry Jabber Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I remember them calling out Owens a few times for just throwing up his arms and whining after an interception and not going after the defender. I remember that play and I don't remember the announcers calling out Evans, but stating how terrible the pass was. I am thinking you had different announcers than everyone else had that day. The ball wasn't anywhere near Evans, so how is he supposed to jump or fight for a ball that hits the DB in his numbers? I was listening to the announcers on MNF and they called out Evans on that play. Yes, it was a bad throw by Edwards, but Evans could have at least jumped up and put his arm between the defenders arms and try and knock it away, or at the very least, try tackling the defender that way there was no gain on the INT. Why are you still posting? Didn't C. Biscuit & Mike Oxhurtz call you out? Still afraid to accept their bets?
CountDorkula Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Agreed about the offense last year but he's played for 4 or 5 OC's and never looked like a #1 other than '06. He's only caught 70 balls once, he's never caught 10 td's and has only broken 1K twice in 6 seasons. He's a great deep threat for sure but he's not great underneath or after the catch regardless of who's offense he's in.We've always thought of him as a #1 because the Bills made him a #1. When have the Bill got anything right in the last 10 years? It's not a knock against him that he's a #2, hell Welker/Boldin/Wayne/Holmes/TJ Housh are/were #2's. thats true. . . On Lee, I gues we will have to agree to disagree. I know we can agree on this. Here is to hoping that this year Lee can prove he can be a number 1 in this league
mike oxhurtz Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Agreed about the offense last year but he's played for 4 or 5 OC's and never looked like a #1 other than '06. He's only caught 70 balls once, he's never caught 10 td's and has only broken 1K twice in 6 seasons. He's a great deep threat for sure but he's not great underneath or after the catch regardless of who's offense he's in.We've always thought of him as a #1 because the Bills made him a #1. When have the Bill got anything right in the last 10 years? It's not a knock against him that he's a #2, hell Welker/Boldin/Wayne/Holmes/TJ Housh are/were #2's. I agree 100% Evans as a #2 WR is one of the best in the league, but as a #1 WR he's not even in the Top 20.
billsfreak Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I was listening to the announcers on MNF and they called out Evans on that play. Yes, it was a bad throw by Edwards, but Evans could have at least jumped up and put his arm between the defenders arms and try and knock it away, or at the very least, try tackling the defender that way there was no gain on the INT. Why are you still posting? Didn't C. Biscuit & Mike Oxhurtz call you out? Still afraid to accept their bets? For your info, I offered to take one of them up on their offer, but haven't heard back-not sure who the other one is, I guess their internet muscles went limp. You shouldn't worry about why someone else is posting, when you post stupid stuff like you are, you should be the one not posting anymore. I haven't been called out for anything, I am in the majority thinking the Bills will be in the top ten picks in the 2011 draft, if that is calling out, you need a life. You have been called out more on this post than I have in my entire life.
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