The great Rob Johnson

[1billsfan]

The obvious, as Coach55 pointed out, is that Johnson was a loser. 9-17 record on teams better than our current.

 

If you don't like or have given up on TE, fine--it's understandable. But to unfavorably compare him to the worst personnel decision the Bills made in the past 20 years removes any hint at seriousness from your argument.

 

So to an Edwards lover like yourself, a Bills fan is not even being serious if he thinks Rob Johnson was better than Edwards???? Dude, you need to get your face out of Trent's jock and get some air.

 

Newsflash, Trent Edwards IS A LOSER...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...cgi?qb=EdwaTr01

 

He's got a 14-16 losing record, and the majority of those 14 wins are against reeeeaaaaal crappy competition. He is 5-12 in his last 17 games since this pantywaist got flattened in Arizona. I feel bad for that hit maybe being the reason for his lack of balls, but I think he should do Buffalo a favor and retire to go play golf which is his true love and passion. He needs to stop lying to himself. I feel bad for the fans who still think that Edwards is this great QB waiting to break through. He doesn't like football, doesn't like Buffalo and doesn't like the Bills. On top of that the guy is a wussy and throws like a girl. I can't wait till this loser is cut in training camp. It's gonna happen, you watch.

[Mr. WEO]

So to an Edwards lover like yourself, a Bills fan is not even being serious if he thinks Rob Johnson was better than Edwards???? Dude, you need to get your face out of Trent's jock and get some air.

 

Newsflash, Trent Edwards IS A LOSER...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...cgi?qb=EdwaTr01

 

He's got a 14-16 losing record, and the majority of those 14 wins are against reeeeaaaaal crappy competition. He is 5-12 in his last 17 games since this pantywaist got flattened in Arizona. I feel bad for that hit maybe being the reason for his lack of balls, but I think he should do Buffalo a favor and retire to go play golf which is his true love and passion. He needs to stop lying to himself. I feel bad for the fans who still think that Edwards is this great QB waiting to break through. He doesn't like football, doesn't like Buffalo and doesn't like the Bills. On top of that the guy is a wussy and throws like a girl. I can't wait till this loser is cut in training camp. It's gonna happen, you watch.

Hate to ruin it for you, given that great argument you spent all morning thinking up, but I all but gave up on TE last season.

 

Anyway---it's still remains that he has performed better than the disaster that was Rob Johnson. Pantywaist? I will remind you that RJ lost his starting job after an injury he sustained falling on a football.

[Rico]

Ask and you shall receive (I only used Johnson's time in Buffalo)

 

W-L-Comp-Att-Comp%-Yds-Yds/Att-TD-Int-Sacks

Johnson 9-17-401-663-60.5%-4798-7.2-27-17-110

Edwards 14-16-506-826-61.3%-5498-6.7-24-25-58

 

Their stat lines are relatively similar. One glaring difference is Johnson's 110 sacks which was always his demise. If he could actually make a decision, he could have been very dangerous because he had all of the talent. Instead, he is the most sacked QB per dropback in NFL history.

So far, advantage Trent, but it's closer than your post indicates...

 

RJ for career is 12-17, 0-1 in playoffs. 14-16 is better than 12-17.

[Rob's House]

That isn't thinking- it is oversimplifying! Were we in position to beat Tennessee in the playoff game because of Rob Johnson's heroics, or because of Antowain Smith breaking off a long run and great play by our defense. Did we lose to Pittsburgh and miss the playoffs a few years back because Bledsoe stinks or because the offensive line was as soft as the fans complaining about the cold?

 

QB's don't win or lose games. Organizations win and lose games. Games can be won or lost on a simple bad/good bounce of the ball.

 

If you're talking about 1 or 2 games then sure, but arguing that Rob sucks Johnson b/c his team consistently lost across the span of several seasons despite being surrounded by talent (and a team that won consistently when he wasn't on the field across the span of those same seasons) is very reasonable.

[Bill from NYC]

Sorry Edwards fans, Rob Johnson was better...

 

Rob Johnson

Games 26

TDs 27

% 64

INT 17

 

Trent Edwards

Games 30

TDs 24

% 61

INT 25

 

But these Edwards fans will somehow still feel the need to ignore the obvious, ignore what they have witnessed the last two seasons and buy into the moronic thoughts of a bad ex-NFL QB turned bad NFL analyst.

 

Funny how the JP fanboys always exclude wins. Stand up and be proud of thise 10 wins for Losman in 5 years.

[reddogblitz]

I laugh at the suggestion that Trent failed to look down field on plays where had time.

I laugh at the suggestion otherwise. Granted the Bills OLine was not good the last couple of years. But I've gone to several TE games and witnessed for myself receivers OPEN downfield that TE didn't' throw to. You don't see that on TV. But at the game it's painfully obvious. It's also been pointed out by many posters many times.

 

To say that it's not at least 50% TE's fault because he doesn't have time to throw is just over simplification plain and simple.

[1billsfan]

Funny how the JP fanboys always exclude wins. Stand up and be proud of thise 10 wins for Losman in 5 years.

 

This is a thread comparing Johnson and Edwards. I suggest you go get some therapy on your Losman obsession. No matter how many times I've said I was wrong about JP Losman it never seems to sink into your thick skull Bill.

 

I was right about Dick Jauron but I don't feel the need to keep a running personal vendetta against all the Bills fans here who derided my negative opinions about Jauron's skills over the last three years. I frankly don't even remember or care about who was on who's side of the Losman/Edwards debate. They both suck.

 

Get over it buddy. Time to find yourself another hobby.

[Pirate Angel]

Trent Edwards is a good Quarterback....Just not as a full time starter. Unfortunatly we dont have a full time starter that we know of. Pre concussion Trent showed showed promise. I would have liked to see what he could do If he where plugged into a good supporting cast like Mark Sanchez and Ben Rothlisberger. I fear Jauron and company had the promise knocked out of him with poor coaching. I hope he proves me wrong, or Brohm or Levi brown shock us all.

[Orton's Arm]

As a general rule, I feel a player should be evaluated on the basis of his own individual contribution to the team; and not the team's win/loss record. The stats Johnson compiled as a starter were--with the exception of the sacks--very solid. Give that guy pocket awareness and a clock in his head, and he'd be a very good QB. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, Johnson's completion percentage and TD/INT ratio were slightly better than Kelly's; and his yards per attempt average was almost as good.

 

As for Johnson's win/loss record--some of it was due to coaching. For example, in a game against San Diego, the Bills built a modest lead through three quarters of play. Then in the fourth quarter, they began calling a lot of running plays in an effort to kill the clock and end the game. San Diego had really good run defense back then, and they were able to shut down Antowain Smith. Meanwhile, the Bills defense uncharacteristically allowed Ryan Leaf to engineer a comeback; which allowed the Chargers to take the lead.

 

I realize that was just one game. But it often seemed that when Johnson was QB, the Bills lost for reasons other than QB play. The Music City Miracle is another example of such a game. When Johnson walked off the field with 16 seconds left, the Bills had the lead.

 

As for Johnson's supporting cast: the offensive line had very little talent not named Ruben Brown. Everyone else on that line--specifically including John Fina--was a below-average player at his position. Antowain Smith was below-average for a running back, and our TE situation was decent at best. I'll grant that Eric Moulds was a better, more complete WR than Lee Evans; and that Peerless Price was useful as a deep threat. On the other hand, look how Peerless Price's career changed after he left Buffalo! That would suggest that at least some of his success was due to the quality of quarterbacks the Bills had during his tenure here.

 

To have compiled strong-looking stats despite the relatively disappointing nature of his supporting cast demonstrates that Johnson had real talent. Unfortunately the sacks he kept taking overshadowed his many other achievements and his otherwise solid potential.

[clearwater cadet]

I can't believe this dumb Rob johnson post is still going. There more replies to this post then games Johnson started. His trade is the start of what what set this team back 10 years. Could somebody please start some wild rumor so we have somethimg to talk about for the next 3 weeks, instead of this freakin post.

[bbillyfootballcoach]

I laugh at the suggestion that Trent failed to look down field on plays where had time. He faces straight up jailbreaks on 3 plays and people want to know why he looks for the quick dump off on the other 2 where protection held up.

 

The guy sucked last year and lost all of his confidence but the blame has to go to the front office which blew up the offensive line and the coaching staff which went with a down field slow developing passing attack. Keep the 2008 line together - including Dockery who was overpaid but could have provided depth and allowed Wood to play center - and focus on quick passes and Trent's disasterous 2009 would not have happened.

 

ok then you dont watch the games that closely no tivo??? it happened all the time dont laugh, watch it! and he dumps it cuz he has no balls its a way to look OK when you really suck like how rob took sacks instead of incompletes or ints. Man i have seen it over and over just watch the plays closely and dont root for a weener

[bbillyfootballcoach]

this may be an interesting comparison, their first 3 years in the league:

 

Johnson: 368 yds 2 td 3 int 7 sax sack rate 20.0%

 

Edwards: 5498 yds 24 td 25 int 58 sax sack rate 7.0%

 

Favre: 6530 yds 37 td 39 int 65 sax sack rate 6.5%

 

 

Favre's career sack rate ended up at 4.9%, RJ's ended at 14.8%.

 

 

call me crazy, but i see a liiiiiiiiiitle more promise in the 2nd and 3rd guys above.

 

~as

wow you found a way to distort stats what a genius, now edwards is a hair away from being brett farve, that should tell you how much those stats lie, and the fact you skipped Robs years as a starter, jesus ... nice comparison

[bbillyfootballcoach]

So to an Edwards lover like yourself, a Bills fan is not even being serious if he thinks Rob Johnson was better than Edwards???? Dude, you need to get your face out of Trent's jock and get some air.

 

Newsflash, Trent Edwards IS A LOSER...

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...cgi?qb=EdwaTr01

 

He's got a 14-16 losing record, and the majority of those 14 wins are against reeeeaaaaal crappy competition. He is 5-12 in his last 17 games since this pantywaist got flattened in Arizona. I feel bad for that hit maybe being the reason for his lack of balls, but I think he should do Buffalo a favor and retire to go play golf which is his true love and passion. He needs to stop lying to himself. I feel bad for the fans who still think that Edwards is this great QB waiting to break through. He doesn't like football, doesn't like Buffalo and doesn't like the Bills. On top of that the guy is a wussy and throws like a girl. I can't wait till this loser is cut in training camp. It's gonna happen, you watch.

 

HA its so true forget any stats he throws like a girl! no wonder i hate him, maybe he is a girl he plays like one mentally too.

[bbillyfootballcoach]

As a general rule, I feel a player should be evaluated on the basis of his own individual contribution to the team; and not the team's win/loss record. The stats Johnson compiled as a starter were--with the exception of the sacks--very solid. Give that guy pocket awareness and a clock in his head, and he'd be a very good QB. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, Johnson's completion percentage and TD/INT ratio were slightly better than Kelly's; and his yards per attempt average was almost as good.

 

As for Johnson's win/loss record--some of it was due to coaching. For example, in a game against San Diego, the Bills built a modest lead through three quarters of play. Then in the fourth quarter, they began calling a lot of running plays in an effort to kill the clock and end the game. San Diego had really good run defense back then, and they were able to shut down Antowain Smith. Meanwhile, the Bills defense uncharacteristically allowed Ryan Leaf to engineer a comeback; which allowed the Chargers to take the lead.

 

I realize that was just one game. But it often seemed that when Johnson was QB, the Bills lost for reasons other than QB play. The Music City Miracle is another example of such a game. When Johnson walked off the field with 16 seconds left, the Bills had the lead.

 

As for Johnson's supporting cast: the offensive line had very little talent not named Ruben Brown. Everyone else on that line--specifically including John Fina--was a below-average player at his position. Antowain Smith was below-average for a running back, and our TE situation was decent at best. I'll grant that Eric Moulds was a better, more complete WR than Lee Evans; and that Peerless Price was useful as a deep threat. On the other hand, look how Peerless Price's career changed after he left Buffalo! That would suggest that at least some of his success was due to the quality of quarterbacks the Bills had during his tenure here.

 

To have compiled strong-looking stats despite the relatively disappointing nature of his supporting cast demonstrates that Johnson had real talent. Unfortunately the sacks he kept taking overshadowed his many other achievements and his otherwise solid potential.

i was at that game RJ was totally ineffective, Flutie came in and scored 2 tds and then the bills lost a close one, Rj was horrible his everlasting holding on to the ball allowed some big plays nice stats, but killed most drives and had short time of pos. he sucked and cheated us all , trent has done the same , fred jackson dump off is his whole arsenal.

[bbillyfootballcoach]

I can't believe this dumb Rob johnson post is still going. There more replies to this post then games Johnson started. His trade is the start of what what set this team back 10 years. Could somebody please start some wild rumor so we have somethimg to talk about for the next 3 weeks, instead of this freakin post.

 

HAW HAW!

[Orton's Arm]

i was at that game RJ was totally ineffective, Flutie came in and scored 2 tds and then the bills lost a close one, Rj was horrible his everlasting holding on to the ball allowed some big plays nice stats, but killed most drives and had short time of pos. he sucked and cheated us all , trent has done the same , fred jackson dump off is his whole arsenal.

I'm not entirely clear as to which game you're referring to, but Flutie didn't play at all in either the Titans playoff game or the game in which San Diego mounted a comeback against the Bills.

[bbillyfootballcoach]

I'm not entirely clear as to which game you're referring to, but Flutie didn't play at all in either the Titans playoff game or the game in which San Diego mounted a comeback against the Bills.

 

it was Ryan leafs first game ever maybe second look it up. your thinking of flutie when he came back for SD against the bills maybe.

[Orton's Arm]

it was Ryan leafs first game ever maybe second look it up. your thinking of flutie when he came back for SD against the bills maybe.

You are correct. Doug Flutie did play in that game.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

We just had yet another long and heated Doug Flutie/Rob Johnson thread last week.

 

So I don't want to get into that again, BUT this is a Rob Johnson thread.

 

One thing that hasn't been talked about in all our Flutie/Johnson threads is that the Johnson v Flutie matchup that occurred in 2001 (that was just touched upon) was perhaps Rob Johnson's greatest game as a professional quarterback.

 

It was also symbolic of Johnson's career and its juxtaposition to Flutie's.

 

Rob was 24-37 for 310 yards and 1 touchdown and 1 interception. He also uncharacteristically rushed 11 times for 67 yards and 1 touchdown. He was quick, decisive, and resolute in a way that Bills fans never saw from him before or after.

 

Flutie also played a strong game going 21 of 33 for 254 yards and 1 touchdown and running twice for 12 yards and the game-winning touchdown with just over one minute left in the 4th quarter.

 

After Flutie's late-game heroics, I (we) remember Rob Johnson sprinting off the field, refusing to acknowledge Flutie.

 

It was a great football game but because we lost, and because of the principals involved, it was a strange and convoluted memory which I think some of us have partly repressed.

[C.Biscuit97]

To everyone who supported RJ over Flutie, I hate you.

 

 

And my mom's best friend's daughter used to date RJ. Said he was the nicest guy and wonder how he was perceived in

Buffalo. I just avoided the question.