bills_fan Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 They produce recreation. If I drop $3Gs at Sandals, I get a week in the lap of luxury. I get utility. They have provided me a service. I have traded my production for what they provide. Your welfare guy gave me nothing for my production. He just stole it via the government, and then traded it back to me for more of my production. I prefer to think of welfare guys as parasites or leeches, producing nothing, but consuming the lifeblood of the economy.
John Adams Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Oh great. Another turd thread lands in our punchbowl.
Rob's House Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Oh great. Another turd thread lands in our punchbowl. This has been a great thread. I hate it too when someone drops their political BS in the middle of a football thread, but it's a thread that's clearly dedicated to the topic, which is admittedly off topic for the site, but it's been an interesting discussion. If it's not your thing, pass on to the next one.
John Adams Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 This has been a great thread. I hate it too when someone drops their political BS in the middle of a football thread, but it's a thread that's clearly dedicated to the topic, which is admittedly off topic for the site, but it's been an interesting discussion. If it's not your thing, pass on to the next one. Bite me lecture boy.
JinWPB Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 If you believe our government is tyrannical then you are on the political fringe. Your tea bag views are very difficult to digest. When I see elderly people getting medicare coverage and receiving social security checks and then rant about how our oppressive government shouldn't be involved in their lives I sometimes want to laugh and other times cringe. You should be commended for your service. For that I thank you. But your views as you state them are very retrograde. [/quote Actually I was refering to the British empire from which we gained our independence. But perhaps YOU were having a Freudian moment.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Yea the whole help the poor and sick of society is in no way a liberal idea, neither is his idea that the community is more important than the individual, and the belief that religion should be a private endeavor. Helping your neighbor and having the oppressive hand of government FORCE you to "help" your neighbor in the way THEY see fit are two different things. But keep trying to twist theology to meet your needs.
Alphadawg7 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 If he was a whiny little biotch who didn't realize how uber lucky he was to be born into the family he was he might, if he felt that the world owed him something for being born rich he might, if he knew how hard it is to succeed when you have little to start with he might, if he was a lazy son of a B word he might. So I guess he'd have to be a complete ahole first. He doesn't seem like a complete ahole to me. JMO Do you believe people should work hard for the things they have or have them handed to them on a silver platter? Most of this post doesnt even make sense to what you replied to...so I will just disregard it. However, the last sentence is soooooo incredibly ass backwards that I just have to respond to it. It takes an incredible amount of either ignorance or jealousy (or both) to make that statement. For you to assume that because someone inherits something that it translates to them just being handed life on a silver platter and not working hard is pathetic. Not to mention, in many cases the heirs are later on in life themselves and had to make their way through most of their life before they inherited something in the first place. Just because your family did well for itself does NOT mean you as a benefactor are just some slob mooching off the good fortunes of the family. I can name many personal examples of this very thing where the was wealth in the family and individuals went out and built their own wealth before they ever saw a single dime from the family nest egg. And let me tell you something else, I know some people who did come into a sizeable amount money in their younger ages, and guess what, they were broke before they hit 30 because it takes hard work, discipline, and responsibility to take that financial good fortune and not only maintain it but grow it.
MattM Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Most of this post doesnt even make sense to what you replied to...so I will just disregard it. However, the last sentence is soooooo incredibly ass backwards that I just have to respond to it. It takes an incredible amount of either ignorance or jealousy (or both) to make that statement. For you to assume that because someone inherits something that it translates to them just being handed life on a silver platter and not working hard is pathetic. Not to mention, in many cases the heirs are later on in life themselves and had to make their way through most of their life before they inherited something in the first place. Just because your family did well for itself does NOT mean you as a benefactor are just some slob mooching off the good fortunes of the family. I can name many personal examples of this very thing where the was wealth in the family and individuals went out and built their own wealth before they ever saw a single dime from the family nest egg. And let me tell you something else, I know some people who did come into a sizeable amount money in their younger ages, and guess what, they were broke before they hit 30 because it takes hard work, discipline, and responsibility to take that financial good fortune and not only maintain it but grow it. I agree with some of what you said, but have also run into many, many upper middle class and wealthy people who were basically "born on third base and thought they hit a triple" to quote Ann Richards many moons ago. Policy arguments for an inheitance tax include that large inheritances lessen the impetus to be productive and work in offspring of the wealthy and that we want to avoid having a rigid/static class structure, where status and wealth are simply passed down from one generation to the next. That said, I, too, have seen rich kids work their butts off to make something on their own (I recall finding out after graduation that a law school friend of mine was the daughter of folks who are probably billionaires and you would never have guessed that for a second knowing her), but I've also seen more than my share of rich kids acting more like a James Spader character in a John Hughes movie--unfortunately, in real life, folks like that don't often get their comeuppances, but instead get coveted internships and jobs and other connections that help insure success care of mommy and daddy, whether they work hard for them or not.....
Steely Dan Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I didn't say silver platter, but I do want to make things easier for my children than I had it. I'm not sure what deductions are permitted under the estate tax, but $1 million can be reached fairly quickly, especially if the family home is not excluded. And my feelings on taxes are expressed in my signature, from Thomas Jefferson's inaugural address. I think your time would be better spent on working for solutions for the USA and not fantasy land. How long will it take for you to realize spending will almost never go down. Spending is how our government justifies itself. Oh great. Another turd thread lands in our punchbowl. Thanks for stopping by with that inspired post. Helping your neighbor and having the oppressive hand of government FORCE you to "help" your neighbor in the way THEY see fit are two different things. But keep trying to twist theology to meet your needs. If you're a true Christian you should want to help any way you can. Did you donate your stimulus check to charity? If enough people gave to charity there would be no need for social programs. So the reason government has to get involved is because there isn't enough charity to deal with all of the social problems. So forcing you to care is necessary, that is if you really give a flying !@#$ or are just giving Christianity lip service. Most of this post doesnt even make sense to what you replied to...so I will just disregard it. However, the last sentence is soooooo incredibly ass backwards that I just have to respond to it. It takes an incredible amount of either ignorance or jealousy (or both) to make that statement. For you to assume that because someone inherits something that it translates to them just being handed life on a silver platter and not working hard is pathetic. Not to mention, in many cases the heirs are later on in life themselves and had to make their way through most of their life before they inherited something in the first place. Just because your family did well for itself does NOT mean you as a benefactor are just some slob mooching off the good fortunes of the family. I can name many personal examples of this very thing where the was wealth in the family and individuals went out and built their own wealth before they ever saw a single dime from the family nest egg. And let me tell you something else, I know some people who did come into a sizeable amount money in their younger ages, and guess what, they were broke before they hit 30 because it takes hard work, discipline, and responsibility to take that financial good fortune and not only maintain it but grow it. If somebodies parents are millionaires they are being handed a huge leg up on life by that alone. If somebody has worked hard and made it themselves why do they want that money? There are so many trust fund babies in this country it's sickening. Even the children of the rich who work get a a much easier lot in life. So yes it is being handed something on a silver platter. It's incredibly ignorant to think it isn't. JMO If you still don't think it is then get rid of all of your money and start from scratch. That will let you know how fortunate you or those people are. If you come from privilege you have no idea what it's like to choose between food or electricity. There are a lot of problems in this society that way too many people don't give a **** about because it doesn't affect them. If it does eventually affect them then the arms fly up and the whining begins. I'm just waiting for the first conservative here that gets stuck with a $20,000 medical bill that won't be paid by insurance due to pre-existing conditions. I doubt anyone here would have the balls to post about it.
Rob's House Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Bite me lecture boy. Bite your mother, mouth breather
LeviF Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Bite your mother, mouth breather You haven't been around this part of TBD very much, have you?
erynthered Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 . I never, once, heard about FDR's "Second Bill of Rights." Call it socialism. But is every American with a job, an education, and decent healthcare such a bad thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights I just threw up in my mouth. Are you under 30? Are you studing to be a teacher? God I hope not. Some of the posts in this thread are just mind boggling, really!! I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did on the wall. Yes we can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
erynthered Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 You haven't been around this part of TBD very much, have you? He must be a Moran at 3.5% Idiocy?
Alphadawg7 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I agree with some of what you said, but have also run into many, many upper middle class and wealthy people who were basically "born on third base and thought they hit a triple" to quote Ann Richards many moons ago. Policy arguments for an inheitance tax include that large inheritances lessen the impetus to be productive and work in offspring of the wealthy and that we want to avoid having a rigid/static class structure, where status and wealth are simply passed down from one generation to the next. That said, I, too, have seen rich kids work their butts off to make something on their own (I recall finding out after graduation that a law school friend of mine was the daughter of folks who are probably billionaires and you would never have guessed that for a second knowing her), but I've also seen more than my share of rich kids acting more like a James Spader character in a John Hughes movie--unfortunately, in real life, folks like that don't often get their comeuppances, but instead get coveted internships and jobs and other connections that help insure success care of mommy and daddy, whether they work hard for them or not..... The one thing about this equation above is you often reference rich kids...however, the primary heirs are generally middle aged and older people wtih the "kids" of the equation usually getting small amounts of money in comparison to the main beneficiaries, and often that money is released later in life, in portions, or both. So, how someone (like the poster I replied to) can basically imply that heirs are just being handed everything on a silver platter is rediculous when you consider the vast majority of the major benefactors are older adults already settled into their lives. As far as the government taxing to control productivity of offspring of the wealthy...well, the government literally should have NO right whatsoever to control society on a level like that. That is not their place to come in and "control" their lives in a way that they see fit. There is no logical argument that can justify the governments attempts to control the lives of the heirs of wealthy families...it goes againt everything this county is supposed to stand for.
LeviF Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 He must be a Moran at 3.5% Idiocy? Should take him a while to figure out that one.
Alphadawg7 Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 If somebodies parents are millionaires they are being handed a huge leg up on life by that alone. If somebody has worked hard and made it themselves why do they want that money? There are so many trust fund babies in this country it's sickening. Even the children of the rich who work get a a much easier lot in life. So yes it is being handed something on a silver platter. It's incredibly ignorant to think it isn't. JMO If you still don't think it is then get rid of all of your money and start from scratch. That will let you know how fortunate you or those people are. If you come from privilege you have no idea what it's like to choose between food or electricity. There are a lot of problems in this society that way too many people don't give a **** about because it doesn't affect them. If it does eventually affect them then the arms fly up and the whining begins. I'm just waiting for the first conservative here that gets stuck with a $20,000 medical bill that won't be paid by insurance due to pre-existing conditions. I doubt anyone here would have the balls to post about it. Seems to me like you had some rich kids in your school who used to flaunt things or something, because you have a very narrow minded thought process on this. First of all, has it even occured to you that the vast majority of heirs are people in their 40's, 50's and 60's when you are dealing with estates this big and not kids? People of wealth who have had access to great medical care don't routinely die young and often live long fruitful lives (which is how they often build their wealth in the first place). So, the PRIMARY benefactors are adults well on into their own lives, not a bunch of kids. More importantly, you keep knocking people for working hard and providing opporunitites to their children. What is wrong if I work my ass off and make a lot of money so my children (when I have them) have things that I didnt growing up and have the best opportunities in life? That is NOT handing them life on a silver platter. I wasnt a rich kid, but I went out and worked my ass off and now I am going to be in position to retire in a few years and I am only 33 years old. But just because my kids won't have to worry about the electricity bill being paid DOES NOT MEAN they are being handed everything in life. It DOES NOT MEAN they wont have to work hard still and make their own lives. But for you to have an attitude about people who havent had to go through certain hardships because their parents found financial success is mind blowingly stupid...no offense, but it is. You seem to think that the right way to do things is to be poor first then go out and make something of yourself. You talk like if a kid of a wealthy family go outs and makes something of himself then it was because he was "just handed everything on a silver platter", and that is either incredibly ignorant or just straight jealousy. So what happens when that poor kid goes out and makes $20,000,000 by the time he is 35...is he supposed to just give it all away to charity and keep just enough to survive in life so his kids dont get some undeserved breaks in life? I mean WTF...
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 I agree with some of what you said, but have also run into many, many upper middle class and wealthy people who were basically "born on third base and thought they hit a triple" to quote Ann Richards many moons ago. Policy arguments for an inheitance tax include that large inheritances lessen the impetus to be productive and work in offspring of the wealthy and that we want to avoid having a rigid/static class structure, where status and wealth are simply passed down from one generation to the next. That said, I, too, have seen rich kids work their butts off to make something on their own (I recall finding out after graduation that a law school friend of mine was the daughter of folks who are probably billionaires and you would never have guessed that for a second knowing her), but I've also seen more than my share of rich kids acting more like a James Spader character in a John Hughes movie--unfortunately, in real life, folks like that don't often get their comeuppances, but instead get coveted internships and jobs and other connections that help insure success care of mommy and daddy, whether they work hard for them or not..... Your claim that this tax is some sort of social engineering to alter the behavior of rich kids is laughable. Where do you come up with these ideas? Look, the tax is a cudgel used to club votes out of the less informed. The amount of money involved is pretty small compared to the national fisc. What money it does bring in goes into the pile to obtain the vote of some special interest or another. Maybe we can further mimic Europe by replacing the GDP with the GNH ("Gross National Happiness" Index)! That's what countries which produce no income or product resort to to justify their unsustainable welfare state in the face of economic reality.
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Seems to me like you had some rich kids in your school who used to flaunt things or something, because you have a very narrow minded thought process on this. First of all, has it even occured to you that the vast majority of heirs are people in their 40's, 50's and 60's when you are dealing with estates this big and not kids? People of wealth who have had access to great medical care don't routinely die young and often live long fruitful lives (which is how they often build their wealth in the first place). So, the PRIMARY benefactors are adults well on into their own lives, not a bunch of kids. More importantly, you keep knocking people for working hard and providing opporunitites to their children. What is wrong if I work my ass off and make a lot of money so my children (when I have them) have things that I didnt growing up and have the best opportunities in life? That is NOT handing them life on a silver platter. I wasnt a rich kid, but I went out and worked my ass off and now I am going to be in position to retire in a few years and I am only 33 years old. But just because my kids won't have to worry about the electricity bill being paid DOES NOT MEAN they are being handed everything in life. It DOES NOT MEAN they wont have to work hard still and make their own lives. But for you to have an attitude about people who havent had to go through certain hardships because their parents found financial success is mind blowingly stupid...no offense, but it is. You seem to think that the right way to do things is to be poor first then go out and make something of yourself. You talk like if a kid of a wealthy family go outs and makes something of himself then it was because he was "just handed everything on a silver platter", and that is either incredibly ignorant or just straight jealousy. So what happens when that poor kid goes out and makes $20,000,000 by the time he is 35...is he supposed to just give it all away to charity and keep just enough to survive in life so his kids dont get some undeserved breaks in life? I mean WTF... Perfectly said.
meazza Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Rfeynman, you make conner look smart. It's amazing how much you advocate taking what's not yours away from someone. Cheers Commie
John Adams Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 There are so many trust fund babies in this country it's sickening. Right. We're practically overrun with them. Of course at the same time, you're posting how no one has any money. Estate taxes are immoral. You taxed me once when I made the money. You have no right to take what is mine again just because I die.
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