MattM Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Not to mention that it's not a "death tax". It's an "Inheritance Tax" or "Estate Tax". "Death Tax" is a term cooked up by a right-wing pollster/marketer to create anger over inheritance taxes among the middle class in order to assure passage in Congress. Inheritance taxes are normally - well, no, almost exclusively - a concern among the super-wealthy. I am not super-wealthy, I'm not even close. I have no problem taxing the living daylights out of some very rich dude who, frankly, can't take it with him (or her). FWIW, some of the wealthiest folks around (like Warren Buffet, George Soros and Bill Gates (via statements from his father)) are in favor of the inheritance tax, as without it, we run the risk of becoming an oligopoly and since it saps the need for second, third, fourth generation rich kids to be productive and do anything other than waste mommy and daddy's hard-earned money. I'd say we're already a good way there towards being a de facto oligopoly--look no further than the fact that most major candidates for political office tend to be multimillionaires, if not billionaires in some cases, self-funding their own campaigns (or, like Eliot Spitzer, having mommy and daddy doing it for him), or the fact that the largest determinant in how well a child does financially in life is how well-off their parents were socioeconomically (it has a higher correlation than even IQ as per one of my old Columbia sociology profs from the '80s.) While America does indeed have more social mobility than many societies, I still don't think we've come anywhere near our potential in that regard.....
bowery4 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 And yet.. the only way to guarantee the Bills stay in Buffalo is for Ralph to continue living. So, please delete this thread as it's in extremely poor taste and decidedly ignorant. X100 and I don't even like the man much
JohnC Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 So if you didn't go to private schools or had any social networking and yet were able, thorugh hard work over a lifetime, to amass a fortune and then die---it's OK for the govt. to take half of your life savings and worth and give it to others (who are not your family) who didn't earn it? Why is that better? Why is that more fair? Perhaps you son't see the irony of your (bolded) statement. Some people would make the argument that it wasn't fair that the taxpayers payed for the stadium his team played in and dramatically increased the value of his franchise. Some people will argue that it isn't right for the county to pay to maintain the facility he basically owns and runs. No matter how much the estate tax is when the owner passes his beneficiaries will do very well. Just pay the bloody taxes you are supposed to pay and stop whining about it. Mr Wilson and his representatives are very capable of protecting his financial interests both when he is alive and when he leaves the scene. The country is broke. You are basically advocating that the super wealthy should pay less. That is utterly foolish.
K Gun Special Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Some people would make the argument that it wasn't fair that the taxpayers payed for the stadium his team played in and dramatically increased the value of his franchise. Some people will argue that it isn't right for the county to pay to maintain the facility he basically owns and runs. No matter how much the estate tax is when the owner passes his beneficiaries will do very well. Just pay the bloody taxes you are supposed to pay and stop whining about it. Mr Wilson and his representatives are very capable of protecting his financial interests both when he is alive and when he leaves the scene. The country is broke. You are basically advocating that the super wealthy should pay less. That is utterly foolish. Its a talking point really. THe inheritance tax fury is cooked up by the uber rich so right wing people will get upset at the big bad govt. Meanwhile most of the people complaining on here will have their estates pass with negligible tax on their estate if any. They fail to realize that the govt will need to make up the lost revenue should the tax go away, and that will mean more taxes on them. Besides, from what ive heard from people in the know is that Ralph created a shell company that actually owns the franchise and has it set up to avoid all these problems.
MattM Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Its a talking point really. THe inheritance tax fury is cooked up by the uber rich so right wing people will get upset at the big bad govt. Meanwhile most of the people complaining on here will have their estates pass with negligible tax on their estate if any. They fail to realize that the govt will need to make up the lost revenue should the tax go away, and that will mean more taxes on them. Besides, from what ive heard from people in the know is that Ralph created a shell company that actually owns the franchise and has it set up to avoid all these problems. To wit, the ads several years ago talking about people "losing the family farm" or some other small business, which rarely if ever happens at current or even prior estate tax levels (one survey I read said that no one has ever lost the family farm over the estate tax, for ex.). Turns out, those ads were financed by an organization supported by the super-wealthy (many of which were multigenerational wealth beneficiaries it also turned out) who were embarrassed when this was made public.
MattM Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I could never understand the logic of the government glomming a chunk of someone's hard earned money being passed on to their heirs, anyway. Hasn't it already been taxed enough? Actually, in many cases, no, it hasn't (see the example above re: the Bills capital gain). I've also read other articles by economists and tax experts saying the same thing--certain assets, like capital assets, don't get taxed on their gain until realized/sold.
Steely Dan Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 So if you didn't go to private schools or had any social networking and yet were able, thorugh hard work over a lifetime, to amass a fortune and then die---it's OK for the govt. to take half of your life savings and worth and give it to others (who are not your family) who didn't earn it? Why is that better? Why is that more fair? Perhaps you son't see the irony of your (bolded) statement. The people getting the inheritance haven't worked hard for it. Their ancestors did. The person who earned it can't use it anymore. I would think a conservative like yourself would be for taking it all away so people have to earn it and not get a handout. Do you think Ralph should have to pay any taxes on the nearly billion dollar gain in worth for the franchise when he dies? That money has never been taxed. I could never understand the logic of the government glomming a chunk of someone's hard earned money being passed on to their heirs, anyway. Hasn't it already been taxed enough? A lot of it hasn't been taxed at all. The capital gains on any stocks they own and are sold upon death have never been taxed. So no, the government has taxed a lot of it at all. FWIW, some of the wealthiest folks around (like Warren Buffet, George Soros and Bill Gates (via statements from his father)) are in favor of the inheritance tax, as without it, we run the risk of becoming an oligopoly and since it saps the need for second, third, fourth generation rich kids to be productive and do anything other than waste mommy and daddy's hard-earned money. I'd say we're already a good way there towards being a de facto oligopoly--look no further than the fact that most major candidates for political office tend to be multimillionaires, if not billionaires in some cases, self-funding their own campaigns (or, like Eliot Spitzer, having mommy and daddy doing it for him), or the fact that the largest determinant in how well a child does financially in life is how well-off their parents were socioeconomically (it has a higher correlation than even IQ as per one of my old Columbia sociology profs from the '80s.) While America does indeed have more social mobility than many societies, I still don't think we've come anywhere near our potential in that regard..... Shhh, common sense isn't welcome around here. Its a talking point really. THe inheritance tax fury is cooked up by the uber rich so right wing people will get upset at the big bad govt. Meanwhile most of the people complaining on here will have their estates pass with negligible tax on their estate if any. They fail to realize that the govt will need to make up the lost revenue should the tax go away, and that will mean more taxes on them. Besides, from what ive heard from people in the know is that Ralph created a shell company that actually owns the franchise and has it set up to avoid all these problems. Shhh, common sense isn't welcome around here.
Steely Dan Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Actually, in many cases, no, it hasn't (see the example above re: the Bills capital gain). I've also read other articles by economists and tax experts saying the same thing--certain assets, like capital assets, don't get taxed on their gain until realized/sold. I'm getting more and more frustrated with the sheeple who buy the complaints of the uber rich and somehow see them as being victims.
BillsFanInLV Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 A. This may be the saddest post in the history of posting. B. What the !@#$ is up with brain hemmorages lately? Is it fashionable or something? ---Glad somebdy said it.
birdog1960 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 So if you didn't go to private schools or had any social networking and yet were able, thorugh hard work over a lifetime, to amass a fortune and then die---it's OK for the govt. to take half of your life savings and worth and give it to others (who are not your family) who didn't earn it? Why is that better? Why is that more fair? Perhaps you son't see the irony of your (bolded) statement. because the concentration of wealth in this country is patently unfair and unsustainable. at a golf outing yesterday, 19 people payed $100000 each to play 1 hole with nicklaus, palmer and player(it was $1000 to watch). don't you find it obscene that a few can afford to blow what many people use to provide all essentials for 3-4 years in 15 minutes? yes, there needs to be incentive for hard work but it doesn't have to be (nor should it be) multiples of 100's or 1000's in compensation. also, wealth growth is often exponential, not linear and the exponential phase is often aided by bought and paid for public policy..why not have some payback for that at death. the inheritance tax is a moderate move in the direction of financial fairness and the avoidance of class revolt.
JohnC Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Its a talking point really. THe inheritance tax fury is cooked up by the uber rich so right wing people will get upset at the big bad govt. Meanwhile most of the people complaining on here will have their estates pass with negligible tax on their estate if any. They fail to realize that the govt will need to make up the lost revenue should the tax go away, and that will mean more taxes on them. Besides, from what ive heard from people in the know is that Ralph created a shell company that actually owns the franchise and has it set up to avoid all these problems. You are right on that the manufactured inheritance tax outrage is a smokescreen created by the hardcore right wing to promote an anti-tax sentiment. I don't know Ralph's strategy to handle the taxes his estate is obligated to pay when he passes. But rest assured Ralph has hired the best experts available to minimize his tax obligations. If only this shyster owner would have taken the same strategy of hiring the best people available to run the football operations this franchise wouldn't be in the disgraceful condition that it is in.
K Gun Special Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 You are right on that the manufactured inheritance tax outrage is a smokescreen created by the hardcore right wing to promote an anti-tax sentiment. I don't know Ralph's strategy to handle the taxes his estate is obligated to pay when he passes. But rest assured Ralph has hired the best experts available to minimize his tax obligations. If only this shyster owner would have taken the same strategy of hiring the best people available to run the football operations this franchise wouldn't be in the disgraceful condition that it is in. absolutely, its part of the reason you cant have real policy discussions in the country, its all about social issues, the three G's meanwhile most people are voting against their economic interest (which goes beyond simple taxation) Ralph got burned on some business deals early in his career, hes been reluctant to trust outsiders ever since. Hence his hiring pattern over the decades. It boggles my mind that some people really think this man worth millions and the owner of an NFL franchise is simply going to let his assets pass through the govt to let them have their pound of flesh. Ralph is nothing if not a shrewd businessman; this issue was addressed many years ago, which is why theres no real worrying about the team moving from anyone in power.
Assquatch Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 There was a Law and Order about this recently where people were being duped by a "tax adviser" into having their elderly folks with cancer cared for by a homeopathic doctor to guarantee they died in 2010 so his commission would be higher. In one case at the end of 2009 the "tax adviser" insisted on excessive chemotherapy to ensure the patient made it into 2010.
Rob's House Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I'm getting more and more frustrated with the sheeple who buy the complaints of the uber rich and somehow see them as being victims. I'm dissappointed to see this from you, I assumed the Jesus thing was a joke. Not that I'm remotely religious but Jesus was in no way remotely similar to a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm continually frustrated by the sheeple who think the govt is an extension of themselves, and that somehow confiscating the property of those deemed to have too much serves the common good. It's a fantasy.
K Gun Special Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I'm dissappointed to see this from you, I assumed the Jesus thing was a joke. Not that I'm remotely religious but Jesus was in no way remotely similar to a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm continually frustrated by the sheeple who think the govt is an extension of themselves, and that somehow confiscating the property of those deemed to have too much serves the common good. It's a fantasy. Yea the whole help the poor and sick of society is in no way a liberal idea, neither is his idea that the community is more important than the individual, and the belief that religion should be a private endeavor.
BringMetheHeadofLeonLett Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Yeah, well, we all try to do our part. Out of curiosity, are you one of the 4 million Alaskan pilots? I get the transportation side of it, but I've always been kinda amazed by how many people fly up there.
stuckincincy Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 In 2010 Look what you did...the Young Pioneers are on the march again!
Rob's House Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Yea the whole help the poor and sick of society is in no way a liberal idea, neither is his idea that the community is more important than the individual, and the belief that religion should be a private endeavor. I assume this is sarcasm, but liberalism = help sick and poor = Jesus is kind of simple. Jesus said to give of yourself and do the right thing, not to force others to do what you think the right thing is. His religion is based on you the individual having the free will upon which you will be judged. Liberalism, whether you're for or against it, is the abolition of free will to one extent or another. Religion should be a private endeavor isn't an exclusively liberal idea. (I'd actually argue that liberals are all for state religion as long as it is their religion, but that's a whole other thesis in itself)
Gibran Chandan Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 I am not super-wealthy, I'm not even close. I have no problem taxing the living daylights out of some very rich dude who, frankly, can't take it with him (or her).
Steely Dan Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Well, I put this in the wrong thread and moved it here but somebody deleted it. So I'll post it here and delete it from the other thread. A long Mercedes stretch limo pulls up outside of Sheeple's house. A man exits the drivers door wearing a black hat with a highly polished brim. He is wearing a black jacket and black bowtie over a starched white shirt. His crisp black pants hide the upper portions of highly polished black shoes. He walks around to the back passenger door and opens it up. Loud sounds of partying can be heard with raucous laughter. A man emerges in disheveled business dress. He stumbles out of the car holding a glass of champagne. He takes a minute to gain his balance with the help of his Chauffeur. He stumbles up to Sheeple's door and rings the bell. Sheeple: "Can I help you?" Bobby Richass: "Yeah, you sure can. My name is Bobby Richass and my dad died last year." Sheeple: "I'm sorry to hear that. It must have been devastating." Bobby: "Thank you it was. I've heard you're one of the few people who truly understand the plight of the uber rich and so I've come to talk to you. You see the government took half of my fathers estate in taxes last year." Sheeple: "I know I'm working to make people understand how wrong that is." Bobby: "I know dude but, that doesn't help me NOW! !@#$ing dad died at 11:59 December 31st 2009. We kept that bastard alive as long as we could and just one minute shy of no estate taxes the !@#$ dies. Do you have any idea what a six month hospital stay costs!!"(He turns his champagne glass up and drains it and wipes his mouth with the back of his hand.) "So knowing you are a compassionate conservative I'm hoping you'll help me out. I already had to sell the fourth home in Barbados to pay those overtaxing bastards and now I'm very close to not being able to afford the renovation on the third house in Hawaii. Anyway I'm in a hurry." (A young buxom woman rolls down the back window and shouts at him.) Buxom chick: Baaahhbbbbeeee, we're gonna miss the plane!! Bobby: Relax I own the damn plane it isn't going anywhere without us. (He turns back to Sheeple) Look, I need a half a billion dollars to keep my head above water. I know you can't afford that right now but send me a hundred bucks a month and we'll be cool man. I already stopped by another Sheeples house and they agreed to it." Sheeple: "Well sir, I'm not a hypocrite. Let me get my checkbook." Bobby: "Look man I can't wait. I've got people to do places to go." (He snickers at his own joke and flicks a business card into the house.) "Send it to my accountant he'll take care of it. Oh by the way can you just sign this commitment contract first." Sheeple: "Yes sir!" (Smiling he signs the contract) "Hey maybe some time I can come down and see the house in Hawaii." Bobby: "Look guy I'm gonna be honest with you. That's not gonna happen." (He puts the contract in his coat and walks away. He stops and turns around) "Hey are there any other idio..compassionate conservatives in this neighborhood? I don't have time to talk to them but if you could go around to your friend's houses and give them my accountants address I'd really appreciate it." Sheeple: "Yes sir, I'd be happy to do that for you!" (He gives him the thumbs up and smiles.) Buxom chick: "Baaaaahhhbeee!" Bobby: "Jesus Christ can't you wait a minute." (The chauffeur opens the back door, lets Bobby in and then speeds away.) (Sheeple's wife comes up behind him. He tells her what just happened.) Wife: "WHAT THE !@#$ DID YOU JUST DO!! WE HAVE THE MORTGAGE DUE THIS WEEK!!!" Sheeple: (Rolling eyes) "Relax, I'm not writing the check from our savings account it's coming from Jimmy's college fund. Someday Jimmy is gonna make it big through hard work and he'll thank me for it." (Sheeple's wife runs upstairs and grabs a pistol. She runs downstairs and while Sheeple stares blankly into space admiring the great work he's just done she puts the gun against the back of his head and pulls the trigger.) (Cue "Don't stop believing" by Journey)
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