antonio coleman, chris kelsay

[milehiLou]

so glad Bills signed antonio coleman from Auburn as an undrafted f/a, 2x sec sack leader and sec defensive player of the year. 27 sacks and 60 something TFL, he has great field awareness and can close and make the tackle. unsure why he went undrafted, maybe cos hes only 6'1.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUyj73qqOgU

 

on a similar note, to all the people who think Kelsay wont be a good linebacker, he played end, where the main positional focus is to contain....meaning he was supposed to not let anyone get outside of his contain.( note in the coleman higlight video where he is covering a rb on the far side of the field and makes the play) Kelsay often did let rbs get outside or got beat on the inside as he took a direct outside pass rushing line to the qb.

as a pass rushing linebacker he will be better suited to make plays on the qb, rather than contain, which he kinda sucked at

[goynahan]

that is some of the best line domination ive seen in a long time. i almost have no doubt in my mind that coleman will be a stud

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think most everyone would agree that Antonio Coleman was an excellent undrafted free agent signing. No one knows who will be providing the pass rush for the Bills this year and Coleman is a viable candidate to bolster this crucial area…especially if others fail.

 

As for Kelsay, he said he would play at the same weight as last year, 260-265 lbs. and claims to be working on moving in space. But I too have grave reservations about his ability to play outside linebacker. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Like the OP mentions, Kelsay is a master at losing outside containment and is consistently fooled on misdirection and things like naked bootlegs. I actually think he might be a better candidate for ILB as he would have the size and experience in taking on O-linemen that inside backers need in the 3-4.

 

His marginal mobility as a linebacker would be less of an issue inside than outside on the edge, zoning against tight ends and slot receivers, IMO.

[Cynical]

so glad Bills signed antonio coleman from Auburn as an undrafted f/a, 2x sec sack leader and sec defensive player of the year. 27 sacks and 60 something TFL, he has great field awareness and can close and make the tackle. unsure why he went undrafted, maybe cos hes only 6'1.

 

6'2", 255 lbs., 4.85 s in the 40

 

Classic NFL level tweener.

 

Not really big and strong enough to play DE and has borderline speed and quickness to be a pass rushing OLB.

Seemed to give up on plays.

[milehiLou]

I think most everyone would agree that Antonio Coleman was an excellent undrafted free agent signing. No one knows who will be providing the pass rush for the Bills this year and Coleman is a viable candidate to bolster this crucial area…especially if others fail.

 

As for Kelsay, he said he would play at the same weight as last year, 260-265 lbs. and claims to be working on moving in space. But I too have grave reservations about his ability to play outside linebacker. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Like the OP mentions, Kelsay is a master at losing outside containment and is consistently fooled on misdirection and things like naked bootlegs. I actually think he might be a better candidate for ILB as he would have the size and experience in taking on O-linemen that inside backers need in the 3-4.

 

His marginal mobility as a linebacker would be less of an issue inside than outside on the edge, zoning against tight ends and slot receivers, IMO.

 

 

i see him in the mold of bryce paup, not at all suited for coverage, but a possible terror when the only focus will be getting to the qb...... and ilb is an interesting option at least on goal line situations,

[Thurman#1]

so glad Bills signed antonio coleman from Auburn as an undrafted f/a, 2x sec sack leader and sec defensive player of the year. 27 sacks and 60 something TFL, he has great field awareness and can close and make the tackle. unsure why he went undrafted, maybe cos hes only 6'1.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUyj73qqOgU

 

on a similar note, to all the people who think Kelsay wont be a good linebacker, he played end, where the main positional focus is to contain....meaning he was supposed to not let anyone get outside of his contain.( note in the coleman higlight video where he is covering a rb on the far side of the field and makes the play) Kelsay often did let rbs get outside or got beat on the inside as he took a direct outside pass rushing line to the qb.

as a pass rushing linebacker he will be better suited to make plays on the qb, rather than contain, which he kinda sucked at

 

 

 

I wish people would stop linking to that. The music is annoying and it keep showing the same play over and over.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

6'2", 255 lbs., 4.85 s in the 40

 

Classic NFL level tweener.

 

Not really big and strong enough to play DE and has borderline speed and quickness to be a pass rushing OLB.

Seemed to give up on plays.

You seem to be quoting some scouting report(s)?

 

But have you watched his videos? There's at least 10 minutes of AC on Youtube and it's very impressive IMO. The scouting reports say he gives up on plays? Maybe. But it's hard to believe.

 

My impressions from the 65-70 plays I've seen are that he's a high-effort player who plays with intensity and a lot of swagger. He seems like the emotional leader of the Auburn defense and on the downside, a guy who might get a few unsportsmanlike conduct and personal foul penalties from time to time.

 

Also very obvious from the video is that he's a very smart ballplayer. He was "sniffing out" screen passes, made a great "stay at home" play against a reverse gimmick pass play, and had very good vision and instincts throughout the videos.

 

I liked that he seemed to have a great game against Alabama and made some great plays against LSU, two of the conference powerhouses.

 

Also, he has football speed. He appears to bend the corner very nicely (there's still no measurement for that speed--curling around on an outside rush) and use his hands well. He plays on the left side but can also rush from the right side and has both inside and outside pass rushes.

 

Yes, he was undrafted, is a bit short and doesn't have good timed speed.

 

Like another undrafted, short player who ran in the 4.85 range coming out, James Harrison, I think Antonio Coleman could develop into an excellent NFL player.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

i see him in the mold of bryce paup, not at all suited for coverage, but a possible terror when the only focus will be getting to the qb...... and ilb is an interesting option at least on goal line situations,

Interesting. Kelsay as Bryce Paup.

 

I was seeing him more as more of a Matt Millen type ILB.

[milehiLou]

You seem to be quoting some scouting report(s)?

 

But have you watched his videos? There's at least 10 minutes of AC on Youtube and it's very impressive IMO. The scouting reports say he gives up on plays? Maybe. But it's hard to believe.

 

My impressions from the 65-70 plays I've seen are that he's a high-effort player who plays with intensity and a lot of swagger. He seems like the emotional leader of the Auburn defense and on the downside, a guy who might get a few unsportsmanlike conduct and personal foul penalties from time to time.

 

Also very obvious from the video is that he's a very smart ballplayer. He was "sniffing out" screen passes, made a great "stay at home" play against a reverse gimmick pass play, and had very good vision and instincts throughout the videos.

 

I liked that he seemed to have a great game against Alabama and made some great plays against LSU, two of the conference powerhouses.

 

Also, he has football speed. He appears to bend the corner very nicely (there's still no measurement for that speed--curling around on an outside rush) and use his hands well. He plays on the left side but can also rush from the right side and has both inside and outside pass rushes.

 

Yes, he was undrafted, is a bit short and doesn't have good timed speed.

 

Like another undrafted, short player who ran in the 4.85 range coming out, James Harrison, I think Antonio Coleman could develop into an excellent NFL player.

also production cannot be ignored, especially in the SEC which is considered to be the best conference in college football today, the other intangible that cannot be measured along with corner bend speed, is heart and desire. seems to have that despite what the "experts" say.....

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well I'm really pulling for Antonio Coleman to make the team but with the signing of Reggie Torbor to a 2-year contract, his mission just became more difficult.

 

Torbor is also an outside linebacker and is ironically, a product of the same school, Auburn, as is Coleman.

 

Also, Torbor has also been an excellent special teams player in his career.

[Pilsner]

Well I'm really pulling for Antonio Coleman to make the team but with the signing of Reggie Torbor to a 2-year contract, his mission just became more difficult.

 

Torbor is also an outside linebacker and is ironically, a product of the same school, Auburn, as is Coleman.

 

Also, Torbor has also been an excellent special teams player in his career.

 

 

I Really hope Coleman pans out as well. It's just my wild guess but I'm thinking Torbor was signed because the Bills have a slight hint that maybe Schoebel might not return. Only time will tell.

[Fixxxer]

Well I'm really pulling for Antonio Coleman to make the team but with the signing of Reggie Torbor to a 2-year contract, his mission just became more difficult.

 

Torbor is also an outside linebacker and is ironically, a product of the same school, Auburn, as is Coleman.

 

Also, Torbor has also been an excellent special teams player in his career.

 

I think he was an OLB with 4-3 Giants. With the Phins and under Edwards tutelage Torbor was the back-up ILB for Ayodele and Crowder. I think this means the end of the line for Ellison. (back-up ILB)

[Thoner7]

Interesting. Kelsay as Bryce Paup.

 

I was seeing him more as more of a Matt Millen type ILB.

 

I see him as more of a cut line backer, if you know know I mean.

 

Coleman on the other hand is a huge question mystery. I have to think there is an off the field reason he didnt get drafted. I mean the guy dominated the SEC, and who cares if he is shorter. Brandon Graham was drafted very high and he is 6'2''

 

I am still holding out for the tony wash signing

[bills1960]

I really like Coleman. Yes, he is a textbook NFL tweener, but its not like a guy his size hasn't turned into a star before. James Harrison is 6'0 242, a full two inches shorter than Coleman and he had 10 sacks last year and 16 sacks the year before. I'm not saying he's the next harrison, but it's hard to deny the SEC sack leader and tfl leader in 2009.

[eball]

Kelsay is history. I wish him no ill will; just have a feeling.

[ChasBB]

so glad Bills signed antonio coleman from Auburn as an undrafted f/a, 2x sec sack leader and sec defensive player of the year. 27 sacks and 60 something TFL, he has great field awareness and can close and make the tackle. unsure why he went undrafted, maybe cos hes only 6'1.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUyj73qqOgU

Only time will tell, but definitely got to like what you see in this video. The guy definitely makes his presence felt. Oh, and yet another fine audio selection to accompany the video.

[Zona]

I think Coleman is plenty big enough to play DE. Bruce played at almost that exact size for his entire career. Granted, guys are bigger now, but he played DE in the SEC, which to hear tell is the be all, end all of college football. Elvis Dumervil is doing pretty well at DE and he is smaller than Coleman.

 

Let him play. if he cant cut it, then move him...

[Cynical]

You seem to be quoting some scouting report(s)?

 

General observation. Some of the scouting reports I read were even more pessimistic.

 

But have you watched his videos? There's at least 10 minutes of AC on Youtube and it's very impressive IMO. The scouting reports say he gives up on plays? Maybe. But it's hard to believe.

 

I try not to put too much emphasis on individual player highlight videos. I have yet to see one where they show the player being owned, being out of position, or showing the player's weaknesses.

 

Coleman being an "inconsistent" player is not something new. That's a label that's plagued him for about 2-3(?) years.

I do not even remember what SEC board I first read it.

 

When I started paying attention to him, I notice he seemed to give up on plays.

 

My impressions from the 65-70 plays I've seen are that he's a high-effort player who plays with intensity and a lot of swagger. He seems like the emotional leader of the Auburn defense and on the downside, a guy who might get a few unsportsmanlike conduct and personal foul penalties from time to time.

 

Also very obvious from the video is that he's a very smart ballplayer. He was "sniffing out" screen passes, made a great "stay at home" play against a reverse gimmick pass play, and had very good vision and instincts throughout the videos.

 

I liked that he seemed to have a great game against Alabama and made some great plays against LSU, two of the conference powerhouses.

 

Seemed like he had a great game against Alabama? I have no idea what or how many Coleman highlight videos you have watched, but the video linked in this thread shows only 2 plays vs. Bama.

 

And the QB sack, Coleman beat the Tide's LT, Carpenter, who was banged up, and playing with a leg injury.

 

And the highlight video does not show the next 2 plays after the sack, where it seems he gave up on the plays.

 

Here's a highlight video of the game itself, and more specifically, Bama's game winning drive.

 

Linky

 

There are numerous plays with Coleman in it. Watch the game winning drive especially. Right after his sack of Bama's QB,

watch the next two plays.

 

The second play after the sack, Coleman lines up on the left side of the D. Yes, that is him giving up rushing the passer once he realizes he is facing a double team.

 

Also, he has football speed. He appears to bend the corner very nicely (there's still no measurement for that speed--curling around on an outside rush) and use his hands well. He plays on the left side but can also rush from the right side and has both inside and outside pass rushes.

 

Yes, he was undrafted, is a bit short and doesn't have good timed speed.

 

Like another undrafted, short player who ran in the 4.85 range coming out, James Harrison, I think Antonio Coleman could develop into an excellent NFL player.

 

Never said he could not. Sam Mills(?) played for the Saints in the late 80's and early 90's, and he was only 5'9''.

 

I was only responding to the question of why Coleman wasn't drafted.

 

In my past experience, in trying to determine why a player like Coleman wasn't drafted or drafted late, watching their highlight videos never leads to a reasonable or logical answer.

[C.Biscuit97]

I have no idea if he will make it, but it just seems insane that some team won't spent a 7th rounder on the SEC sack leader who has no character problems.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thanks for posting the Iron Bowl highlights, Cynical.

 

On a few of your points. I don't have the habit of trusting scouting reports out of hand as I'm sure you don't either.

 

I do like seeing tape on the player myself. My ultimate evaluation (fwiw) will come from a combo of the two. Of course highlights are not always representative but watching 65-70 plays of a player is certainly better than only reading about them.

 

I disagree with your assessment of Coleman giving up on those plays against Bama.

 

The first one was a screen pass to the defensive left side on a play where Coleman had lined up at right defensive end. As I've seen Bruce Smith do many, many times, he knew he was not in the play and didn't do the (albeit admirable) Chris Kelsay run as fast as possible in vain, play.

 

The second play he was in a 3-man containment rush against 6 blockers. Again, you can struggle in vain or set containment and spy on the quarterback, try to read his passing lanes and maybe get a hand on the ball.

 

On neither of these plays did I think Coleman "gave up" on the plays, but made the decision to not waste his energy in vain.

 

Anyways, we don't have to agree. I look forward to seeing what kind of player he is.