K Gun Special Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 The point of the first post, and he's correct, is that treatment like that that has been given our QBs since Kelly can turn guys with very legitimate possibilities of turning into franchise QBs into has beens and wannabes. I understand the point. My point was that if we ruined anything we didnt ruin the next big prospect. We havent had a guy whos been projected to be a franchise QB but we turned him into todd collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills in va Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 No worries, i just didnt get that from the post. i dont disagree with anything you said. THe bills lack of success has to do with coaching for sure, but the #1 culprit is lack of talent, at QB especially. Didn't Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl? Lack of talent-Yes. Especially at QB-Maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 No way to know that. Brees sure didn't look like quality talent for his first three years. And there are a million other examples. I'm not saying there WAS quality talent here since Kelly. Just that in the right circumstances, it's POSSIBLE there MIGHT HAVE BEEN. Both the chicken and the egg were produced by a system, a system which has efficiently hummed along for billions of years, called evolution. Luckily QBs don't require billions of years, but they sure as hell generally require 3 or 4 years surrounded by an efficient system. Actually, they don't generally require 3-4 years. Look at the starting QBs: Ryan, Flacco, Palmer, P manning, E Manning, Favre, Cutler, McNabb were either doing ok right away or after sitting a year. Rivers, Brady, Romo, Rogers and Schaub didn't have any meaningful gametime as backups--when they got the starting job, they were fine right away. What are the millions of examples your are referencing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaBill Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share Posted June 3, 2010 As some very astute people pointed out, a strong Running game shouldered by a quality offensive line are two requirements needed for developing QBs to be successful and those QBs that are not supported by either, typically lose confidence and second guess themselves... ruining their potential careers. I do like the fact that one of the first things I heard Chan say was he wanted to run the ball first.... That takes the pressure off the QB assuming we can actually get more than 3 ypc. and I think we have a threesome of RBs who should be able to achieve that, provided the O-line can get some push or crack a seam. We have three very differently talented RBs who all share some similar talents (speed, catching, elusive) so this could be interesting if it works. Its hard to believe "Fast Freddy" is the slowest back we have.... The worry is really the O-line, I was gaining confidence in it last season before all the injuries decimated it, but this year seems more patchwork and I really wonder how it will all shake out. I think our line play will have a bigger impact on our QB play than the talent (or lack there of) at the QB position. NFL history has proven that the "Franchise QB" is not needed to win in this league. Of course it helps a lot to have a franchise QB, but a strong O-line, Run Game, and stingy Defense are the most common elements of your winning teams. I like the fact Chan has gotten a lot from unknown talent, but who has he really developed? I'll give him the chance to show us, but I remain skeptical that we have everything we need in place to actually develop one of the QB's we have on the roster. If so, then perhaps we have a chance at one of the highly respected QB talents coming out next year. I really like Locker, but I want to see another year before hitching my horse to him. - and we would still need to solve the O-line stability. On the other hand I see a glimmer of a franchise QB in both TE and BB that could be teased out with the proper support.... either one would be an excellent backup QB and both might wind up being, if not for us for another team. Fitz should be let go IMHO.... He is just not going to develop further and doesn't fit the plan. That means BB and TE as the #2's trying to prove they can be #1's a bit like TE and JP or RJ and DF....(dear lord not that again!) I would just hate to see us go "gimmick" like Miami.... IE: the 'pistol offense' (I want a "machine gun" or a "hand cannon" at least! ) K Gun Special - Todd Collins turned into a serviceable backup QB for like 12 NFL years! We are good at cranking out backups QBs!!! Whats your point?!?!? Thurman Nailed it, we take any prospect with a chance at being a #1 and twist him into a serviceable #2 for ourselves or another team. Our history shows the best we ever did at developing a QB was Ferguson.... Hmm the guy had OJ Simpson and the Electric Company... Hmm are we seeing a patern here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Didn't Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl? Lack of talent-Yes. Especially at QB-Maybe Sure. An exception to the rule. Might have had one of the best defenses ever playing for him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaBill Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share Posted June 3, 2010 Sure. An exception to the rule. Might have had one of the best defenses ever playing for him too. Not to mention both Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes Running the ball behind 4-time Pro bowl LT Johnathan Ogden and C Jeff Mitchell.... not to beat a dead horse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Part of the reason we have had so many HC's and OC's over the years is becaue of the atrocious QB's we have had under center. No staff, good or bad, is going to last more than a couple seasons without some kind of stability and consistency from our QB's. So while its true, we have had a lot of rushed QB's and poor development, none of them have ever really proven to be any good even after they left here and got good coaching. Some of these bumbs were inherited by the regime, some were drafted in their tenure. All were rushed to try and save their job...none could handle it. So, yes, its easy to point the finger at the turnover, but the side of the coin no one ever considers is that many of those coaches failed because of the lack of talent we had at QB...I mean even DJ would have had this team a playoff of team if we didnt have a crop of losers under center because he still found a way to get 7 wins every year despite some of the worst QB play in the league most of his tenure here. So while I totally agree with your points, I also think its important to look at the collective group of QB's in that span and you can see a clear gap of talent and a lack of ability to stay on the field. Many of those QB's sealed the coffins of several coaches and OC's, some of which have gone on to have a lot of success elsewhere. as true as your statement is about the lack of quality at the QB position, the scary thing is that Modrak and his scouting staff for the last decade responsible for all of those blown QB picks are still employed at OBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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