Doc Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 They didn't draft a servicable QB, we agree. Their fortunes haven't improved with the lot of their 1st round picks regardless. Relying on "college/draft experts" (entry level BLESTO scouts) is what convinced us to pick JPL in the first round and not even notice a guy like Schaub. Guess Aaron Rogers wasn't on the radar of BLESTO yet, huh? Speaking of Schaub---he had a phenominal year in Houston last season. In his first season as starter, he led a perennially crappy/disappointing team to their first winning season and had the same record as two other AFC playoff teams. His play has turned that team around. His fraction of a season in 2008 was better than JPL's best as a full time starter. Knowing all this, you can only point out that he hasn't taken his team to a playoffs yet? Nice try. You've been down on this guy since before he was traded to the Texans. He was a total steal--and is rapidly becoming the 4th member of what may turn out to be one of the best QB drafts in history. The point wasn't your lack of pre-draft knowledge of NFL prospect doc (BLESTO knew who Rodgers was as well). It was that over the past decade, only 2 QB's that the Bills had a shot at without having to spend a ton to trade up and get, have proven themselves to be top QB's, out of the myriad of QB's drafted. And again, one of those 2 was drafted in the 1st round just a year after the Bills spent a 1st rounder on a QB. So in reality, it was just 1 QB, who was drafted the same year as Losman, but taken in the 3rd round and thus passed-over by almost every team at least twice. IOW, it's far from an exact science. Speaking of Schaub, what's been the complaint about the Bills this past decade? That they haven't made the playoffs. So bringing up that he hasn't taken his team to the playoffs, despite his (first) phenomenal year (out of 6) is salient. Despite how you continually try, you can't have it both ways.
Mr. WEO Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 The point wasn't your lack of pre-draft knowledge of NFL prospect doc (BLESTO knew who Rodgers was as well). It was that over the past decade, only 2 QB's that the Bills had a shot at without having to spend a ton to trade up and get, have proven themselves to be top QB's, out of the myriad of QB's drafted. And again, one of those 2 was drafted in the 1st round just a year after the Bills spent a 1st rounder on a QB. So in reality, it was just 1 QB, who was drafted the same year as Losman, but taken in the 3rd round and thus passed-over by almost every team at least twice. IOW, it's far from an exact science. Speaking of Schaub, what's been the complaint about the Bills this past decade? That they haven't made the playoffs. So bringing up that he hasn't taken his team to the playoffs, despite his (first) phenomenal year (out of 6) is salient. Despite how you continually try, you can't have it both ways. Clearly it's an inexact science. Passing on a 3rd round diamond in the rough can't be a fault for any team. But trading away a first round pick (which could have been used to draft Rogers the next year, if the scouting reports were accurate) to pick the one guy that was CLEARLY misdiagnosed by the junior staff of scouts that made up BLESTO as a top QB draft pick is quite different. The salient point is that we haven't drafted a useful QB since Kelly, doc. If a QB plays like Schaub and his team doesn't make the playoffs (due to a tie breaker) it's on him? To fault Schaub for his inability to get his team to the playoffs (because they weren't a very good team, chief) in his one starting season despite doing all a QB could do to get them there (and insinuating that he had 5 years of failure prior to that despite sitting on the bench) doesn't even rise to the level of disingenous. It's, to put it gently, a stretch. Another strong argument.
mike oxhurtz Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 I agree with your post, although it would take more than one key injury and quite a few lucky breaks for this team to even break even at 8-8. I am hoping they play harder and smarter, but the level of talent still plays into it as much as anything else and they Bills arent there yet. I think Spiller can be an exciting pro, but for the development of the team, I don't think this new regime did a very good job in the draft as far as improving the entire team. Drafting a LT would have/could have improved the ball running, quarterback play, pass protection, etc. As it is now, drafting a running back like Spiller won' t have the effecthere it could have somewhere else, since we have a punt heavy offense. Just think how bad this team would have been lately without Moorman-but then again you can't go much further down than the bottom. I take it you're scared to lose $100 or you're not man enough to honor your side of the bet, or is it both?
birdog1960 Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 I take it you're scared to lose $100 or you're not man enough to honor your side of the bet, or is it both? did you ever consider that he just might not be a gambler or that making a bet with an anonymous person on the internet with no recourse if there's no pay up is kinda stupid, not to mention, probably illegal?
mike oxhurtz Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 did you ever consider that he just might not be a gambler or that making a bet with an anonymous person on the internet with no recourse if there's no pay up is kinda stupid, not to mention, probably illegal? My claim was that there's no way the Bills would draft in the Top 10 next year, and Billsfreak said I was smoking something to believe that. I'm willing to bet $100 on that. I proudly served 8 years in the military, have integrity and I've been a loyal Bills fan for over 25 years. If I were to lose, I would honor the bet and pay up. It's a simple yes or no on the bet. And how do you know if it's illegal? Show me a law stating it's illegal.
birdog1960 Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 My claim was that there's no way the Bills would draft in the Top 10 next year, and Billsfreak said I was smoking something to believe that. I'm willing to bet $100 on that. I proudly served 8 years in the military, have integrity and I've been a loyal Bills fan for over 25 years. If I were to lose, I would honor the bet and pay up. It's a simple yes or no on the bet. And how do you know if it's illegal? Show me a law stating it's illegal. google the "wire wager act". controversial, yes, but I used the qualifier "probably".
mike oxhurtz Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 google the "wire wager act". controversial, yes, but I used the qualifier "probably". Thanks, I'll check it out!
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Oh CBiscuit97, you must workout! What's worse, an internet tough guy or Labatt blue'd up Buffalo tough guy in an Affliction T-shirt? CBiscuit, you're the most lecturous poster on this board and anytime you think a poster isn't "being classy" or is name calling your favorite player you are right there to chime in saying that it's not right. Yet you're doing the same thing and now your threatening someone with your "real" muscles! What an incredibly hypocritical d-bag you are. Think whatever you want because I don't crap of what some douche bag I don't know thinks. All I know is in person, people are less quicker to throw insults. And I'd make fun of your posts if I ever paid attention to them. But great call on Clausen!!! I'm willing to put my money up, which I did last year and both parties manned up. But obviously that guy is a coward and just talks a big game. Kinda like yourself.
Kultarr Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Would. Ah, context is important. I meant my statement from the context of a future where SQ's predictions came to pass, not from today's perspective where everything in the future is an unknown. Thanks for your contribution.
mike oxhurtz Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Think whatever you want because I don't crap of what some douche bag I don't know thinks. All I know is in person, people are less quicker to throw insults. And I'd make fun of your posts if I ever paid attention to them. But great call on Clausen!!! I'm willing to put my money up, which I did last year and both parties manned up. But obviously that guy is a coward and just talks a big game. Kinda like yourself. Billsfreak is ignoring us, hoping we'll go away. He called us out so we responded with our offers. It's obvious billsfreak is not man enough to accept our offers and to back up his claims.
Doc Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Clearly it's an inexact science. Passing on a 3rd round diamond in the rough can't be a fault for any team. But trading away a first round pick (which could have been used to draft Rogers the next year, if the scouting reports were accurate) to pick the one guy that was CLEARLY misdiagnosed by the junior staff of scouts that made up BLESTO as a top QB draft pick is quite different. The salient point is that we haven't drafted a useful QB since Kelly, doc. If a QB plays like Schaub and his team doesn't make the playoffs (due to a tie breaker) it's on him? To fault Schaub for his inability to get his team to the playoffs (because they weren't a very good team, chief) in his one starting season despite doing all a QB could do to get them there (and insinuating that he had 5 years of failure prior to that despite sitting on the bench) doesn't even rise to the level of disingenous. It's, to put it gently, a stretch. Another strong argument. Um, Schaub's been with the Texans for 3 years, as their starter. Last year was the first he stayed healthy all season, if that's what you meant. Look doc. Fair or not, QB's are judged on their W-L record. They get too much credit when their team wins, and too much criticism when their team loses. And wins and losses are only important as far as making the playoffs are concerned. Schaub hasn't taken his team to the playoffs in his 3 years as a starter with the Texans, for whatever reason. It is what it is. And by not having a good team, his offense was good and his defense was ranked 13th in the league. How many more all-pros does he need on that defense? He had Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Brian "juice" Cushing, and Dunta Robinson. Does he need a better kicker and/or punter? Long snapper? Or did you mean he has a bad coach? Or owner? Or organization?
mike oxhurtz Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Um, Schaub's been with the Texans for 3 years, as their starter. Last year was the first he stayed healthy all season, if that's what you meant. Look doc. Fair or not, QB's are judged on their W-L record. They get too much credit when their team wins, and too much criticism when their team loses. And wins and losses are only important as far as making the playoffs are concerned. Schaub hasn't taken his team to the playoffs in his 3 years as a starter with the Texans, for whatever reason. It is what it is. And by not having a good team, his offense was good and his defense was ranked 13th in the league. How many more all-pros does he need on that defense? He had Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Brian "juice" Cushing, and Dunta Robinson. Does he need a better kicker and/or punter? Long snapper? Or did you mean he has a bad coach? Or owner? Or organization? Not to mention one of the best WR's in the game.
Mr. WEO Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Um, Schaub's been with the Texans for 3 years, as their starter. Last year was the first he stayed healthy all season, if that's what you meant. Look doc. Fair or not, QB's are judged on their W-L record. They get too much credit when their team wins, and too much criticism when their team loses. And wins and losses are only important as far as making the playoffs are concerned. Schaub hasn't taken his team to the playoffs in his 3 years as a starter with the Texans, for whatever reason. It is what it is. And by not having a good team, his offense was good and his defense was ranked 13th in the league. How many more all-pros does he need on that defense? He had Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Brian "juice" Cushing, and Dunta Robinson. Does he need a better kicker and/or punter? Long snapper? Or did you mean he has a bad coach? Or owner? Or organization? It was his first year as starter start to finish. Regardless, that moribund team has improved every year since his arrival. Look at the point differential over that 3 year period. He had the most passing yards, most completions and 5th most TDs in the league. The defense (17th in points allowed is mediocre, no matter how many pro bowlers you can name) is not his job. "His" number of wins were enough for two other teams to make the playoffs in the AFC. "for whatever reason"? Seriously? Look, if you want to believe that Schaub is average or whatever it is you are getting at--go ahead I guess. Put it on the list.
John Cocktosten Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Think whatever you want because I don't crap of what some douche bag I don't know thinks. All I know is in person, people are less quicker to throw insults. And I'd make fun of your posts if I ever paid attention to them. But great call on Clausen!!! You're a regular Bill Shakespeare! The funny thing is that you always seem to reply to my posts so you must be reading them. As far as Clausen goes, did he play an NFL game yet? I said I thought he "will be a very good QB" and I STILL DO. Has that been proven wrong? Sooooo...what's your point then? PS- you're name calling you internet tough guy!
Doc Posted June 4, 2010 Posted June 4, 2010 It was his first year as starter start to finish. Regardless, that moribund team has improved every year since his arrival. Look at the point differential over that 3 year period. He had the most passing yards, most completions and 5th most TDs in the league. The defense (17th in points allowed is mediocre, no matter how many pro bowlers you can name) is not his job. "His" number of wins were enough for two other teams to make the playoffs in the AFC. "for whatever reason"? Seriously? Look, if you want to believe that Schaub is average or whatever it is you are getting at--go ahead I guess. Put it on the list. The Eagles and Super Bowl winning Saints gave up more PPG than the Texans did last year and made the playoffs. So yes, "for whatever reason." But I never called Schaub "average." I said he was a good QB in my initial post on the topic, but that he hasn't taken his team to the playoffs.
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