Marv Levy - rewind

[JohnC]

Yeah, and one of the main reasons Polian will be in the HOF is that he has always been terrific at picking excellent head coaches. Including Levy. Levy was superb at creating the systems, picking excellent assistants and letting them coach, organizing everything and getting a bunch of really disparate and uncontrollable personalities to pull together. Without him, that team wouldn't have been nearly as good.

 

Yeah, Polian was absolutely crucial. And yeah, one of his most important decisions was picking Levy.

 

And yeah, you need a damn good GM to be good (and a damn good coach too).

 

As Polian has already demonstrated he was able to build a winning franchise wherever he has gone. He did it with the Bills, Carolina and Indianapolis. It is my view that without Levy the Bills still would have been a successful team. Levy was a solid HC who was good at delegating authority and handling personalities. He wasn't very much involved with the offense or defense. He delegated those responsibilities. Levy's specialty was special teams. At that he did a good job. If Levy was not the HC I'm confident that Polian would have found another alternative HC to be very successful with the team he put together.

 

My point is simple: Polian was indispensable for the success of the Bills; Levy was not. Since Polian's departure the franchise has floundered and he has had stunning successes at his post Bills locations.

[Ramius]

Too many in this thread are letting their feelings about Levy in the GM role cloud their views about Levy the coach.

[spartacus]

Marv wasn't as good a field general as Belichick, who is probably in the top 3 or so of all time.

 

As for the other Super Bowl losses, we simply didn't have as good a team. Our offense was absolutely fantastic. But our run defense was never anything special at all, unfortunately, particularly at NT, and it got a lot worse when Conlan left.

 

We got unlucky in that all of the teams we played in the SB had big bad massive OLs and dominant run attacks. That was the way to beat us. If a team with a different makeup had played us, we would have won.

 

The major reason our defenses under performed in the Super Bowl run was because Marv failed miserably at hiring good assistants, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Walt Corey cost the Bills the first 2 SuperBowls -

 

his inability to gameplan and devise any scheme at all wasted the tremendous talent of both Bruce and Bennett.

 

and that is on Marv

 

Marv proved his ineptness at identifying coaching talent did not diminish with age as Dick showed so conclusively.

[BuffalOhio]

It's hard to knock the guy who coached the best period in the Bills history, but I think it's pretty obvious Levy was outcoached when it mattered most. Polian built him a team for the ages. Any decent coach would have won 6 straight Super Bowl with that team.

 

PTR

 

Halftime adjustments. That's was the biggest problem with that team. They NEVER made them. Just kept calling the same plays that weren't working in the first half. I loved that team, but that always pissed me off.

[cantankerous]

I think we are solid at kicker with Norwood

 

 

 

 

Thanks! This literally made me laugh my f'n ass off!

[bowery4]

Halftime adjustments. That's was the biggest problem with that team. They NEVER made them. Just kept calling the same plays that weren't working in the first half. I loved that team, but that always pissed me off.

 

THIS! and that was on Walt and ultamitly Marv, I also agree BP likes his smallish,fast Ds. Not sure that is as bad as everyone is making it out to be though. Think the bills recenct history is coloring ppls views.

 

 

And the Norwood thing funny but we had a chance at 10 more yards and shoulda taken it but didn't, he never had that range and it was a bad (almost Jarheadish) choice to make him try it. I will never forgive Marv for that. We had them, damn.

[folz]

IF YOU DON"T WANT TO READ THE WHOLE POST, PLEASE AT LEAST LOOK AT THE TWO QUOTES AT THE BOTTOM.

 

 

I can only imagine that most of the posters saying Levy is overrated, not HOF worthy, and worse yet

not integral to the 90s Bills must be too young to actually remember watching that team. He was the oil

that made that machine run, the glue that kept it together, and an overall great leader and motivator.

 

PLEASE, please do not let his 2 years as GM tarnish his legacy...Marv was a great coach, just ask Bill

Parcells, Don Shula, and others of that era that coached against him.

 

Marv was a leader of men, he kept that team on track, personalities in check, inspired, motivated, and yes,

well coached.

 

The Superbowls, it always comes back to he sucks because he lost 4 Superbowls...everyone talks about him getting

outcoached as the reason we lost. Well, was he out coached in the 123 games he won as a Bills coach? (that works out to 10.69 wins on avg. per season over 11 years). How many other coaches have been able to keep his team's eye on the prize to even go to 2 Superbowls in a row let alone 4.

 

And let's not mention that SB XXV was lost in the last seconds on a missed field goal (that close) against a

Bill Parcells team and Bill Bellicheat defense. Two of the greatest coaches ever and if Norwood straightens out

that kick, Marv would have beat them. Actually Marv did beat them, unfortunately, it was during that same regular season.

Week 15, December 15th, about a month before the Superbowl, the Bills beat the Giants 17-13 in another hard

fought contest at the Meadowlands.

 

Let's also not mention that that Bills team loved to party, even the night before the big game.

 

Washington in SB XXVI still seems like a fluke to me...who knows what the hell happened in that game,

I suppose it is as others said we just ran into another NFC East power running game. The NFC East (not the

NFC) was our achilles heel. We ran over just about everyone else. Our record against the NFC in the Superbowl

years was 14-2 and the two loses came in the last games of the'90 and '91 season when we were resting our starters for the playoffs). But the NFC East was built with beef up front and power running, which as others said was our one

major weakness.

 

By the time we get to the 3rd and 4th SBs against Dallas, our team had been together, basically since 1985/1986.

We started losing players to age, the early years of FA, etc. We were waning as all dynasties do, while the

Cowboys were hitting their stride. We were still good and had our core players (as evidenced by beating Dallas in

week 2 of the '93 season between the two SB loses), but Dallas was a better team and built to shut us down.

 

Anyhow, sorry for another long post, but it drives me mad to hear this talk about Marv. Was he a great GM,

absolutely not. He came really with the hopes of coaching again, and with Wilson begging him to bring some

stability and loyalty back after the Donahoe debacle. So, for Ralph and the franchise, he took the position for two

years...I think more as an ambassador to the fans and media and a bit of sage advice here and there rather than

as a true GM, which is Ralph's fault, not Marv's. Did it go well? Obviously not. But does that make his history as a great BILLS

coach all of a sudden meaningless? Hell no. Polian and Levy were a team...just listen to how Polian speaks of Marv

as a coach...they did it together. Throw in another coach (as some have said) and that same chemistry, never quit

attitude, special teams, motivation, etc. wouldn't have been there.

 

 

"It is said that leadership is that unique quality which enables special people to stand up and pull the rest of us over the horizon. By that or any other definition, Marv Levy is one of the greatest leaders this game has ever known." Bill Polian

 

"That's one of my frustrations, not getting Dan Marino back into the Super Bowl, and Marv had a lot to do with that. They had a great team with great players. Bill Polian made it all happen when he hired Marv, and Marv's genius and ability to coach was just the natural fit for Buffalo." Don Shula

[seq004]

But who did we have?

 

Jim Kelly - he looked great in the USFL, but the guy can't win in the NFL. We went 4-12. The NFL game is just too fast for him.

Bruce Smith - the guy came into camp last year overweight and only managed to get 6.5 sacks. He can't stop the run, plus he jumps offsides constantly in clutch situations. He is going to be a bust.

Look at our receiving core - Butler is 29. Chris Burkett might develop into something. This Andre Reed looked pretty good, but he's from Kutztown state - that's not even D-I. His 53 catches last year is a one-hit wonder.

I remember a reporter walked up to Jerry Butler and asked him how he thought new coach Marv Levy would do and paraphrasing he said "It's like walking into a gold mine" because of all the talent. Jim Kelly was the coach of that team as far as I'm concerned. Marv was more of an intermediate.

[Just Jack]

Give Levy a chance. I bet he leads this team to the Super Bowl -- you heard it here first!! Oh, and Polian, even though he is just some schmuck from within the organization, he seems to have a head on his shoulders -- give the guy a chance.

No way man. They should have hired Dick MacPherson from Syracuse, he's done as much as he can for them, and it would help get more fans from Syracuse.

[JohnC]

So the thread started with people talking as if they were in the past...then people talking in the present...then one more in the past followed by the present. I feel like I'm on LOST.

 

The roller coaster goes up and then down. What is up will come down. What is down will go up. The results are predictable. Just hang on.

[Ray]

And he outcoached Shula, Marty Schottnheimer, Bill Cowher, etc...in playoff games. You guys can't have it both ways saying he got outcoached and then ignore all of the great coaches his teams beat!

Bill Bellicheck is less than a .500 coach without Tom Brady....great coaches always have great players, it is the way it is and always will be.

Marv actually did some of his better coaching later on in his career when the team had less skill but he would get them to the playoffs. Marv was the right coach for that group and is a HOF coach people. Listen to the players as they to a man say the reason they were so resilient was b/c of Marv.

People amaze me how they want to bash everything with present past and future about this team!

[Owen]

Levy was a great head coach. A terrific organizer. Terrible judge of talent before the draft. But he got the most out of the talent he had. His record proves that. But he made too many mistakes judging talent. In the draft and coaches. (jauron) the guy was not perfect when he was with the Bills. But as a head coach Levy was one of the best...

[Bill from NYC]

Too many in this thread are letting their feelings about Levy in the GM role cloud their views about Levy the coach.

 

Obviously, there are different ways to be a successful head coach. Levy was great at soothing egos of stars, and keeping the team together. This is to be complimented.

In terms of on field coaching skills, I would rank him in the lower half, let alone not in the class of truly great coaches. Wrt personnel, including the hiring of coaches, he was awful.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

In any of the four Super Bowls if you switched coaches I think the Bills would have won. That being said, I do think Marv's much more laid back "Club Marv" allowed them to come back every year. JJ or BP would have burnt everyone out once thye won the first. I'd even go as far to say if the Bills had won the first agaisnt the Giants, they never would have repeated. It's always tough to repeat as hard to keep the players focused. Marv allowed the players freedom, but if they had won it all the extra jolt of publicity would have been too much to overcome. There'd be player sightings reported every night at 2:00am in the bars, etc. and Marv likely would have more allowed that.

 

 

It's hard to knock the guy who coached the best period in the Bills history, but I think it's pretty obvious Levy was outcoached when it mattered most. Polian built him a team for the ages. Any decent coach would have won 6 straight Super Bowl with that team.

 

PTR

[Kultarr]

Didn't see it mentioned, but immediately before Levy the Bills were quite simply pure garbage. He didn't do it alone, but he certainly played a major role in cleaning some of the garbage and cancers out of the locker room and turning Ralph's dumpster fire into a highly regarded and successful franchise during his run as the head coach.

[Adam]

In any of the four Super Bowls if you switched coaches I think the Bills would have won. That being said, I do think Marv's much more laid back "Club Marv" allowed them to come back every year. JJ or BP would have burnt everyone out once thye won the first. I'd even go as far to say if the Bills had won the first agaisnt the Giants, they never would have repeated. It's always tough to repeat as hard to keep the players focused. Marv allowed the players freedom, but if they had won it all the extra jolt of publicity would have been too much to overcome. There'd be player sightings reported every night at 2:00am in the bars, etc. and Marv likely would have more allowed that.

I have never bought into that- if Norwood's kick goes a few feet more to the left, our next season gets changed? Levy is a better coach? No on both.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

You may not have bought into it, but history says very few repeat. Maybe the year after they get back to SB once they realize they need to drain their fat heads.

 

 

I have never bought into that-

[Adam]

Didn't see it mentioned, but immediately before Levy the Bills were quite simply pure garbage. He didn't do it alone, but he certainly played a major role in cleaning some of the garbage and cancers out of the locker room and turning Ralph's dumpster fire into a highly regarded and successful franchise during his run as the head coach.

You are correct- Levy didn't worry about the X's and O's. He hired guys to take care of that. He was more of a CEO that kept things in order- and he did a heck of a job changing the culture of what was one of the most woeful franchises in league history.

 

Those players would have run through a wall for him. he wasn't perfect, but you take the bad with the good, and there was plenty more good with Levy

[C.Biscuit97]

I love how people knock Marv for having a ton of talent. What team wins without talent. How good was Belichick until he got one of the greatest QBs ever? He had a worse winning % than Dick Jauron.

 

Levy, and it was part of Jauron's problem too, was loyal to a fault. Walt Corey was a joke of a DC and should have been fired. It's crazy to think how many sacks Bruce lost because he had to play in a 3-4. Our defense was soft and our key offensive players choked in big games. Levy probably wasn't the best coach in hte world, but coaching in the NFL is letting your talent feel comfortable to win games.

 

Getting a team to bounce back SB loss after SB loss is insanely impressive. Marv Levy is one of hte greatest Bills ever.

[Adam]

I love how people knock Marv for having a ton of talent. What team wins without talent. How good was Belichick until he got one of the greatest QBs ever? He had a worse winning % than Dick Jauron.

 

Levy, and it was part of Jauron's problem too, was loyal to a fault. Walt Corey was a joke of a DC and should have been fired. It's crazy to think how many sacks Bruce lost because he had to play in a 3-4. Our defense was soft and our key offensive players choked in big games. Levy probably wasn't the best coach in hte world, but coaching in the NFL is letting your talent feel comfortable to win games.

 

Getting a team to bounce back SB loss after SB loss is insanely impressive. Marv Levy is one of hte greatest Bills ever.

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