meazza Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...IDDLETopStories European allies were less circumspect. France and Spain quickly concluded the Israeli use of force was excessive. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said he "condemns a disproportionate use of force." Spain called the Israeli actions "unacceptable." I grow tired of the term, "disproportionate use of force". You either use force or you don't. There is no such thing as proportionate use of force. I'd like to see that in real combat and actually work.
Jim in Anchorage Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...IDDLETopStories European allies were less circumspect. France and Spain quickly concluded the Israeli use of force was excessive. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said he "condemns a disproportionate use of force." Spain called the Israeli actions "unacceptable." I grow tired of the term, "disproportionate use of force". You either use force or you don't. There is no such thing as proportionate use of force. I'd like to see that in real combat and actually work. France defines proportionate force
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...IDDLETopStories European allies were less circumspect. France and Spain quickly concluded the Israeli use of force was excessive. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said he "condemns a disproportionate use of force." Spain called the Israeli actions "unacceptable." I grow tired of the term, "disproportionate use of force". You either use force or you don't. There is no such thing as proportionate use of force. I'd like to see that in real combat and actually work. The Euros are weak and influenced by the cancerous-pariah Islamic communities in their midst. They're afraid of upsettign the apple cart, so this is their natural reaction to this situation.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 Hi. I have searched for a good bit now, and cannot find any source that confirms this. Can you help a brother out with a link? I cannot find anything about an offer of inspection in Ashkelon. Everything I see says Israel was planning on taking control of the ships and bringing them to Ashkelon (which they did). Also, as far as I'm aware Red Cross is not allowed past the blockade either, and have not been for some time. CNN a good enough source for you?
Magox Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 No matter what the circumstances may have been, it's not going to look good for the Israelis, and makes it all the more complicated for the U.S. Obama is in a tough spot here, he has been under a lot of pressure from the Jewish community and even his own party to repair relations with Netanyahu, he's got his 2012 elections to think of, but if he doesn't condemn the Israelis, he can pretty much throw his Foreign policy strategy right out the door, as the muslim community will see him as just the same as our previous administrations. Interesting comment, I would imagine the arab community won't be too happy about this one. A delicate diplomatic maneuver by President Barack Obama to smooth frayed relations with Israel without alienating America’s Arab allies may have been blown out of the water Monday morning by Israel’s botched attempt to enforce the Gaza blockade – and by the lack of condemnation from Washington that followed it. For while much about the incident remains unclear, a day of carefully parsed statements from the White House and State Department left at least one irrefutable aftershock: With much of the world expressing fury over the raid, the contrast with Washington’s muted response could not have been more striking. “The situation is that they’re so isolated right now that it’s not only that we’re the only ones who will stick up for them,” said an American official. “We’re the only ones who believe them – and what they’re saying is true.”
/dev/null Posted June 1, 2010 Author Posted June 1, 2010 Turkey would be acting as an aggressor. And since they did NOT support us in Iraq and have worked against us on numerous occasions, I don't see that we owe them diddly-doo. The post by meazza that I was responding to speculated what would happen if Israel were to attack, thus making Israel the aggressor. If Israel were to attack, the eu would have no choice but to take sides with their ally.
Jim in Anchorage Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 Granted that I'm a self centered American who thinks the bulk of world politics revolves around the modern Roman Empire we've created. But I'm less concerned with how the response of Turkey's EU allies as the response of Turkey's other big ally - NATO. Specifically how this affects the largest member of NATO. The same member of NATO that has repeatedly asked other members of NATO for support while it wages it's own wars... NATO, EU respond to crises
stuckincincy Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 It's humanitarian aid. Food and medical supplies and such. 'Good guys' don't block that sort of thing from reaching people. Bunk. Untold billions have been tossed to the Palestinians...for decades. It gets pocketed and stolen by their own. They streamed into Lebanon and ruined that beautiful nation. Before that, Jordan had the stones to crush their hate and not let them in and kill their society. Since 2007, when Hamas bludgeoned their way in, over 6,500 rockets have been launched at Israel. Sniping is a daily occurrence. There are thousands of Israelis living in agony with poisoned screws, nails and the like embedded in their bodies. Israel turned a desert into a place of prosperity. The Palestinian "leaders" and their pals have always chosen poverty and virtual slavery for their people, and foster hatred and murder at every turn.
finknottle Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 Check this map from the EU's own website. Turkey, as you'll note, is blue. It is not a full member, in fact, it's status was most recently denied due to its own special form of democracy. It's this rejection that's pushed them into the arms of Iran. You are being too kind to the EU. It has nothing to do with any 'special form of democracy.' In an expanded EU, Turkey would be the second largest member by population. It is large, (relatively) poor, and muslim. Many EU members simply don't want the free movement of Turks into their countries, which EU membership entails. The EU has been flipping Turkey the bird for the past 20 years, despite repeated moves to satisfy the objections of the moment. So the current Turkish administration has said 'enough' and reoriented its foreign policy to Russia and the Middle East.
Fezmid Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 Anyone else find this quote a little offensive? http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/01/...dex.html?hpt=T2 "Davutoglu said Tuesday that for Turks, the attack is psychologically "like 9/11."" Yeah, some ships willingly trying to break through a blockade is exactly like someone blowing up a building full of office workers who were just going to work to do their job.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 Anyone else find this quote a little offensive? http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/01/...dex.html?hpt=T2 "Davutoglu said Tuesday that for Turks, the attack is psychologically "like 9/11."" Yeah, some ships willingly trying to break through a blockade is exactly like someone blowing up a building full of office workers who were just going to work to do their job. I'm sick of Middle Eastern countries in general. I'm half hoping BO decides he's on the side of the bad guys so Israel has the handcuffs removed. If everyone hates them already, let em free.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Excellent article at NRO on this topic. Linkie poo. Just did some snooping around on leftist blogs and not surprisingly, the anti-semitism is BLATANT there. Not hidden behind a veil of anti-Zionism. Out and out calls for the "rothschildian" state to be annihiated. Chilling, considering the short memories of some. Perhaps a replaying loop of Goebbels would be useful, no?
IDBillzFan Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Excellent article at NRO on this topic. Linkie poo. Just did some snooping around on leftist blogs and not surprisingly, the anti-semitism is BLATANT there. Not hidden behind a veil of anti-Zionism. Out and out calls for the "rothschildian" state to be annihiated. Chilling, considering the short memories of some. Perhaps a replaying loop of Goebbels would be useful, no? Though, you have to give the WH credit for finally not rushing to judgement on something. I think it's doing a good job of NOT joining with its base on this for the sake of pandering. The wait-and-see approach is, I think, very important here.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Though, you have to give the WH credit for finally not rushing to judgement on something. I think it's doing a good job of NOT joining with its base on this for the sake of pandering. The wait-and-see approach is, I think, very important here. This. I thought for sure Obama would cower behind the rest of the world and lapse into an anti-Israel position. But so far, he hasn't. A stand behind Israel would cool turkey's jets and make them think twice about escorting any more Hamas sympathizers. A little flash of the Mediterranean fleet wouldn't hurt, either.
GG Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Excellent article at NRO on this topic. Linkie poo. Just did some snooping around on leftist blogs and not surprisingly, the anti-semitism is BLATANT there. Not hidden behind a veil of anti-Zionism. Out and out calls for the "rothschildian" state to be annihiated. Chilling, considering the short memories of some. Perhaps a replaying loop of Goebbels would be useful, no? As an aside, there was a quote from one of the passengers, an Israeli who denounced his citizenship, "from the time when Jews didn't have armies and police to harass freedom fighters, when Jews were victims, and were standing at the forefront of the fight for the dignity of people" - Ah the good old days of pogroms & gas chambers. I truly miss them too.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 As an aside, there was a quote from one of the passengers, an Israeli who denounced his citizenship, "from the time when Jews didn't have armies and police to harass freedom fighters, when Jews were victims, and were standing at the forefront of the fight for the dignity of people" - Ah the good old days of pogroms & gas chambers. I truly miss them too. I love the left, I really do. Marx was dead-on correct about liberals: they ARE idiots. Perusing the Huffington Post, I came upon an interesting article. But even more telling were the comments. And these are the comments let through by the moderators? Looks to me as though Hamas and Hexbollah have a good number of sympathizers here in the good old USA. Ignorant !@#$tards, those people are. I'd like to give them all a tour of Auschwitz to see where their anti-Semitic mentalities lead.
Magox Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Though, you have to give the WH credit for finally not rushing to judgement on something. I think it's doing a good job of NOT joining with its base on this for the sake of pandering. The wait-and-see approach is, I think, very important here. The W.H.'s political capital has been spent, they are already perceived by some from the Jewish community as being nonsympathetic to their cause, and as I pointed out earlier, Obama can't afford to lose any more voters considering that the independents have all but abandoned him, so you can call me cynical, but I chalk this up as a political calculation with Nov. 2011 in mind.
RkFast Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 I love the left, I really do. Marx was dead-on correct about liberals: they ARE idiots. Perusing the Huffington Post, I came upon an interesting article. But even more telling were the comments. And these are the comments let through by the moderators? Looks to me as though Hamas and Hexbollah have a good number of sympathizers here in the good old USA. Ignorant !@#$tards, those people are. I'd like to give them all a tour of Auschwitz to see where their anti-Semitic mentalities lead. AUSCHWITZ???!!!!??? Send them to a Hamas or Hezbollah camp! When they show up and announce they are "with Hamas, but Americans" and get their asses handed to them, it will be priceless.
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Overlooked in all of this is that the organizers of the "flotilla" got exactly what they wanted: a confrontation in which Israel is embarrassed and international support for Gaza is strengthened. It had nothing to do with "aid".
GG Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Overlooked in all of this is that the organizers of the "flotilla" got exactly what they wanted: a confrontation in which Israel is embarrassed and international support for Gaza is strengthened. It had nothing to do with "aid". I thought it was obvious, especially with Israel saying so last week well before the boarding of the ship. The right thing to have been done was to prevent the flotilla from sailing in the first place. Forget Obama admins actions now - everything was set in motion when he opened the door two months ago for countries to take a more confrontational stance against Israel.
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