/dev/null Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 While we debate such pressing matters as an oil spill, the latest dumbass remark by Olberman | Beck, legalized weed, and Global Warming Cooling Climate Change You Can Believe In, life goes on outside the US... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_...el_palestinians http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/201...y_aid_ship.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 While we debate such pressing matters as an oil spill, the latest dumbass remark by Olberman | Beck, legalized weed, and Global Warming Cooling Climate Change You Can Believe In, life goes on outside the US... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_...el_palestinians http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/201...y_aid_ship.html What's to debate. This was a PR mission that served its purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 It was a trap. They had 600 people on one boat and 100 between the other 5. They were planning to resist, knowing the Israeli's were going to stop the convoy. The Israeli's fell for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Ya this will be interesting to see unfold. Turkey is super pissed about this. Obama has to pander to the Jewish vote, so he probably won't get mad. I heard Turkey was sending another humanitarian relief envoy soon with escort by their Navy. Edit: A Jewish group denounces the attack: http://www.theshalomcenter.org/node/1725 Edit2: Here is another video I did not see posted in above links: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I heard Turkey was sending another humanitarian relief envoy soon with escort by their Navy. Good, and I hope the Israelis engage and sink Turkish vessels if necessary. This was CLEARLY a provocation. The convoy was warned not to approach Gaza repeatedly over the last week. They defied the order, and then violently resisted boarding. Anyone who died earned their death, and the world will be better off with 9 fewer Islamisc terrorist supporters. Also, I think the upside to this situation is that Obama will exposed for the anti-semite and anti-zionist that he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Good, and I hope the Israelis engage and sink Turkish vessels if necessary. This was CLEARLY a provocation. The convoy was warned not to approach Gaza repeatedly over the last week. They defied the order, and then violently resisted boarding. Anyone who died earned their death, and the world will be better off with 9 fewer Islamisc terrorist supporters. Also, I think the upside to this situation is that Obama will exposed for the anti-semite and anti-zionist that he is. Provocation? They boarded a ship in international waters. They're as good as pirates unfortunately... Of course it's obvious that the entire point of the exercise was to show the world that the Israeli's are evil, and the Israeli's played right into it. And of course let's not debate the implications of Israel sinking the ship of one of their only Muslim allies and member of the EU... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 And of course let's not debate the implications of Israel sinking the ship of one of their only Muslim allies and member of the EU... And NATO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Provocation? They boarded a ship in international waters. They're as good as pirates unfortunately... Of course it's obvious that the entire point of the exercise was to show the world that the Israeli's are evil, and the Israeli's played right into it. And of course let's not debate the implications of Israel sinking the ship of one of their only Muslim allies and member of the EU... Few things... 1) Yes, it was a provocation. They were warned they would be denied entry into Gaza, and were offered an alternative, but chose to press on in the hopes of starting trouble. Ergo, it was a provocation. It will be a provocation if Turkey does decide to sail on with an escort. 2) What should the Israelis have done? Let them through? Really, let's apply common sense here. 3) Turkey has NOT behaved as an ally to Israel since their Islamist government took over. Indeed, Turkey's bargained with Iran, has taken part in this provocative action, even sanctioning it. Also, Turkey is not a full member of the EU. As far as I'm concerned, they're not even OUR ally, after their actions leading up to the IRaq war. They're also a nation that has in the past committed genocide against Armenians and Kurds, and cannot be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 2) What should the Israelis have done? Let them through? Really, let's apply common sense here. It's humanitarian aid. Food and medical supplies and such. 'Good guys' don't block that sort of thing from reaching people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 It's humanitarian aid. Food and medical supplies and such. 'Good guys' don't block that sort of thing from reaching people. The naivete is just absurd, even for you. These "activsts" were SO concerned about delivering the humanitarian aid that they refused to dock in ashkelon to undergo inspection of cargo. They refused to deliver the aid through the UN or the Red Cross. They INSISTED on doing it themselves. The Israelis were willing to allow them through once the cargo was inspected. But again, the "activists" refused. "Why?" you may ask. BECAUSE THEY HAD SOMETHING TO HIDE AND AN AGENDA OF PROVOCATION. Theirs was a mission of publicity and aggression, not of humanitarianism. You're a tool, conner. You even give liberal suckers a bad name with your simpleminded worldview. People like you are how terrorists, murderers and warmongers gain control. Unfortunately, there are millions of people just like you all over the world who share such a simpleton's outlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 No matter what the circumstances may have been, it's not going to look good for the Israelis, and makes it all the more complicated for the U.S. Obama is in a tough spot here, he has been under a lot of pressure from the Jewish community and even his own party to repair relations with Netanyahu, he's got his 2012 elections to think of, but if he doesn't condemn the Israelis, he can pretty much throw his Foreign policy strategy right out the door, as the muslim community will see him as just the same as our previous administrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 1. it was provocation 2. The Israeli blockade has much less to do about smuggled weapons and much more to do about punishing the people of Gaza for electing Hamas leaders. 3. The Israelis were either pretty stupid or pretty arrogant to raid the ships while they were still in international waters that's a violation of international law- Israel is like the 6th leading exporter of military equipment in the world maybe they should get all their ships interdicted. 4. Don't screw with the Turks they're not like the Arabs- they have a large modern military and if you piss them off enough the will to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 4. Don't screw with the Turks they're not like the Arabs- they have a large modern military and if you piss them off enough the will to use it. Not against Israel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 These "activsts" were SO concerned about delivering the humanitarian aid that they refused to dock in ashkelon to undergo inspection of cargo. They refused to deliver the aid through the UN or the Red Cross. Hi. I have searched for a good bit now, and cannot find any source that confirms this. Can you help a brother out with a link? I cannot find anything about an offer of inspection in Ashkelon. Everything I see says Israel was planning on taking control of the ships and bringing them to Ashkelon (which they did). Also, as far as I'm aware Red Cross is not allowed past the blockade either, and have not been for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Few things... 1) Yes, it was a provocation. They were warned they would be denied entry into Gaza, and were offered an alternative, but chose to press on in the hopes of starting trouble. Ergo, it was a provocation. It will be a provocation if Turkey does decide to sail on with an escort. 2) What should the Israelis have done? Let them through? Really, let's apply common sense here. 3) Turkey has NOT behaved as an ally to Israel since their Islamist government took over. Indeed, Turkey's bargained with Iran, has taken part in this provocative action, even sanctioning it. Also, Turkey is not a full member of the EU. As far as I'm concerned, they're not even OUR ally, after their actions leading up to the IRaq war. They're also a nation that has in the past committed genocide against Armenians and Kurds, and cannot be trusted. in respect to your comment about turkey. Unfortunately they are a member and hold some weight. If Israel were to attack, the eu would have no choice but to take sides with their ally. Not doing so would be retarded. Why form an alliance/union then? Had they waited until the floatilla reached gaza water, they would have had more of a right in the eyes of the international community to search and take control of the boats. The method it was handled now looks more like piracy since it was in no mans land. Of course these minor details is what differentiates a condemnation from allies and a backing. At the end of the day does it really mean anything? To the uninformed (Conner), it simply looks like Israel is trying to stop aid, when in reality, had Israel let the float reach gaza, it would have been considered a victory for their enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Not against Israel... Two years ago I'd agree with this - but history is all about errors in judgement, attacking the flotilla was one- the Turkish navy escorting another flotilla would be two- Israel attacking the Turkish Navy would be three and after that anything could happen- the US would be in a tough spot considering that Turkey is a member of NATO- also you have to remember Turkish domestic politics, they are a democracy and very nationalistic - and nothing will get you voted out of office faster than doing something the public feels is a national humiliation. But overall I'd guess that the UN will issue a strong condemnation with no real teeth a in a couple weeks things will be back to business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 in respect to your comment about turkey. Unfortunately they are a member and hold some weight. If Israel were to attack, the eu would have no choice but to take sides with their ally. Not doing so would be retarded. Why form an alliance/union then? Granted that I'm a self centered American who thinks the bulk of world politics revolves around the modern Roman Empire we've created. But I'm less concerned with how the response of Turkey's EU allies as the response of Turkey's other big ally - NATO. Specifically how this affects the largest member of NATO. The same member of NATO that has repeatedly asked other members of NATO for support while it wages it's own wars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 in respect to your comment about turkey. Unfortunately they are a member and hold some weight. If Israel were to attack, the eu would have no choice but to take sides with their ally. Not doing so would be retarded. Why form an alliance/union then? Check this map from the EU's own website. Turkey, as you'll note, is blue. It is not a full member, in fact, it's status was most recently denied due to its own special form of democracy. It's this rejection that's pushed them into the arms of Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Granted that I'm a self centered American who thinks the bulk of world politics revolves around the modern Roman Empire we've created. But I'm less concerned with how the response of Turkey's EU allies as the response of Turkey's other big ally - NATO. Specifically how this affects the largest member of NATO. The same member of NATO that has repeatedly asked other members of NATO for support while it wages it's own wars... Turkey would be acting as an aggressor. And since they did NOT support us in Iraq and have worked against us on numerous occasions, I don't see that we owe them diddly-doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Check this map from the EU's own website. Turkey, as you'll note, is blue. It is not a full member, in fact, it's status was most recently denied due to its own special form of democracy. It's this rejection that's pushed them into the arms of Iran. Excuse my ignorance. I failed to recall that they were not full members yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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