Bufcomments Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Blows my mind how bad this team was being run from top to bottom when you read things like Whitner is saying now. Hard work does pay off , we know for sure that Jauron and his staff were to easy on the players. Soooo glad they are gone. I think Gailey and his staff will at least toughen this team up.
GR8PRKN Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I was shocked... And the Welcome to the NFL statment, I could not belive it... I hope and pray they stay healthy this year for once...
Dan Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Blows my mind how bad this team was being run from top to bottom when you read things like Whitner is saying now. Hard work does pay off , we know for sure that Jauron and his staff were to easy on the players. Soooo glad they are gone. I think Gailey and his staff will at least toughen this team up. The worst thing about all these comments is that it confirms what most of us have suspected for years. This team was soft, unprepared, simplistic in their schemes. Just astounding, really. I would agree with your statement that at least they'll toughen the players up. In my mind, that's the first step. And it's precisely the right step to implement during OTAs for a soft team. Spend the next few weeks toughening them up physically and mentally. Then come back for training camp and reinforce those lessons while working on the execution.
uforesircher Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 And it explains why the OL keeps getting pushed on their asses as well. iceman - now you are getting to the heart of the problem imo with last year's o-line - leg strength.
PDaDdy Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 +1 to everything anyone said. That is ridiculous. I am NOT getting over excited about this year but it seems like this team with the exact same personnel should be better just because we will start to train, prepare and run an offense and defense like a real NFL team. Throw in some contribution from some rookies and a Dolphin like turn around isn't completely out of the question like I thought it was. It is at least a SLIM possibility at this point.
JohnC Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Squats are terrible for your knees, back, & hips and the muscles worked can be done so doing other exercises. Heavy olympic style lifts are becoming regarded as "primitive." There are a variety of approaches and philosophies in the training environment. You are correct that some exercises such as squats, dead lifts and free weights in general are discouraged by some schools of thought. On the flip side there are other schools of thought that emphasize those types of lifts with free weights which you are (legitimately ) wary. The bottom line is: what works and how is it monitored. The Bills in the way they structured their front office, scouting department and coaching staff were clearly out of step with not only the most successful teams in the league but with most of the teams in the league. The organization and operation starting with the owner and working down the organizational chart were very amateurish and primitive, to put it mildly. Without a doubt the caliber of operation was reflected in the organization's institutional failure. At least under Nix/Gailey there is a direction and a fresh start. Sometimes it isn't a particular philosophy that is instrumental in bringing successful change as much as everyone being on board and moving in the same direction.
purple haze Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 "Some guys haven't squatted since they left college," Whitner said. "My max was 405 [pounds] and that was three or four reps and I haven't done that since college. The way that they do it, you're not skipping a rep. They stand there and watch you. Every rep that you take they tell you what to put on there and if you can't do it, you go down a little." I think this last part of the quote bothers me more. Without getting into a philosophical debate, squatting and cleans can be hard on the back and knees. Not to debate with you just offering a different take; what you say can be true, but those problems usually occur when folks don't build up the strength and stamina in their legs and back first. I see it at the gym all the time; guys want to put the most weight on and do their reps. Even though they might be able to do a particular weight they may not have developed the muscle strength to deal with the after effects of that weight, then they start to develop knee and back problems. Nothing done on a machine will give a better result than using free weight IMO. After a while out of the gym I fell into this trap and started getting a sore knee. Started using lighter weight to build strength back up in the muscle surrounding the knee. Then eventually once I did, what is for me, heavier weight my knee was fine. If I recall correctly when Gailey changed the weight room around they also ordered new equipment (more free weights) and there was a comment about machines being taken out. Machine's, to me, are good for sustaining strength, but not so much building it once a lifter has reached a certain strength plateau.
purple haze Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I hate doing legs myself, but I always kind of assumed that NFL players did squats! Are you freakin kidding me? Couldn't believe this when I read it either. Eat your vegetables! don't hate doing legs; see leg work as keeping your body in balance. I used to hate doing legs too and would do less legs than upper body work and it caused all types of knee pain. That convinced me to get in better balance.
Bob in STL Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 bull ****. Squats are NOT bad for the knees or back. Just like anything if you do it stupidly then you are gonna get hurt. And Olympic style lifts are now the thing to be doing. Agree. The pendulum was swung back to olympic style lifts. Technique is important. Sounds like the coaches are watching the players for a reason. We have two strength coaches, each has a different specialty. Thank you Chan for getting us out of the dark ages. Chan also took the TVs down in the training rooms. Club Dick is over.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Eat your vegetables! don't hate doing legs; see leg work as keeping your body in balance. I used to hate doing legs too and would do less legs than upper body work and it caused all types of knee pain. That convinced me to get in better balance. theres nothing funnier than seeing a guy with huge biceps and tiny little chicken legged calves
purple haze Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 theres nothing funnier than seeing a guy with huge biceps and tiny little chicken legged calves I know, right? LoL Terrible.
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 theres nothing funnier than seeing a guy with huge biceps and tiny little chicken legged calves +1 Oh but 'what can you bench'
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 +1 Oh but 'what can you bench' There's a reason no one works on legs. They're HARD.
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 There's a reason no one works on legs. They're HARD. Exactly
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Exactly Even doing bodyweight squats is tough. Depending on your routine, you'll be walking like Frankenstein
Thurman#1 Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/05/27/1064...work-under.html Are you !@#$ing kidding me? No cleans, No squats? No wonder our guys legs were getting blown out and our linemen sucked....no !@#$ing leg strength! In all seriousness, if this team wasn't doing squats as the baseline for their leg strength....Holy **** that explains a LOT! Man most high school football teams use the Squat, hang clean and bench as the baselines to their programs. BTW I love the fact the coaches monitor ever rep in the squat to ensure both safety and effectiveness. I like the part if they can't do it they lighten it some. That is SMART strength training. Im sorry but an NFL team not squatting just blows me away. It didn't say "no squatting." But what it does say is bad enough. I knew something was wrong there, I've been calling for Allaire's scalp for more than a year now. Loudly.
Thurman#1 Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 TV's ARE BAD! Look when you hit the weight room it is time to get pumped, focused, pissed off and get stronger than ****! There is no time for foo foo bull **** and there sure as hell isn't time for TV. You are there for a greater purpose and that is to get nasty strong!!!! Egg-freaking-zactly!!!!!!!!!!
GaryPinC Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 bull ****. Squats are NOT bad for the knees or back. Just like anything if you do it stupidly then you are gonna get hurt. And Olympic style lifts are now the thing to be doing. Incredibly ignorant statement. Just to clarify, I greatly prefer free weights to work out. I do believe in doing core exercises such as bench and squat. I was also strictly taught form and always being in control of the weights, 1003 count on the negatives, explode through the positives, never lock out knees and elbows. I had proper depth of squats hammered into me. I don't worry about the weight, I simply worry about form, control, and high intensity. Increases in weight or reps then take care of themselves. Putting hundreds of pounds on your back has the potential to be VERY bad for your back, knees. Oh, I know. With proper form your back is fine. Maybe, maybe not. Even with perfect form, you are still compressing your vertebrae, because that's what happens when your body physically has to support hundreds of pounds to allow your muscles to exercise. After you're done maybe your spine decompresses on it's own. Maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, you've just increased your chances at a pinched nerve or herniated disc. And maybe you don't injure it while squatting but it weakens the area and then you injure it the next day doing something completely different. There are 2 components to weight lifting: the ability of your muscles to lift the weight, and the ability of your bones, joints, tendons, and ligaments to handle the load of the weight. And as you get older, (I'm 40) there's this little thing called inflammation that you scarcely knew existed in your teens and 20's starts to creep in to your joints even with perfect form . Also, your cartiliage can wear down, your tendons and ligaments lose some strength and elasticity. I still squat, but if I've not done it awhile I need to do leg extensions, leg curls, and leg press to make sure I can handle the weight and the movement without injuring something or overstretching my ligaments. Just as an example, I gave up deadlifting at the end of high school. I am 6'2" and have fairly long legs but arms are not that long. While deadlifting, the bar was always knocking my knees on the way up. Taking an extra wide stance to clear the bar hurt my knee joint, leaning out a little farther hurt my back. Ended up leaning out a little farther but decided to give the lift up. Shorter guys who don't have to bend their knees as much probably never have this issue. Everyone is constructed differently. I mean alignment of muscles, joints, tendons, ligaments, nerves can all have subtle alignment differences which can influence the ability to perform a lift (even with perfect form). The length of the arms, legs, the way someone stands, all of this. There is more than one way to skin a cat. While I agree that core lifts are best, some people's bodies can't handle certain types of lifts even when using perfect form. If that's the case you adjust for core lifts with a series of isolated ones that try to hit all the same muscle groups (and don't completely make up for a good core lift like a squat) but save wear and tear and increase your strength. That's the crux of Ross Tucker's article (tailoring the workout to the individual) and I obviously agree with him. Those who believe that squats won't or can't hurt your back/knees, well that might be true for some of you but the rest will see the truth in time. As for Allaire's crew, I can allow them to substitue core lifts for a series of others to save wear and tear on the back, knees, elbows. It's completely unacceptable that they'd allow the players to cheat their workouts.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I am about as far as you get from a professional athlete but how was Donte Whitner only squatting 405 for 3 or 4 when graduating from Ohio State and being picked in the top 15 of the NFL Draft? I went to Webster High School in New York and we had at least 8 or 10 guys doing this in HIGH SCHOOL. Not all of them were lineman either. I was only 205 at the time and was doing 405 for 12. (This isn't about me so don't say I'm a tough guy or anything like that) My point is, how does an NFL caliber player only squat 405 for 3 or 4? I can't help but question work ethic in that case. Maybe it's just me. I went to Webster myself, and when I was there at least a few football players, if not more, were doing steroids. Coincidence?
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 Incredibly ignorant statement. Just to clarify, I greatly prefer free weights to work out. I do believe in doing core exercises such as bench and squat. I was also strictly taught form and always being in control of the weights, 1003 count on the negatives, explode through the positives, never lock out knees and elbows. I had proper depth of squats hammered into me. I don't worry about the weight, I simply worry about form, control, and high intensity. Increases in weight or reps then take care of themselves. Putting hundreds of pounds on your back has the potential to be VERY bad for your back, knees. Oh, I know. With proper form your back is fine. Maybe, maybe not. Even with perfect form, you are still compressing your vertebrae, because that's what happens when your body physically has to support hundreds of pounds to allow your muscles to exercise. After you're done maybe your spine decompresses on it's own. Maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, you've just increased your chances at a pinched nerve or herniated disc. And maybe you don't injure it while squatting but it weakens the area and then you injure it the next day doing something completely different. There are 2 components to weight lifting: the ability of your muscles to lift the weight, and the ability of your bones, joints, tendons, and ligaments to handle the load of the weight. And as you get older, (I'm 40) there's this little thing called inflammation that you scarcely knew existed in your teens and 20's starts to creep in to your joints even with perfect form . Also, your cartiliage can wear down, your tendons and ligaments lose some strength and elasticity. I still squat, but if I've not done it awhile I need to do leg extensions, leg curls, and leg press to make sure I can handle the weight and the movement without injuring something or overstretching my ligaments. Just as an example, I gave up deadlifting at the end of high school. I am 6'2" and have fairly long legs but arms are not that long. While deadlifting, the bar was always knocking my knees on the way up. Taking an extra wide stance to clear the bar hurt my knee joint, leaning out a little farther hurt my back. Ended up leaning out a little farther but decided to give the lift up. Shorter guys who don't have to bend their knees as much probably never have this issue. Everyone is constructed differently. I mean alignment of muscles, joints, tendons, ligaments, nerves can all have subtle alignment differences which can influence the ability to perform a lift (even with perfect form). The length of the arms, legs, the way someone stands, all of this. There is more than one way to skin a cat. While I agree that core lifts are best, some people's bodies can't handle certain types of lifts even when using perfect form. If that's the case you adjust for core lifts with a series of isolated ones that try to hit all the same muscle groups (and don't completely make up for a good core lift like a squat) but save wear and tear and increase your strength. That's the crux of Ross Tucker's article (tailoring the workout to the individual) and I obviously agree with him. Those who believe that squats won't or can't hurt your back/knees, well that might be true for some of you but the rest will see the truth in time. As for Allaire's crew, I can allow them to substitue core lifts for a series of others to save wear and tear on the back, knees, elbows. It's completely unacceptable that they'd allow the players to cheat their workouts. Ignorant my ass. Squats are NOT bad for the knees, doing any leg work wrong is bad for the knees. Ignorance is saying Squats are bad when in fact they aren't.
Recommended Posts