metzelaars_lives Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I hate doing legs myself, but I always kind of assumed that NFL players did squats! Are you freakin kidding me? Couldn't believe this when I read it either.
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I seriously doubt anyone on the previous staff was preventing players from squating...more likely, they were letting them do their own thing (thinking, as Marv used to, that they're "mature" enough to put in the work). Still, it puts another nail in Jauron's reputational coffin... This Ross Tucker story gets to the heart of the injury problems the Bills suffered. One thing doesn't add up in Tucker's piece. He claims that S&C coaches are all over the map with their programs and no consistency, etc. Then he claims that the best programs allow the athletes themselves to design their own programs since they know best. WTF? If the people that hold a full-time job researching, monitoring, and thinking about how to best train athletes don't know what they are doing, it is impossible to believe that each of the roughly 2000 NFL players out there "knows best" and is more qualified.
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 Squats are terrible for your knees, back, & hips and the muscles worked can be done so doing other exercises. Heavy olympic style lifts are becoming regarded as "primitive." bull ****. Squats are NOT bad for the knees or back. Just like anything if you do it stupidly then you are gonna get hurt. And Olympic style lifts are now the thing to be doing.
Lurker Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 That an NFL player is about a strong as me in any lifting category is a sad indictment of the team's training regimen. The players aren't Supermen. There are a lot of guys outside the NFL who are as strong, if not stronger, than some players. But they're sitting home on Sunday drinking beer. Being able to lift a house is pointless if you don't have the speed, skill and mental intangibles to play in the NFL. Cutting down on injuries is a better goal than just lifting 'more'...
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 One thing doesn't add up in Tucker's piece. He claims that S&C coaches are all over the map with their programs and no consistency, etc. Then he claims that the best programs allow the athletes themselves to design their own programs since they know best. WTF? If the people that hold a full-time job researching, monitoring, and thinking about how to best train athletes don't know what they are doing, it is impossible to believe that each of the roughly 2000 NFL players out there "knows best" and is more qualified. I agree. I am not high at all on letting athletes put together or monitor themselfs. The Jerry Rice's of the world are very few and far between. Give these kids tons of money and let them do their own thing, no way in hell they work as hard as having someone make them work their asses off.
Lurker Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Then he claims that the best programs allow the athletes themselves to design their own programs since they know best. I read that to mean the players and the S&C staff develop individualized training regimes, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach. If the player thinks he's part of the 'plan,' he'll buy into it more...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 One thing doesn't add up in Tucker's piece. He claims that S&C coaches are all over the map with their programs and no consistency, etc. Then he claims that the best programs allow the athletes themselves to design their own programs since they know best. WTF? If the people that hold a full-time job researching, monitoring, and thinking about how to best train athletes don't know what they are doing, it is impossible to believe that each of the roughly 2000 NFL players out there "knows best" and is more qualified. I agree. I am not high at all on letting athletes put together or monitor themselfs. The Jerry Rice's of the world are very few and far between. Give these kids tons of money and let them do their own thing, no way in hell they work as hard as having someone make them work their asses off. Id agree with the "design your own workout" philosophy if, as Darth said, everyone was a Jerry Rice. Every body is different. An exercise routine may help you put on 15 pounds of muscle and not do a thing for me. Preacher Curls may really help you strengthen your Biceps, but Dumbell Curls work better for me, etc. By the time athletes get to the pro level, they should be well aware of what works for their body and what doesnt. The problem though isnt knowledge of what works, it's motivation and dedication to do it. Regardless, I do agree that there should be at least a basic routine laid out for each position. With maybe some small variation depending on the individual.
Beantown Bills Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 bull ****. Squats are NOT bad for the knees or back. Just like anything if you do it stupidly then you are gonna get hurt. And Olympic style lifts are now the thing to be doing. Agree 100%. Power lifting moves were considered primitive but have become en vogue again because they recruit more muscle groups into their movements. Isolation exercises are becoming less popular, arguably because they put unnecessary strain on a single joint. I'd also argue that when done correctly, squat are the singular best exercise to increase lower body strength (quads, hips and glutes), not to mention increased bone mass and thus strength.
shoretalk Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 i guess we werent in the wrong with all of the "Bring back Rusty Jones" threads. even if it wasnt Rusty Jones specifically, anything was better than what we had since he left. cant get over no squatting either. it's one of the best and most basic power exercises. It's so sad that we have been the #1 team in injuries for the last few years ... the firing of Rusty Jones was one of the worst moves the Bills' ever made! The more we learn about what was going on at One Bills Drive the easier it is to understand what happened during the Dick years ... It's not that the TV's were bad ... it's the fact that the players were not "coached" into getting into football playing shape. It sounds like they were doing less than I did when I played high school football more than 25 years ago.
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 Agree 100%. Power lifting moves were considered primitive but have become en vogue again because they recruit more muscle groups into their movements. Isolation exercises are becoming less popular, arguably because they put unnecessary strain on a single joint. I'd also argue that when done correctly, squat are the singular best exercise to increase lower body strength (quads, hips and glutes), not to mention increased bone mass and thus strength. Personally I feel the Deadlift is the best, same muscle groups in a more natural motion. But for someone to still pull this 'Squats are bad for the knees' stuff is someone that has not read the research nor put tons of plates on the bar, chalked up and SQUATTED!
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 It's so sad that we have been the #1 team in injuries for the last few years ... the firing of Rusty Jones was one of the worst moves the Bills' ever made! The more we learn about what was going on at One Bills Drive the easier it is to understand what happened during the Dick years ... It's not that the TV's were bad ... it's the fact that the players were not "coached" into getting into football playing shape. It sounds like they were doing less than I did when I played high school football more than 25 years ago. TV's ARE BAD! Look when you hit the weight room it is time to get pumped, focused, pissed off and get stronger than ****! There is no time for foo foo bull **** and there sure as hell isn't time for TV. You are there for a greater purpose and that is to get nasty strong!!!!
GOBILLS78 Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 TV's ARE BAD! Look when you hit the weight room it is time to get pumped, focused, pissed off and get stronger than ****! There is no time for foo foo bull **** and there sure as hell isn't time for TV. You are there for a greater purpose and that is to get nasty strong!!!! RAAAAGE!
WotAGuy Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 TV's ARE BAD! Look when you hit the weight room it is time to get pumped, focused, pissed off and get stronger than ****! There is no time for foo foo bull **** and there sure as hell isn't time for TV. You are there for a greater purpose and that is to get nasty strong!!!! Now We're Talkin'!!
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I read that to mean the players and the S&C staff develop individualized training regimes, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach. If the player thinks he's part of the 'plan,' he'll buy into it more... After re-reading it, I think you may be right. I'd think the best program is neither one that is dictated by an expert in his ivory tower nor one that is just up to the user to figure it out. A program where the best techniques are taught, best principles are used with attention to detail, and feedback from the athletes in terms of both their likes and dislikes as well as testing and monitoring. I guess it was the "likes and dislikes" part that threw me a bit. I may dislike swimming 50 laps in the pool every morning, but if I can see that it is helping me be stronger then my "dislike" is secondary and I may actually end up liking the activity.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 One thing doesn't add up in Tucker's piece. He claims that S&C coaches are all over the map with their programs and no consistency, etc. Then he claims that the best programs allow the athletes themselves to design their own programs since they know best. WTF? If the people that hold a full-time job researching, monitoring, and thinking about how to best train athletes don't know what they are doing, it is impossible to believe that each of the roughly 2000 NFL players out there "knows best" and is more qualified. I felt that Tucker's piece was just his musings on the subject. There was almost nothing he said that would be a definitive statement…all general beliefs that he holds. I like Tucker's work but this was not his best effort. Just a general opinion piece. bull ****. Squats are NOT bad for the knees or back. Just like anything if you do it stupidly then you are gonna get hurt. And Olympic style lifts are now the thing to be doing. There are trends and practices that go in and out of vogue. There are also a multitude of different methods and many different workouts that employ many of these methods. Almost no two workout strategies are the same, depending upon the sport, the individual, and the trainer. Because of that, I think it's very difficult to make any definitive statements about what "the best" workout is. I thought the best point that Tucker made was that you want to tailor your workout for the position (D-line, DB, etc). Think about it. Do you think that the workout for Olympic sprinters varies that much? I would guess that in highly specialized sports (swimming, pole vaulting) the workouts are heavily-researched and dialed-in to help them excel in their specialty. Football is not specialized to the degree that many of the Olympic type sports are. So the workout regimen should start with what S&C coaches agree that all football players need. All football players have a small overlap of similar tasks on the field. Movements and tasks that are common to all positions (hand fighting, push blocking versus holding the point). Some of the movements a pass rusher would use might be similar to the movement a tight end uses to defeat a linebacker jam at the line of scrimmage. After that it becomes specialized very quickly. DBs have very different movements than guards (Tucker spoke of players at different positions almost playing a different sport). To that end, the most encouraging thing to me is that the Bills have one coach for linemen and another coach for the so-called skill position players.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 "Some guys haven't squatted since they left college," Whitner said. "My max was 405 [pounds] and that was three or four reps and I haven't done that since college. The way that they do it, you're not skipping a rep. They stand there and watch you. Every rep that you take they tell you what to put on there and if you can't do it, you go down a little." I think this last part of the quote bothers me more. Without getting into a philosophical debate, squatting and cleans can be hard on the back and knees. There are alternatives, such as leg press, and some S&T coaches may prefer to utilize alternatives. Regardless of what exercises the players are told to do, Donte's quote implies that the S&T coaches really didn't keep tabs on the QUALITY of the player's workouts and that is simply unacceptable. Leg presses do NOT substitute for squats. There are no better exercises for the quads, hams, glutes than the squat. Combined with deadlifts, squats make for the most formidable of exercises.
loyalbillsfan Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 I know!!!!! My jaw almost hit the floor when I read that. Our old s & c program was a joke...and that's an understatement!
DarthICE Posted May 28, 2010 Author Posted May 28, 2010 Leg presses do NOT substitute for squats. There are no better exercises for the quads, hams, glutes than the squat. Combined with deadlifts, squats make for the most formidable of exercises. Bingo!
Endless Ike Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 Squats are terrible for your knees, back, & hips and the muscles worked can be done so doing other exercises. Heavy olympic style lifts are becoming regarded as "primitive." what a crock of ****
Endless Ike Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 That Donte's max squat is 405 bothers me a helluva lot more than any other part of that. I never "max" out my squats but before a recent injury, I did 50 reps twice a week at 305...and I'm a 6'2" 175 lb 39yo guy. I could probably max out at a stone throw from 405 and be at 405 in no time if that was my goal (it's not especially not post torn hamstring tendon). Now granted I have strong legs compared to a lot of people but I'm not an Olympic lifter and I'm not a pro athlete. I just work out a lot, cycle, and play a lot of basketball. That an NFL player is about a strong as me in any lifting category is a sad indictment of the team's training regimen. I'm glad to hear it's changing. And I am a firm believer in the squat. It's not as hard on the knees if proper form is used and no NFL player should be doing ANYTHING in the weight room that hurts their knees. You also probably don't even go close to parallel, no offense...maybe 1 out of every 10 or 15 guys I see doing squats gets anywhere close ot a good lift
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