U.S. manufacturing

[el Tigre]

OK,first of all I'm not much into politics cuz I can't stand the petty,partisan bickering. I'm asking an honest question here and would like to hear opinions from all sides. It seems to me that the U.S was at it's best when we had a strong manufacturing base that provided for a huge middle class. It makes sense,producing what you consume makes for a healthy economic cycle. Why has our manufacturing base disappeared and can it ever come back? If not, is there any industry that could potentially provide the jobs the manufacturing base once did? What effect would policies like tariffs have?

[Fingon]

It's because our society has reached the level that it is no longer profitable for workers in this country to make our goods.

[Magox]

Overseas = Cheap Labor

 

Unions = more expensive labor

 

more expensive labor + Overseas cheaper labor = U.S deterioration of the manufacturing sector

[ExiledInIllinois]

I fall on the "it is environmental side."

 

No way can we compete and continue to grow if we have to deal with unrealistic environmental controls that others in the world do not have to deal with.

 

I know I get on my soapbox about this whole fish posioning thing... Case in point is the 7,500 tons of steel that got delayed:

 

7,500 Tons of Steel

 

"Long and the company he works for aren't losing money by having the barges sit idle, but the customers are paying more for the shipping, Long said. "If it has to sit for four or five days, it's adding to the cost of shipping," he said.

 

That is 7,500 not 75k... As noted by yours truly!

[ExiledInIllinois]

Overseas = Cheap Labor

 

Unions = more expensive labor

 

more expensive labor + Overseas cheaper labor = U.S deterioration of the manufacturing sector

 

Red herring. Environmental trumps labor.

[Magox]

Red herring. Environmental trumps labor.

ok

[meazza]

ok

 

 

He's right, it's not because countries with cheap labor have a comparative advantage

[billsfan89]

Ronald Reagan there was a reason the manufacturing sector went off a cliff during the 1980's. You can blame unions and environmentalists as well. But in the book The Man Who Sold the World: Ronald Reagan and the Betrayal of Main Street America by William Kleinknecht (Which I had to read for a class and thought was a little miss leading in its criticisms) it makes a clear and solid criticism of Reagan's trade policy.

 

Although a lot of products are still made in the USA something like 55% of products bought in the USA are made in the USA

[outsidethebox]

one word. GREED!

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

He's right, it's not because countries with cheap labor have a comparative advantage

 

I am not saying that. They do have a comparative advantage, but it starts with the eviron.

 

Why do you think Brazil and the Amazon transportation system is quietly going to become the "bread basket of the world."

 

Sure manu went first and early... Just wait til ag goes.

[el Tigre]

So are they any alternatives to losing our manufacturing jobs? Do protectionist policies like tariffs help or hurt? How can we possibly compete against countries where labor is paid ridiculously low wages? Is it a battle that we've already lost,and are we destined to a lower and lower standard of living?

[ExiledInIllinois]

Don't get me wrong... There is a labor gap, yet other places aren't even playing on the same field as the US when it comes to the environ. I would believe it was soley labor if the the rest of the world and especially China wasn't a festering environ bunghole.

 

Playing by the same environmental rules would lessen that gap. Of course modernization and the streaming of tranportation systems doesn't help... So we are really playing with both hands tied behind our backs.

 

With what we are dealing with in the midwest and the inlands right now is case in point. This is what one envrionmentalist wrote:

 

"I think the real question is, why is that 100 years ago Chicago was able to think big and construct the Waterway System, but today we are unable to think big enough to fix it?"

 

Fix what? Nothing is broken.

 

No doubt we can think "big"... But at what cost?... Now I might be wrong, but this guy is probably an out of touch environmental lawyer... Sure sky is the limit for him, now they want to raise the cost of our transportation system. Again, it is surely a receipe for disaster... No doubt that grain will be grown in Brazil where they are ripping up rainforest by the day. You want others feeding us?

 

Something has to give and we have to start throttling back on the environmental BS or either start pushing others to play on the same field.

[billsfan89]

So are they any alternatives to losing our manufacturing jobs? Do protectionist policies like tariffs help or hurt? How can we possibly compete against countries where labor is paid ridiculously low wages? Is it a battle that we've already lost,and we're destined to a lower and lower standard of living?

 

A lot of stuff is still made in the USA just because you won't find it in a Walmart doesn't mean America doesn't make stuff. The official numbers place the number of USA made goods purchased in the USA is somewhere between 55-65% now that's down from the 1950's were it was something like 82-90%. But to say nothing is made in America isn't true. Also out of everything made in the world 25% is made in America.

 

So all in all stuff is still made in the USA just not as much as it use to be.

[Doc]

The answer is (ta da): it's cheaper to make stuff in other countries and import them here. That answer includes cheaper labor, less environmental restrictions, import-friendly and export-unfriendly laws, etc.

[ExiledInIllinois]

The answer is (ta da): it's cheaper to make stuff in other countries and import them here. That answer includes cheaper labor, less environmental restrictions, import-friendly and export-unfriendly laws, etc.

 

 

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!

[Magox]

So are they any alternatives to losing our manufacturing jobs? Do protectionist policies like tariffs help or hurt? How can we possibly compete against countries where labor is paid ridiculously low wages? Is it a battle that we've already lost,and we're destined to a lower and lower standard of living?

We've got to have good relations with China and tap into that growing market. There are all sorts of possibilities that could help create more manufacturing jobs over here. If I were an advisor to the president, I would suggest that we negotiate with them day and night, trying to build strong trade ties between the two. The opportunities are almost endless, and I would make it priority #1, because tapping into that exploding market could help the U.S create a sustained labor market.

 

Protectionist measures is a horrible short-sighted idea, that wouldn't help with our economic cooperation with China. Next thing you know, we will have a trade war with them, and they would slap tariffs right back at us.

 

It would help if we could lower our wages to be more competitive with these other nations, but that will never happen, unions would never go for that. That's too bad.

[PastaJoe]

It would help if we could lower our executive compensation and profit margins to be more competitive with these other nations, but that will never happen, executives and majority stockholders would never go for that. That's too bad.

 

Corrected.

[ExiledInIllinois]

We've got to have good relations with China and tap into that growing market. There are all sorts of possibilities that could help create more manufacturing jobs over here. If I were an advisor to the president, I would suggest that we negotiate with them day and night, trying to build strong trade ties between the two. The opportunities are almost endless, and I would make it priority #1, because tapping into that exploding market could help the U.S create a sustained labor market.

 

Protectionist measures is a horrible short-sighted idea, that wouldn't help with our economic cooperation with China. Next thing you know, we will have a trade war with them, and they would slap tariffs right back at us.

 

It would help if we could lower our wages to be more competitive with these other nations, but that will never happen, unions would never go for that. That's too bad.

 

So in other words the working man has to take the hit and lower their living standards to the other countries. Why not play on the same enviro field first... That would surely jack up the price of Chinese made goods... Heck, what a mess over there... It might actually make their products too expensive! We can't keep on protecting our enviro and turn a blatant blind-eye overseas.

 

Why don't we raise them up to our standards (living and the ecology).

[DC Tom]

Corrected.

 

Yeah, executive pay is what destroyed American manufacturing.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Yeah, executive pay is what destroyed American manufacturing.

 

I don't get the impression that he is saying that. If the common man is expected to take a hit... At least put the big shots in the same ball park. It could only help in keeping them here inthe states.

 

The bottom line is... They don't want the companies here. The companies do not want to be her either. Who wants heavy industry in their back yard? Too much hassle in America. I heard stories from people who used to live near Marblehead Lime in South Chicago. The squeaky wheel would get the grease... You complain that one day you car is covered with crap, they send a company rep with a check to take care of it... Or else the company gets blown in. Which company wants to deal with that. They can just rape the environment in some far awya place... And the American people eat the goods up and recycle their squiggly bulbs (with Hg) thinking that they are "doing something." Where do you think that Hg is stockpiled during the manufacturing phase?

 

Labor is equally as much a "hassle."

 

We are being "played."