sllib olaffub Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 I was just reading the posts on here about Flutie - how he was the fourth best QB in our 50 years of history, and there were responses along the lines, "how pathetic is it that we've only had three or four good QB's in 50 years!" When I look at our QB situation in that context - of 50 years of ineptitude - and I wonder why we don't just go out next year and find a star QB at all costs! Trade whatever we've got to trade to get the guy who we're convinced is capable of being a star. Bring in a few guys - baltimore's second stringer comes to mind - and maybe draft another QB - if it takes bringing in three or four QB's to find the right one, then do it. It'd be great to be able to get a QB, LT, maybe a WR and OLB or TE in one offseason. But, WHEN WE'VE BEEN AS BAD AS WE'VE BEEN AT BRINGING IN A FRANCHISE QB, IT'S TIME TO FOCUS SOLELY ON FINDING ONE. I can see someone saying, "o.k., sure, we need to focus on QB, but how do we go about it, then?" My response to that would be draft the best one in the draft - just get the best one, regardless of what we've got to trade to get him - and then maybe bring in a young QB with potential, and if we can draft another one whose supposed to be good, then do it - who cares if people say, why draft another one when they just grabbed one? I don't think it'd be a waste to devote an offseason - to make solving the QB problem the top priority - our next offseason.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 Wow I didn't know it was that easy thanks for the insight. I forgot that there are great franchise qbs just chillin' on every corner waiting to be plucked up by any team in need that passes by.
Wagon Circler Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 Your post actually makes a lot of sense. I don't mind that they have obviously waited a year to find a QB when they had so many other needs. But next year they have to go all out to find one. Please ignore the comment of the previous witless assbrain.
JohnC Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 Wow I didn't know it was that easy thanks for the insight. I forgot that there are great franchise qbs just chillin' on every corner waiting to be plucked up by any team in need that passes by. Marv Levy's first market qb selection was Craig Nall. I'm sure he would be interested in another try.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 i dont disagree much with the OP. if we have to trade away half our picks next year to move up and get the best QB, then so be it. then spend our 5th, 6th, and 7th on lineman or something.
sllib olaffub Posted May 22, 2010 Author Posted May 22, 2010 I didn't mean to suggest a franchise QB was remotely easy to find. What I meant was instead of going after one QB and using the rest of our draft picks on other positions, and maybe a few F.A.'s at other positions - even if we pick a QB with our first draft pick - I just think it's too important and we've been in need of one for too long to roll the dice on one guy. We should be sure we get the best prospect in the draft - but, we shouldn't stop there. We should bring in as many guys as we need in order to be sure we go into next season with a franchise calibre QB. When I look at Peyton Manning - he seems like he makes WR's look like pro-bowlers. He's certainly one of the best of all time, but tell me it wouldn't be worth it to set our team back one year drafting in order to get a guy that will be very good for the next decade. (as a for instance - had Ditka given up all his picks for a guy like Manning, I don't think anyone would question that ten years later...) You can't be sure that a rookie QB is going to be that good, but you can bring in maybe three and be reasonably sure that one will end up being good.
machinegun12 Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 I was just reading the posts on here about Flutie - how he was the fourth best QB in our 50 years of history, and there were responses along the lines, "how pathetic is it that we've only had three or four good QB's in 50 years!" When I look at our QB situation in that context - of 50 years of ineptitude - and I wonder why we don't just go out next year and find a star QB at all costs! Trade whatever we've got to trade to get the guy who we're convinced is capable of being a star. Bring in a few guys - baltimore's second stringer comes to mind - and maybe draft another QB - if it takes bringing in three or four QB's to find the right one, then do it. It'd be great to be able to get a QB, LT, maybe a WR and OLB or TE in one offseason. But, WHEN WE'VE BEEN AS BAD AS WE'VE BEEN AT BRINGING IN A FRANCHISE QB, IT'S TIME TO FOCUS SOLELY ON FINDING ONE. I can see someone saying, "o.k., sure, we need to focus on QB, but how do we go about it, then?" My response to that would be draft the best one in the draft - just get the best one, regardless of what we've got to trade to get him - and then maybe bring in a young QB with potential, and if we can draft another one whose supposed to be good, then do it - who cares if people say, why draft another one when they just grabbed one? I don't think it'd be a waste to devote an offseason - to make solving the QB problem the top priority - our next offseason. I know this wasn't the point of the post...but we've had pretty good QBs...Jim Kelly, Jack Kemp, Joe Ferguson, Drew Bledsoe, Doug Flutie.... Why don't you try naming some good QBs for the Detroit Lions, Arizona Cardinals (Kurt Warner was probably their all-time best and they had him for what, 3-4 seasons?), Tampa Bay Buccaneers (Testaverde, anyone?), New York Jets (Namath is a hall of famer, but his numbers say otherwise), Chicago Bears (if it's Jim McMahon, that's sad), Atlanta Falcons, and I won't consider the Panthers or Texans yet, the Jags had a very good one in Brunell for a while... I guess it goes to show how hard it really is to find even one or two great ones over an extended period of time. (I'm not suggesting Flutie or Ferguson were great, but they appear to be just as solid as some franchise's best QBs ever).
PromoTheRobot Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 I think the Bills should only sign and draft great players. You're welcome. PTR
ganesh Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 i dont disagree much with the OP. if we have to trade away half our picks next year to move up and get the best QB, then so be it. then spend our 5th, 6th, and 7th on lineman or something. Coming out of the college, Jamarcus Russell was considered the can't miss propsect and went #1 overall. If we were to go by your route, we should have mortgaged our future and traded for Russell. The NFL Draft is a crap shoot. There have been many "can't miss" propects from Kyle Boller to Brady Quinn to Russell and I am sure teams have figured out how to draft a franchise QB.
thewildrabbit Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 What is Payton Manning going to make after he gets his new contract, 20 mill a year? What bonus money did the Raiders pay Russell and then cut him because he was lazy and had no work ethic to play better...40 mill? The Bills can't afford to screw themselves with a Russell 1st pick overall that fails. I'm thinking this franchise has a history of losing... but not bad enough to constantly get the #1 overall. So they don't often get a chance to fail like so many really bad teams that choose the wrong QB year after year. The SD Chargers took Ryan Leaf before they found Phillip Rivers, the Bengals took Akili Smith before they found Carson Palmer, Cleveland is STILL waiting to draft a decent QB -Art Schlichter- St Louis Cardinals- Steve Pisarkiewicz, QB-Raiders Todd Marinovich- 49ers Jim Druckenmiller- Redskins Patrick Ramsey...The list of flops is basically almost endless. Is Colt McCoy finally the answer in Cleveland, with his under powered arm? The only way the Bills can think they will pick the right guy is to KNOW they have the right guy at GM, it would make logical sense to pass on a QB this year and evaluate the talent before letting him choose a top QB, that is if you are Ralph Wilson
sllib olaffub Posted May 23, 2010 Author Posted May 23, 2010 Sure, some franchises have had it worse than us at QB - and, I'm not saying we should mortgage everything on who the experts say is the best QB - regarding Russell - I'm saying we should get the guy Gailey and Nix believe is capable of being a franchise QB. I personally think they like some of the QB's coming out next year, which is why they passed on McCoy and Clausen - and I hope they get him next year no matter where we end up slotted to pick. No matter what people say here there will be people quick to say the opposite. My point was simply that we should have no excuses next year when it comes to QB. All things considered, I would think a good GM and good Coach, given 2 seasons of draft and F.A., should be able to find a QB that can get you into the playoffs - this was more of a "what would you do approach" kind of post, because I do believe they'll get their guy next offseason; and, I still have hope they can win this year with Brohm or Edwards, or even Brown.
Pilsner Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 I was just reading the posts on here about Flutie - how he was the fourth best QB in our 50 years of history, and there were responses along the lines, "how pathetic is it that we've only had three or four good QB's in 50 years!" When I look at our QB situation in that context - of 50 years of ineptitude - and I wonder why we don't just go out next year and find a star QB at all costs! Trade whatever we've got to trade to get the guy who we're convinced is capable of being a star. Bring in a few guys - baltimore's second stringer comes to mind - and maybe draft another QB - if it takes bringing in three or four QB's to find the right one, then do it. It'd be great to be able to get a QB, LT, maybe a WR and OLB or TE in one offseason. But, WHEN WE'VE BEEN AS BAD AS WE'VE BEEN AT BRINGING IN A FRANCHISE QB, IT'S TIME TO FOCUS SOLELY ON FINDING ONE. I can see someone saying, "o.k., sure, we need to focus on QB, but how do we go about it, then?" My response to that would be draft the best one in the draft - just get the best one, regardless of what we've got to trade to get him - and then maybe bring in a young QB with potential, and if we can draft another one whose supposed to be good, then do it - who cares if people say, why draft another one when they just grabbed one? I don't think it'd be a waste to devote an offseason - to make solving the QB problem the top priority - our next offseason. I'm down for us doing what it takes to get our franchise qb in the draft next year. But only if our FO (and i mean Nix, Whaley and Gailey) thinks there is one available to go after who they think can excel with their offensive scheme. Only if there is one available next year. Otherwise, have another solid (in my opinion) draft like we just had. Gailey should be able to make at least one of our current qb's overachieve. I HOPE. Go Bills!!
crazyDingo Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Its impossible to tell in advance how any college/ practice squad QB will pan out. Imagine throwing your future at the next Ryan Leaf. A great cast surrounding a capable QB is probably better than some Rock Star behind center. With the Bills luck, he would get hit by a defensive back in training camp and break his leg. Then what?
Whites Bay Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Please ignore the comment of the previous witless assbrain. "Witless Assbrain". You know, I have a reasonable lexicon, but I've never heard that one. Can I use that? Because that was goddamn funny. "Rough Boys" - Pete Townsend
Pilsner Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Its impossible to tell in advance how any college/ practice squad QB will pan out. Imagine throwing your future at the next Ryan Leaf. A great cast surrounding a capable QB is probably better than some Rock Star behind center. With the Bills luck, he would get hit by a defensive back in training camp and break his leg. Then what? I want us to get our franchise qb. As always, there's never a guarantee with any new draftee. I don't want us mortgaging the future for a potential one tho. Perhaps a 1st and 2nd. Hopefully not too much more. Then we pray our investment pans out and doesn't make us look stupid. If we can get our next Jim Kelly only with a 1st round pick and no more, i will run up and down my street screaming my head off. I don't care what my neighbors will think. Who knows tho, we might hit the jackpot with a lower round qb. It's been done before. Well by other teams.
thewildrabbit Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 The thing is you don't need to draft a top QB to get one, look at NO and Drew Brees. There are lots of QB's who made it to the SB and won it and were not top draft picks, you don't necessarily need a "franchise" QB to win. The only guy I've ever seen touted as a can't miss that didn't miss was John Elway A dominate defense and power running game can help win lots of games, who knows along the way the team might just develop a franchise QB out of a young player, of course you need a great O line and coaching to be able to develop a good player into a great one.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 To those who are in favor of acquiring a franchise quarterback at any cost... Ben Roethlisberger is a big piece of crap, as far as anyone can tell. However, I don't think there's any question that he will rehabilitate his image and maybe, just maybe, redeem himself as an actual human being. I didn't make a big issue of it at the time but the Steelers actually put him on the trading block, and it was reported that the Rooney's were so angry with him that he was available at a discount. Further reports were that no teams were interested in trading for him. At the time, I called it a historic opportunity. Not for it or against it…but how often is a truly elite, franchise quarterback in his prime, available at a discount? And what happens if he turns his life around? The Steelers have apparently decided to keep Big Ben. In hindsight, it might end up that the Bills and many other teams missed out on a historic opportunity.
Thurman#1 Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 You can't be sure that a rookie QB is going to be that good, but you can bring in maybe three and be reasonably sure that one will end up being good. Although I think the overall idea of your post has some validity, this part above isn't true, not unless you manage to somehow get three first-rounders. Which won't happen.
Thurman#1 Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 There are lots of QB's who made it to the SB and won it and were not top draft picks, you don't necessarily need a "franchise" QB to win. QBs who won the SB and were not top draft picks? Lots? No. But yeah, a few. But QBs who won the SB and weren't franchise QBs? Let's look: Super Bowl-Winning Franchise QBs: Bart Starr Joe Namath Lend Dawson Johnny Unitas Roger Staubach Bob Griese Terry Bradshaw Ken Stabler Jim Plunkett Joe Montana Joe Theismann Phil Simms Troy Aikman Steve Young Brett Favre John Elway Kurt Warner Tom Brady Ben Roethlisberger Peyton Manning Eli Manning Drew Brees Super Bowl-Winning QBs Who Weren't Franchise QBs: Jim McMahon Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler (though that was Phil Simms' team. Hostetler was the backup.) Mark Rypien (though for three years he absolutely WAS a franchise QB. Something happened. I wonder if we'll ever know what it was.) Trent Dilfer Could go either way: Brad Johnson (look at his career, he was damn good. Every team that let him go ended up regretting it.) Summary: Out of 44 Super Bowls, 38 were clearly won by franchise QBs, and you should probably throw in Brad Johnson's SB win too. No non-franchise QB has ever won more than one Super Bowl. You say "you don't need a franchise QB to win it?" It looks to me like with very few exceptions, you do indeed need a franchise QB to win a Super Bowl.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Coming out of the college, Jamarcus Russell was considered the can't miss propsect and went #1 overall. If we were to go by your route, we should have mortgaged our future and traded for Russell. The NFL Draft is a crap shoot. There have been many "can't miss" propects from Kyle Boller to Brady Quinn to Russell and I am sure teams have figured out how to draft a franchise QB. by who? im sure he was highly rated by some, but i remember there being a lot of doubt surrounding Russell as well. i watch primarily SEC football, and never expected him to live up to the pick. i normally would never agree with this "at any cost" plan, but we may be seeing the best QB class in a while next year. if the scouts and FO believe the talent is there, given the number of blue chip QBs that might be in this draft, then i wouldnt mind them going hard after their guy. it's a very important position, and a major need. To those who are in favor of acquiring a franchise quarterback at any cost... Ben Roethlisberger is a big piece of crap, as far as anyone can tell. However, I don't think there's any question that he will rehabilitate his image and maybe, just maybe, redeem himself as an actual human being. I didn't make a big issue of it at the time but the Steelers actually put him on the trading block, and it was reported that the Rooney's were so angry with him that he was available at a discount. Further reports were that no teams were interested in trading for him. At the time, I called it a historic opportunity. Not for it or against it…but how often is a truly elite, franchise quarterback in his prime, available at a discount? And what happens if he turns his life around? The Steelers have apparently decided to keep Big Ben. In hindsight, it might end up that the Bills and many other teams missed out on a historic opportunity. i dont believe for a second he was really on the block. i think they put it out there, and did their best to make it known. but it was more to send Ben a message, that they will if they have to. but not yet.
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