RuntheDamnBall Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 It's more likely NYC keeps WNY afloat. PTR It definitely did before the bottom fell out of the market, and a lot of the high(ly taxed) earners took a big income hit. Before the countdown to "you're from Brooklyn, go to hell, go root for the Jets" begins (I'm from Fredonia, no jobs in Buffalo, thanks!), I recognize that back in the day the city was a pretty big siphon on state funds. And the city's not in great shape right now (no one is, as far as I can tell).
Just Jack Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 ...How many NFL teams with cities in their names actually play in stadia within their city limits? Many, but by no means not all. Lets see... AFC North (4/4) Baltimore - Baltimore Cincy - Cincy Cleveland - Cleveland Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh AFC South (4/4) Houston - Houston Indy - Indy Jacksonville - Jacksonville Tennessee - Nashville AFC East (1/4) Buffalo - Orchard Park Miami - Miami Gardens New England* - Foxboro New York - East Rutherford, NJ AFC West (4/4) Denver - Denver Kansas City - Kansas City Oakland - Oakland San Diego - San Diego NFC North (4/4) Chicago - Chicago Detroit - Detroit Green Bay - Green Bay Minnesota - Minneapolis NFC South (4/4) Atlanta - Atlanta Carolina - Charlotte New Orleans - New Orleans Tampa Bay - Tampa** NFC East (1/4) Dallas - Irving New York - East Rutherford, NJ Philadelphia - Philadelphia Washington - Landover, MD NFC West (4/4) Arizona - Glendale San Francisco - San Francisco Seattle - Seattle St. Louis - St. Louis I used the stadium address to determine where they play. 26 out of 32 play in their city/area. By area, I mean teams like New England*, Minnesota, and Arizona. **The arguement could be made that Tampa Bay does not play in Tampa Bay, but actually Tampa as that is their mailing address. Interesting that both East conferences are the ones with the most teams not playing in their "home" city.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 Nice research, Jack! I wonder whether the reason so many "east" teams play outside of the home city is because they are based in older cities with less room? Dallas does not quite fit there, but the others do... Lets see... AFC North (4/4) Baltimore - Baltimore Cincy - Cincy Cleveland - Cleveland Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh AFC South (4/4) Houston - Houston Indy - Indy Jacksonville - Jacksonville Tennessee - Nashville AFC East (1/4) Buffalo - Orchard Park Miami - Miami Gardens New England* - Foxboro New York - East Rutherford, NJ AFC West (4/4) Denver - Denver Kansas City - Kansas City Oakland - Oakland San Diego - San Diego NFC North (4/4) Chicago - Chicago Detroit - Detroit Green Bay - Green Bay Minnesota - Minneapolis NFC South (4/4) Atlanta - Atlanta Carolina - Charlotte New Orleans - New Orleans Tampa Bay - Tampa** NFC East (1/4) Dallas - Irving New York - East Rutherford, NJ Philadelphia - Philadelphia Washington - Landover, MD NFC West (4/4) Arizona - Glendale San Francisco - San Francisco Seattle - Seattle St. Louis - St. Louis I used the stadium address to determine where they play. 26 out of 32 play in their city/area. By area, I mean teams like New England*, Minnesota, and Arizona. **The arguement could be made that Tampa Bay does not play in Tampa Bay, but actually Tampa as that is their mailing address. Interesting that both East conferences are the ones with the most teams not playing in their "home" city.
SouthernMan Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 I think its a long time coming that New York State actually use some of the tax money on city's like Buffalo. They keep wasting money on New York City and its surrounding areas. Buffalonian's should be outraged that a major portion of their taxes go to support the antics of NYC. They owe Buffalo a stadium. That's been the idiot mantra of whiny WNYer's for years. It's a load of crap. Ever been to NYC? Just the Fortune 500 companies alone based there along with the massive tourism dollars generate mega millions of dollars, much of which is subject to state taxes that get distributed from the tip of Long Island to Fredonia and all parts in between. The idea that the rest of the state is somehow propping up New York City sounds like a moronic sour grapes notion that was dreamed up over a few too many boiler-makers at some gin mill in Depew. Buffalo, and all the other little hamlets throughout New York State get many financial benefits from NYC. It's not the drag on your wallet you think it is. Put that myth to rest.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 Put it next to the train station... Buffalo Central Terminal Field.
SouthernMan Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 Face it, there are far more bad weather days than good in WNY. PTR I respectfully disagree on that point tin man. Talk about the glass half empty. I've been to dozens of Bills games. For the most part, the weather has ranged anywhere from fantastic to chilly, but tolerable if dressed properly. More often than not, the conditions have been ideal. If it's 45 degrees, I don't mind a bit, as long as I'm dressed accordingly. Not long ago, I posted stats detailing game conditions (as best as I could find) for all home games throughout the 2000s. The idea that Buffalo homes games are frequently played "on the frozen tundra" is bull. Certainly, there are some cold blustery days - I don't deny it. But it's hardly the norm. Maybe 1+ games a season are crappy in The Ralph. Some seasons it's worse than others. I think 2008 was sort of a crappy year weather-wise. I imagine you worry about rusting out there. Just don't let some kid put a wet tongue on you in January or you'll have to drag him home to Mr. Beeper.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 I respectfully disagree on that point tin man. Talk about the glass half empty. I've been to dozens of Bills games. For the most part, the weather has ranged anywhere from fantastic to chilly, but tolerable if dressed properly. More often than not, the conditions have been ideal. If it's 45 degrees, I don't mind a bit, as long as I'm dressed accordingly. Not long ago, I posted stats detailing game conditions (as best as I could find) for all home games throughout the 2000s. The idea that Buffalo homes games are frequently played "on the frozen tundra" is bull. Certainly, there are some cold blustery days - I don't deny it. But it's hardly the norm. Maybe 1+ games a season are crappy in The Ralph. Some seasons it's worse than others. I think 2008 was sort of a crappy year weather-wise. I imagine you worry about rusting out there. Just don't let some kid put a wet tongue on you in January or you'll have to drag him home to Mr. Beeper. Excellent points here and on the NYC/WNY issue, but the respectful slow clap is reserved for that final sentence. Such a combination of childhood memory, WNY inside joking and implied double entendre is as precious as it is rare. Well played.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 I respectfully disagree on that point tin man. Talk about the glass half empty. I've been to dozens of Bills games. For the most part, the weather has ranged anywhere from fantastic to chilly, but tolerable if dressed properly. More often than not, the conditions have been ideal. If it's 45 degrees, I don't mind a bit, as long as I'm dressed accordingly. Not long ago, I posted stats detailing game conditions (as best as I could find) for all home games throughout the 2000s. The idea that Buffalo homes games are frequently played "on the frozen tundra" is bull. Certainly, there are some cold blustery days - I don't deny it. But it's hardly the norm. Maybe 1+ games a season are crappy in The Ralph. Some seasons it's worse than others. I think 2008 was sort of a crappy year weather-wise. I imagine you worry about rusting out there. Just don't let some kid put a wet tongue on you in January or you'll have to drag him home to Mr. Beeper. I'm have gone to Bills games since 1969 and have some pretty vivid memories of some horrific game conditions. The game where an AZ Cardinals punter kicked into the wind, only to have the ball sail back over his head into the end zone...the recent "twisted goal posts" game versus New England...-3 before wind chill vs the Raiders...It could be all sunshine and rainbows the rest of the season but those kinds of conditions make a reputation. If there ever was a city that needed a dome it's Buffalo. Also, if we are talking about building a facility in the Falls that could attract major events like a Final Four, you have to have a dome. If you build an open-air stadium it's usefulness is limited. BTW, Jack...You may have to move the 49ers to the out-of-town list if they build their new stadium in Santa Clara. PTR
PromoTheRobot Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 That's been the idiot mantra of whiny WNYer's for years. It's a load of crap. Ever been to NYC? Just the Fortune 500 companies alone based there along with the massive tourism dollars generate mega millions of dollars, much of which is subject to state taxes that get distributed from the tip of Long Island to Fredonia and all parts in between. The idea that the rest of the state is somehow propping up New York City sounds like a moronic sour grapes notion that was dreamed up over a few too many boiler-makers at some gin mill in Depew. Buffalo, and all the other little hamlets throughout New York State get many financial benefits from NYC. It's not the drag on your wallet you think it is. Put that myth to rest. Just walk around downtown and you'll see lots of projects paid for with state money. We get more than people realize. PTR
Just Jack Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 BTW, Jack...You may have to move the 49ers to the out-of-town list if they build their new stadium in Santa Clara. PTR I know, but I kept it to current stadiums, not dreams of a debt ridden state stadiums.
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 That's been the idiot mantra of whiny WNYer's for years. It's a load of crap. Ever been to NYC? Just the Fortune 500 companies alone based there along with the massive tourism dollars generate mega millions of dollars, much of which is subject to state taxes that get distributed from the tip of Long Island to Fredonia and all parts in between. The idea that the rest of the state is somehow propping up New York City sounds like a moronic sour grapes notion that was dreamed up over a few too many boiler-makers at some gin mill in Depew. Buffalo, and all the other little hamlets throughout New York State get many financial benefits from NYC. It's not the drag on your wallet you think it is. Put that myth to rest. This.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 I was in downtown Buffalo about 2 weeks ago. I could have set up 10 pins in front of Holy **** Buffalo's Cold Arena and launched a bowling ball in a southward direction from the intersection of Washington and Virginia and gotten a strike.
tomc702 Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 c'mon, seriously, isn't the wizard of oz theme park building the next stadium????
DUTE Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Actually if you look at a satellite view of NF you'd see a lot of empty land. There are blocks of land east of the casino and waterpark There's a block and a half north of the casino and east of the Days Inn closer to the falls. Besides, if you had to tear down most of downtown, what's the loss? Last I saw it was all boarded up. NF, ON has plenty of clubs, casinos, the ballet...stuff an NFL free agent who's worried about partying would be attracted to. No question the US side would need help. That's why I propose, along with a stadium, they also build an entertainment complex ala Patriot* Place. In fact you already have an empty Rainbow Mall that could be converted to that use. Would that make the US side as good as the Canadian side, maybe not. But it would create the kind of attractions you would need for major stadium events. So even if NF, NY is only busy when the Bills play, or when another big event is hosted, at least you have that. PTR K well d-town is where all the potheads and poor people live so you would be putting about a quarter of the population out of a place to live which is a pretty big loss id say ... Also the land around the falls is a power plant that uses the flow of water from the falls to make energy so we kinda need to keep that. And all that empty land east of the casino is the Niagara Parks which is very important for Niagara Falls because it is a big tourist attraction and a lot of people work there (myself included). All of what you say could be done and makes sense, but it would put thousands of people out of work and a home. Id rather it on the American side, because that side of the river has failed miserably at building a tourist industry though its not really there fault its just that Canada has a better view of the Falls. I say demolish all that crap! (its pretty old and i dont think that many people live in that area or work there). If this were to happen though, theyd better make sure all the NF NY restaurants in that area are left alone because some of the best food i have ever had is in that area !
May Day 10 Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 I love Jim Kelly, but this is perhaps the most assinine thing I have heard in some time. Last I checked, they were called the BUFFALO Bills. Not the Orchard Park Bills. Not the Niagara Falls Bills. The BUFFALO Bills. We have a horrible brown field on the waterfront, just south of the City that would THE perfect site to build a new stadium. Knock down that old plant, build a state-of-the-art stadium and plentiful parking, and Buffalo would benefit because of it. People will want to eat before and after the game, and restaurants will flourish, shops will open in the downtown area, and money will stay in Buffalo. Let Niagara Falls get all of the Casinos they want. I say allow it to become the Las Vegas of NY. You are guaranteed people from all over the world every year just to see the Falls. The problem is, that once they get to the Falls, there is little to nothing to KEEP them on the American side. Casinos would do that. The only stipulations I would have is that the casinos have to give back to the City of Niagara Falls (help pay costs of increased police force, rescue workers, and community improvement/ development), and cannot monopolize the area as outside restaurants, shops, etc would be part of the development program. As long as they could comply with those 2 requests, I say build as many high-end casinos as you can! But the Bills belong in Buffalo; and not anywhere else. yes
Pat7s Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 I hear you on the dirty union city thing. I don't agree with a dome, though. HSBC arena is all the dome needed for concerts. You're missing the point though about having stadium downtown... and I'm not atepmting to jump down your throat here just to be clear. If the tax payers are going to shell out the money for this then it better bring the money back 10 fold, or else it just sits there half hear collecting dust. The city needs more options downtown during the winter time. Its not just concerts, it's everything. Winter fests, car shows, exhibits, it doesn't matter... think bigger, think beyond the obvious. This city is stuck because no one thinks outside the box. Sorry that's not at you really but at the whole place in general. It doesn't matter what people on this board wants, it matters what the average fan wants... that's how you make money.
jethro_tull Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Ask the Patriot's fans if they give a rat's hide about their NFL team having a regional location and name. The Niagara Falls move makes sense on many levels including enhancing the regional efforts. There is a spot west of the Lewiston hydro reservoir that would be perfect- at an intersection of three highways- one leading to Buffalo, one leading to Ontario and one leading to Rochester. The Niagara Buffalo Bills, not bad.
DanInUticaTampa Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 and there is no problem going to our Canadian brothers' house. try tellin that to the fellons.
MaineMoxie Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Jeez, some of you guys act like Niagara Falls is in another hemisphere. I grew up in East Aurora and when I was in high school I dated a girl from Niagara Falls. Technically, there is one town - a single town - between the Buffalo city limits and the Niagara Falls city limits: Grand Island. I'd love to see a downtown stadium but I'd also love to see Buffalo politicians grow up. The reason Kelly is pushing for a NF stadium is because it makes it a shorter drive from both Rochester and Toronto. Frankly, it makes sense from an economic standpoint.
Bufcomments Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 They have to get a new stadium if they hope to compete. If they had to move to NF AND they get a DOME/ air stadium I am down with that. The new owners after Ralph passes on the the big football club in the sky with most likely move from Rich stadium. If somehow Jim Kelly can pull this off I would kiss his hand lol. But sooner or later they need a new stadium. Plus it would give Niagara Falls a boast it needs and it would be great for the whole region if they can increase tourist action.
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