ICE Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Send Losman to NFL Europe. BRILLIANT ! 140770[/snapback] Comical isn't it? Yeah lets send our first round pick QB to NFLE and get him possibly hurt. good call.
Oneida Lake Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Comical isn't it? Yeah lets send our first round pick QB to NFLE and get him possibly hurt. good call. 140782[/snapback] Belichick sent Rohan Davey to Europe and he starred there. Belichick claims Davey advanced "light years" in his development. But what would an idiot like Belichick know? The risk injury idea is ridiculous. It's a contact sport guys. ICE, you're the one who's been claiming that you don't get any better on the bench.
Rico Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Belichick sent Rohan Davey to Europe and he starred there. Belichick claims Davey advanced "light years" in his development. But what would an idiot like Belichick know?140842[/snapback] Unfortunately Tom Brady isn't our current starting QB. Our chances of winning a Super Bowl are riding on how rapidly JP develops as a real NFL QB. Let's send Drew to Europe instead.
Mickey Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Well said, Bill. Many here have referenced past instances of QB development , going back several years. There was no SALARY CAP back then. It dictates many a roster decision these days. Bledsoe carries a big salary and I can't see Losman riding the bench, once the Bills are eliminated from the playoff picture. TD and Co. invested a 1st round pick in this guy. In the salary cap age, that means your day is coming very soon. Mark, isn't it amazing how some want to ignore the fact that the salary cap comes into play. also, if you want to sit a guy 2 years then you send him to NFLE now. But you can't do that with a guy you invested a 1st round pick in. SanDiego says they will franchise Brees. Well that is because they are going to make the playoffs this year AND have 20 mill in cap space next year. 20million! They can take a 9 mill cap hit to franchise brees. But Brees and his agent (whom is Rivers as well I believe) knows the benifit of this. He essentially gets a 9 mill bonus this next season AND will get a bigger one in 06 when they can't afford to trade him. Note: Brees is now a 3rd year starter as well. Some now say they jumped the gun drafting Rivers at all. Unlike the Bills who have a QB that has done the same thing on two different teams over many years. Wyche did not come out of retirement to put humpty dumpty back together again. He came back to ready a prize pupil, something he is good at. The Losman era is coming soon, like it or not. Some posters can call him another Todd Collins or Billy Joe all they want. Means nothing to me. I know what we have in Bledsoe and that means a commitment to mediocrity, something the Pats weren't satisfied with and neither are sober Bills fans. Again dead on Mark. They didn't bring Sam Wyche in to tutor you know who. We all sat here and knew it was for a Rooke QB coming in. Once wyche was on board we knew one was getting picked in the 2nd round or so. Sam Wyche has said JP is as talented as any of the QB's coming out (Yes folks that means rothleswhatever) And at the one on one session was BETTER than Manning. Lastly I am glad you hit the fact that NE didn't want him. They knew what they had. And they knew what they had wasn't going to help NE Achieve their goals. 140664[/snapback] NE was choosing between Bledsoe and a QB that had just led them to a championship. Pretty easy choice. We aren't choosing between Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady on the heels of a championship. We are choosing between Drew Bledsoe and JP Losman. As far as I know, JP hasn't recently led an NFL team to a championship so I don't think the choice is at all comparable.
Oneida Lake Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Unfortunately Tom Brady isn't our current starting QB. Our chances of winning a Super Bowl are riding on how rapidly JP develops as a real NFL QB. Let's send Drew to Europe instead. 140855[/snapback] It makes absolutely no difference who the starting QB is if you're trying to season the new guy. A 48.7 QB rating in two NFL appearances suggests seasoning might be in order. I don't see how he gets better playing Madden in the off season.
nick in* england Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Van Pelt He thinks Drew has enough to be the starter in 2005... Is this their friendship talking?? Or is the Doughboy well enough connected to see the future??
Oneida Lake Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Van Pelt He thinks Drew has enough to be the starter in 2005... Is this their friendship talking?? Or is the Doughboy well enough connected to see the future?? 140951[/snapback] He's 32, not 40, I think he certainly is fit enough, and determined enough to be a starter here, or somewhere in 2005 and for a couple years beyond. The interesting thing about Van Pelt making these comments is that he's a cheerleader for the team obviously, but he's also an unofficial spokesman for ownership, and may be foreshadowing a view from the top for next year.
1billsfan Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 He's 32, not 40, I think he certainly is fit enough, and determined enough to be a starter here, or somewhere in 2005 and for a couple years beyond. The interesting thing about Van Pelt making these comments is that he's a cheerleader for the team obviously, but he's also an unofficial spokesman for ownership, and may be foreshadowing a view from the top for next year. 141043[/snapback] Hearing Bill's fans wanting JP to start next season when the Bills are on a huge roll is so funny to me. I think this team has the makings for a Rams type "greatest show" offense, but that's only with Bledsoe at the helm. And if the Bills continue to put up 30+ point totals the rest of the year it would be foolish to want JP to begin the 2005 season. Because unless he's the second coming of Dan Marino, JP will no doubt play badly more often than not. JP's going to have to show some serious stuff in training camp to unseat a dailed in Drew Bledsoe. I have a final question for you JP guys...are you secretly hoping that the Bills lose so Losman will play?
AKC Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 sober Bills fans. 140611[/snapback] I'm convinced those of you fanning the rumor of a Bill's move to Salt Lake City will end up disappointed.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 Well said, Bill. Many here have referenced past instances of QB development , going back several years. There was no SALARY CAP back then. It dictates many a roster decision these days. Bledsoe carries a big salary and I can't see Losman riding the bench, once the Bills are eliminated from the playoff picture. TD and Co. invested a 1st round pick in this guy. In the salary cap age, that means your day is coming very soon. Mark, isn't it amazing how some want to ignore the fact that the salary cap comes into play. also, if you want to sit a guy 2 years then you send him to NFLE now. But you can't do that with a guy you invested a 1st round pick in. SanDiego says they will franchise Brees. Well that is because they are going to make the playoffs this year AND have 20 mill in cap space next year. 20million! They can take a 9 mill cap hit to franchise brees. But Brees and his agent (whom is Rivers as well I believe) knows the benifit of this. He essentially gets a 9 mill bonus this next season AND will get a bigger one in 06 when they can't afford to trade him. Note: Brees is now a 3rd year starter as well. Some now say they jumped the gun drafting Rivers at all. Unlike the Bills who have a QB that has done the same thing on two different teams over many years. Wyche did not come out of retirement to put humpty dumpty back together again. He came back to ready a prize pupil, something he is good at. The Losman era is coming soon, like it or not. Some posters can call him another Todd Collins or Billy Joe all they want. Means nothing to me. I know what we have in Bledsoe and that means a commitment to mediocrity, something the Pats weren't satisfied with and neither are sober Bills fans. Again dead on Mark. They didn't bring Sam Wyche in to tutor you know who. We all sat here and knew it was for a Rooke QB coming in. Once wyche was on board we knew one was getting picked in the 2nd round or so. Sam Wyche has said JP is as talented as any of the QB's coming out (Yes folks that means rothleswhatever) And at the one on one session was BETTER than Manning. Lastly I am glad you hit the fact that NE didn't want him. They knew what they had. And they knew what they had wasn't going to help NE Achieve their goals. 140664[/snapback] You are correct to praise Bill for correctly and fully siting the cap/Wyche issues which will make the Bills tend toward starting JP rather than simply reciting some false dictum that a 1st round drafted QB must start his first year. However, the cap issues (and the development issues) cut both ways and because TD re-signed Bledsoe to a deal I disagreed with it also creates some tendency to want to keep him and start him in 2005. Fortunately, reality should determine what will happen. If JP is ready to start he will start as soon as our QB of the future is ready to do so. If JP is not ready to start (any by this I mean that his demonstrated to Wyche primarily understanding and control of the game would result in hindering his development and that of the rest of the team) then he will sit. It strikes me that TD set up the Bledsoe deal with the plan and hope that he would lead this team to a better performance (and it is to be hoped back then the playoffs) in 2004 and that JP would develop quickly so that at the very least he wuld pressing Bledsoe to start in 2005 even with Bledsoe doing well. Instead, JP proving it on the practice field and in brief in game showings has been delayed by his injury (though ironically if JP played it right the injury will increase the speed of his development because it gave him a unique chance to focus on Wyche and the game). If the Bills finish 8-8 (likely) or better. there will be a balancing cap pressure to dance with the one who brung you (Bledsoe) if folks judge him as providing a better shot to win the next game than giving JP a development opportunity for the future. The thing I object to in your conclusions is the continual treatment of the outcome as a stone-cold lock which must happen. If Bledsoe and the Bills win he starts regardless of JPs development progress or needs. If Bledsoe and the Bills lose then JP will be rushed along unfortunately regardless of his development progress or needs. Reality has provided us with a fine balance right now in that Bledsoe and the Bills are winning. JP has been hot and cold at best in his development. I think that if the Bills implode over the next 5 games (regardless of whether its Bledsoe's fault or not), then JP is the starter (regardless of his development needs and status). If the Bills do moderately well (miss the playoffs but finish around 9-7) I think Bkledsoe starts but JP will have a definite shot and reps in pre-season next year to take the starters job. I think if the Bills run the table this year (making the playoffs or not) then Bledsoe starts in 2005 and though JP is the QB of the future the future is not now. Reality matters.
CajunBillsBacker Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 I'm afraid that if we finish 10-6, then Donohoe and Co. will think we are not far off. It would be total stojan if they go into the offseason thinking that we are close because they won't want to make the nessessary moves. I personally would have rathered JP play the rest of this season and let him enter next season as the starter, but i'm not opposed to going into next season with Drew as the starter if they... A- Point out that they are indeed not afraid to pull the trigger on Drew when the first sign of trouble comes. B- Make the critical moves this offseason to the Oline, and complete roster depth to keep the game situation out of Drew's hands as much as possible.
Bill from NYC Posted December 1, 2004 Posted December 1, 2004 You are correct to praise Bill for correctly and fully siting the cap/Wyche issueswhich will make the Bills tend toward starting JP rather than simply reciting some false dictum that a 1st round drafted QB must start his first year. However, the cap issues (and the development issues) cut both ways and because TD re-signed Bledsoe to a deal I disagreed with it also creates some tendency to want to keep him and start him in 2005. Fortunately, reality should determine what will happen. If JP is ready to start he will start as soon as our QB of the future is ready to do so. If JP is not ready to start (any by this I mean that his demonstrated to Wyche primarily understanding and control of the game would result in hindering his development and that of the rest of the team) then he will sit. It strikes me that TD set up the Bledsoe deal with the plan and hope that he would lead this team to a better performance (and it is to be hoped back then the playoffs) in 2004 and that JP would develop quickly so that at the very least he wuld pressing Bledsoe to start in 2005 even with Bledsoe doing well. Instead, JP proving it on the practice field and in brief in game showings has been delayed by his injury (though ironically if JP played it right the injury will increase the speed of his development because it gave him a unique chance to focus on Wyche and the game). If the Bills finish 8-8 (likely) or better. there will be a balancing cap pressure to dance with the one who brung you (Bledsoe) if folks judge him as providing a better shot to win the next game than giving JP a development opportunity for the future. The thing I object to in your conclusions is the continual treatment of the outcome as a stone-cold lock which must happen. If Bledsoe and the Bills win he starts regardless of JPs development progress or needs. If Bledsoe and the Bills lose then JP will be rushed along unfortunately regardless of his development progress or needs. Reality has provided us with a fine balance right now in that Bledsoe and the Bills are winning. JP has been hot and cold at best in his development. I think that if the Bills implode over the next 5 games (regardless of whether its Bledsoe's fault or not), then JP is the starter (regardless of his development needs and status). If the Bills do moderately well (miss the playoffs but finish around 9-7) I think Bkledsoe starts but JP will have a definite shot and reps in pre-season next year to take the starters job. I think if the Bills run the table this year (making the playoffs or not) then Bledsoe starts in 2005 and though JP is the QB of the future the future is not now. Reality matters. 141301[/snapback] But FFS, Mark and ICE, I was focusing more on the issue of injuries than the salary cap. I do NOT discard the cap mind you, but I am of the strong opinion that injuries will be the deciding factor of who starts in 05. Again, if Willis gets hurt, I think that stats will deem Drew to be all but worthless if he has to rely on Travis Henry. (Lori, are you there to help me out?) That said, what about an injury to either QB?!?! Again, we can fret about this, but imo, the story will play itself out and injuries will, in all probability, will be the deciding factor.
Guest Guest Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 My question is what do you think the Bills will do next season at quarterback? I don't want your opinion on what they should do, I want your opinion on what they will do. I think it's much more cut and dry then many would like to think. The fact is we are 5-2 in the last 7 games and we finish off with the NFL's second easiest schedule. If we go 9-7 or 10-6 to close out the year I don't think their is any question Drew will start again next year. If either one of those records end up being our final record that would mean the Bills went 9-3, or 10-2 in their final 12 games. That is some serious momentum going into next year, and if you think their is no chance the coaching staff would stick with Bledsoe after that run then your probably setting yourself up for disappointment. I know many of you want Drew out of here no matter what the cost. Maybe it's because you don't think he is capable of taking us to the next level. Maybe it's because he tends to throw rookie type picks, or crap himself in prime time. Even the Bledsoe apologists can recognize his poor decisions at times. But what matters much more to a NFL coach then QB rating is cohesiveness, unity, and improvement. If we finish the year with those three areas showing major progress Mularkey will not make a switch at the QB position. While I'm sick of Drew a lot of the time I care more about winning then anything else. I'm also pretty sure that winning is priority #1 on Mularkeys list. Bottom line is if we finish the year on a roll like that I certainly won't be shocked if they stick with Drew next season. 140543[/snapback] Drew is done. Period. Ever hear the saying about the bulb burning brightest just before it burns out? DB is tied for 2nd in the league in INTS, and has a 72.8 QB rating. 32nd in the league. Let him ride of into the sunset already.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Bill, I think you are right that injuries often decide the season and what will happen (for example, the injury to Pennington seemed to wipe out the Jets whole season last year and all the prognosticating was even more worthless than the usual zero it adds up to). This facor shouldn't make the NFL watcher and certainly not the NFL paid professional throw up their hands and say what's the use. Winning and doing well is so often determined by a decision on what your plan B is. Plan B made all the difference in the world for the Pats as Bledsoe went down and darned if Brady didn't step up and play and luck his way into performing better than anyone thought he would of (first, Brady is extremely extremely good, but no one can deny that the Pats winning the SB lays a lot on the refs call on the fumble/incompletion that easily could have and many argue should have gone the other way, further the most partisan of Pat fans may claim that Belichick had it planned to happen the way it did all along..yeah right). I think the Bills had two crucial failings this year, 1. They re-signed Bledsoe as their starting QB when in my view he is at the end of his career and cannot win without a Parcellian or Belichickian HC effort and the rookie Mularkey was not going to do that, and 2. Travis Brown was never a reasonable plan B even before he was hurt and neither was the rookie Losman so we were left with Bledsoe as are only option when there was nothing he was going to do to lead us past an O-4 start or to win crucial divisional road games against the Jets and Pats. As far as the specifics of your question as to whether we will see Dre start in 05. I think you are right because the schedule against teams with a losing record should allow us to finish at least 8-8 probably 9-7 and potentially 10-6 andthat should be good enough to win Bledsoe the start. I think JPs play in mop-up action or if his practice performance and the Bills getting eliminated early conspire to get him a start (a lot of IFs) and he does well then he will likely go into pre-season camp with a pretty good shot at taking the starting job for the first game of 2005 (even another IF so those who see him being our starter in 2005 from the start I would not hold my breath if I were you as I think you will get very blue). In the end, I think the determining factor for MM and the gang will be who do they think will help them win right now. Even if you feel certain that JP playing now will make him better quicker in the future, MM's pride and job rest on him winning now and not winning later and he will do what he has tio do to give him the best chance to wir right now rather than developing a player to win 6 months from now.
Guest Guest Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 NE was choosing between Bledsoe and a QB that had just led them to a championship. Pretty easy choice. We aren't choosing between Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady on the heels of a championship. We are choosing between Drew Bledsoe and JP Losman. As far as I know, JP hasn't recently led an NFL team to a championship so I don't think the choice is at all comparable. 140866[/snapback] Neither has Bledsoe. He is leading to a very nice 8-8 season.
John from Riverside Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I think the real question is if Drew Bledsoe has trade value..... If we can find a way to finagle a 1st round pick for Bledsoe and Henry then lets do it......
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I think the real question is if Drew Bledsoe has trade value..... If we can find a way to finagle a 1st round pick for Bledsoe and Henry then lets do it...... 142029[/snapback] I don't think Mike Lynn is still in the NFL. He's probably the only one dumb enough in league history...
Pete Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 I don't think Mike Lynn is still in the NFL. He's probably the only one dumb enough in league history... 142030[/snapback] Wheres Bobby Beathard when you need him?
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 Wheres Bobby Beathard when you need him? 142035[/snapback] Probably surfing with Todd Marinovich.
drnykterstein Posted December 2, 2004 Posted December 2, 2004 SD is talking about keeping Brees and Trading Rivers. That is a huge cap hit. But how long can Losman sit on our bench and still be "The future of our franchise" What if Drew starts next year, and we do make the playoffs, but not win the SB. Does drew start in 2006? My only real thought is this: You can't have to much depth at QB, I wouldnt mind one bit if we kept them both onboard for the next three years.
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