Felser: Armchair Bills analysts overdose on despair

[PromoTheRobot]

Incorrect, as usual. When the Bills were good, optimism and confidence reigned on this board. Because they were good. Get it? When you are good, your fans appreciate and celebrate it. Yes, there will always be some who are negative in the face of prosperity but they are very small in number. It's not immaterial that the team hasn't made the playoffs in a decade, it's proof that they have been bad and a reasonable indicator of what is to come. And no, people in Detroit don't dream of the day they can go 7-9 but if it makes you feel better about 9 losing seasons in 10 years then knock yourself out.

When was that era??? The internet wasn't invented yet during the SB run. And all I remember from the Wade Phillips/RJ vs Flutie era was the endless sniping about who should start at QB. Sorry. That era of "kumbaya" never existed here. And FYI, people still bitched from 88 to 94.

 

PTR

[BADOLBILZ]

look people will say and think nice things about the Bills when they make the playoffs or at least aren't painful to watch- I've given the Bills a much longer leeway than I've given politicians and political parties but come on the longest non playoff streak in the NFL who the heck wants to reward that with faith- I doubt the majority of the people on this board would be that generous to their children.

 

What I've never understood is why it's such a personal affront to some people when it's pointed out that the team is bad. It's a product. It's entertainment. Despite that fact that the product has been bad for a very long time, we keep buying it. I don't know what more is owed.

[Meathead]

ive always loved larry old crochety felser. and hes always been old and crochety

[BADOLBILZ]

When was that era??? The internet wasn't invented yet during the SB run. And all I remember from the Wade Phillips/RJ vs Flutie era was the endless sniping about who should start at QB. Sorry. That era of "kumbaya" never existed here. And FYI, people still bitched from 88 to 94.

 

PTR

 

The Bills were good during the days of Hyperbills D&C and the early TSW. There was a lot of optimism and excitement. The Flutie/Johnson debate was it's own entity. There were topics of discussion like did the Bills have the most talented roster in the league? Were they the best defense? There was a lot of love for Butler and co and their successes on draft day. Fans believed that the organization was stable and relatively well run and would continue to be good. Did people still complain? There are ALWAYS some EVERYWHERE that will see the glass half empty regardless but they were very much in the minority. The majority of Bills fans are like me however. We take it for what it is. Most don't come to message boards like this, it attracts those with extreme viewpoints like yours. Everything is black or white with you which is one of the reasons I find you such a distasteful and strange person.

[Buftex]

When was that era??? The internet wasn't invented yet during the SB run. And all I remember from the Wade Phillips/RJ vs Flutie era was the endless sniping about who should start at QB. Sorry. That era of "kumbaya" never existed here. And FYI, people still bitched from 88 to 94.

 

PTR

 

 

Promo, c'mon, you have been around here long enough to know, the "negativity" has been worse in the last two years, than ever before. Of course there are always going to be complaints, that is part of the fun of following sports...but the perceived "hopelessness" of the Bills situation seemed to have really spilled out since Jauron was retained after the 2008 season. My faith wained a bit when Marv became the GM, but, because I appreciate everything the man had done in the past, I didn't get too worked up about it. But retaining Jauron after 2008 made it crystal clear that the Bills were not in good hands, to many. I think they received, by and large, the benefit of a doubt from most, before that.

[Lori]

Promo, c'mon, you have been around here long enough to know, the "negativity" has been worse in the last two years, than ever before. Of course there are always going to be complaints, that is part of the fun of following sports...but the perceived "hopelessness" of the Bills situation seemed to have really spilled out since Jauron was retained after the 2008 season. My faith wained a bit when Marv became the GM, but, because I appreciate everything the man had done in the past, I didn't get too worked up about it. But retaining Jauron after 2008 made it crystal clear that the Bills were not in good hands, to many. I think they received, by and large, the benefit of a doubt from most, before that.

No coincidence that "the last two years" also includes the Toronto venture. People were tired of watching mediocre-to-bad football, but worried that if they stopped supporting the team, the Mayflower moving vans would show up the next night. Easy to get frustrated, feel taken advantage of, with that combo.

[Buftex]

No coincidence that "the last two years" also includes the Toronto venture. People were tired of watching mediocre-to-bad football, but worried that if they stopped supporting the team, the Mayflower moving vans would show up the next night. Easy to get frustrated, feel taken advantage of, with that combo.

 

 

Of course, you are absolutely right. But, there is still that die-hard Bills fan in me, that can't even think about that whole thing, and all of the possible implications it might have.

[BillsVet]

No coincidence that "the last two years" also includes the Toronto venture. People were tired of watching mediocre-to-bad football, but worried that if they stopped supporting the team, the Mayflower moving vans would show up the next night. Easy to get frustrated, feel taken advantage of, with that combo.

 

Thing is, no die-hard fan-base in the NFL has experienced what Bills fans have had to. Bad team, Toronto series, an elderly owner who cannot assure us the team remains, some extremely painful losses (Dallas MNF, CLE MNF, NE MNF) mystifying draft picks, bad FA signings, Dick Jauron, no real GM, et al. The list really does go on and on.

 

It would be one thing if this were Jacksonville where people are apathetic or have other outlets like CFB to follow. Not so in these parts come September. Other teams' futures are in doubt, but none of them have a fan-base that supports them like Buffalo and the surrounding area does the Bills.

[C.Biscuit97]

Thing is, no die-hard fan-base in the NFL has experienced what Bills fans have had to. Bad team, Toronto series, an elderly owner who cannot assure us the team remains, some extremely painful losses (Dallas MNF, CLE MNF, NE MNF) mystifying draft picks, bad FA signings, Dick Jauron, no real GM, et al. The list really does go on and on.

 

It would be one thing if this were Jacksonville where people are apathetic or have other outlets like CFB to follow. Not so in these parts come September. Other teams' futures are in doubt, but none of them have a fan-base that supports them like Buffalo and the surrounding area does the Bills.

 

 

The Browns and Lions fans say hi.

[thewildrabbit]

That is not "neglecting" the offensive line, especially when you use the #1 pick you got in that trade for an offensive lineman. That is unwilling to pay 10 mil for a player you didnt think was worth 10 mil. I would have paid him myself, I wouldn't have traded him, but the example is another in an endless series of not paying or signing the right players, and not neglecting the O Line.

Granted the Bills drafted 2 guards out of necessity and replaced the center with another stop gap player, they still ignored the LT position both last year and this year in the draft after trading away the only PB player on the line.

 

To me that is neglecting the LT position... especially considering they went and drafted a project one trick pony DE with that first round pick last season... who may never develop. This year they did it again and went after a NT in the second and didn't draft a tackle until the 5th round.

 

Now, everybody and their brother in this forum seems to think Wood and Levitre are the answers at guard, and because of injuries on the line last season nobody but Hangartner stayed in the same position and played every game.

 

Because of all those injuries and definite lack of any sort of continuity amongst the players last season everyone thinks the guard positions are set for ten years, I don't. Even if the O line stays injury free I have my doubts about any of the players improving to above average status, much less elite status.

Time will tell and we will see.

[Buftex]

The Browns and Lions fans say hi.

 

 

Buckeye and Wolverine fans say "you missed the point"!

[Kelly the Dog]

Granted the Bills drafted 2 guards out of necessity and replaced the center with another stop gap player, they still ignored the LT position both last year and this year in the draft after trading away the only PB player on the line.

 

To me that is neglecting the LT position... especially considering they went and drafted a project one trick pony DE with that first round pick last season... who may never develop. This year they did it again and went after a NT in the second and didn't draft a tackle until the 5th round.

 

Now, everybody and their brother in this forum seems to think Wood and Levitre are the answers at guard, and because of injuries on the line last season nobody but Hangartner stayed in the same position and played every game.

 

Because of all those injuries and definite lack of any sort of continuity amongst the players last season everyone thinks the guard positions are set for ten years, I don't. Even if the O line stays injury free I have my doubts about any of the players improving to above average status, much less elite status.

Time will tell and we will see.

So you're complaining that the Bills neglect the OL because they don't draft OL in the first two rounds (maybin and the NT being your examples) and then the two they did draft in the first two rounds, Wood and Levitre, you don't think are any good, and that qualifies as neglecting the OL, too. And I guess if Ed Wang or Kyle Calloway become solid starters or pro bowlers, the Bills still would have neglected the OL, because they weren't first round picks.

 

Again, they have selected and signed bad players. They gave Dockery and Walker 75 million one year and they both sucked. That isnt neglecting the OL, it's selecting and over-paying the wrong players. Peters became a pain in the ass, and again, if it were up to me, I would have signed him because I think he is worth it. BUT, if Peters were a DT or DE or LB or WR and the exact same thing happened, they would have traded him because they didnt think he was worth the money he was asking. It's a tough call, and there really isnt a right or wrong answer, it's an opinion.

[Green Lightning]

What I've never understood is why it's such a personal affront to some people when it's pointed out that the team is bad. It's a product. It's entertainment. Despite that fact that the product has been bad for a very long time, we keep buying it. I don't know what more is owed.

 

 

It's an affront when the writers and radio losers do no thinking or analysis but simply p*ss and moan and slam anything and everything. So what if the Jets sign a fading LT? Why is that evidence that our FO inherently sucks? Sully, Schopp and the like don't think, they react - and p*ss on anyone who dares think all is not so awful. Effete and negative to enrage the bulls I suppose. I like to engage in honest criticism but they confuse criticism for character assasination. It's like listening to Rush interview Glenn Beck for days at a time. Enough - it cant be all so terrible!

[The Avenger]

I've got a couple of problems with Felser's article.

 

Firstly, he holds the 2008 Miami Dolphins as an example of how quickly things can go from hopeless to division champs. In late 2007 they hired a certain football guru by the name of Bill Parcells and give him all the control he needed to turn the team around. If the Bills ever made a move like that I would optimistic, but their latest "change" in the front office was to hire a guy from within as GM and not go and get a proven guru and let him run the show - huge difference and for me, plenty of reason to be pessimistic that the team won't be much different than the past decade.

 

Secondly, Felser himself admits that when it comes to scouting you either have an eye for talent or you don't. I agree with this, but what has the Buffalo staff shown in its evaluation of college or free agent talent that makes you feel like we are loaded with guys with an eye for talent? Given how poorly we've done in that department over the past decade you'd think a major shakeup would be needed in the scouting department, but we didn't get it. In fact, one of the old talent scounts is now GM. Again, call me a terrible pessimist, but that lack of change doesn't give me much optimism.

 

To be optimistic about the Bills because the Dolphins turned it around quickly and because we have a solid eye for talent seems way too optimistic for me, Larry.....

[C.Biscuit97]

Buckeye and Wolverine fans say "you missed the point"!

 

 

Maybe because I've grown up in Buffalo but I really get no joy out of college sports. Syracuse is about as close as Ann Arbor is to Detroit. And I've rooted for Cuse but it never really meant that much to me. So saying that college football can replace the NFL is wrong. And both of those franchises have been way less successful than us. So save the woe is me crap.

[thewildrabbit]

So you're complaining that the Bills neglect the OL because they don't draft OL in the first two rounds (maybin and the NT being your examples) and then the two they did draft in the first two rounds, Wood and Levitre, you don't think are any good, and that qualifies as neglecting the OL, too. And I guess if Ed Wang or Kyle Calloway become solid starters or pro bowlers, the Bills still would have neglected the OL, because they weren't first round picks.

Again, they have selected and signed bad players. They gave Dockery and Walker 75 million one year and they both sucked. That isnt neglecting the OL, it's selecting and over-paying the wrong players. Peters became a pain in the ass, and again, if it were up to me, I would have signed him because I think he is worth it. BUT, if Peters were a DT or DE or LB or WR and the exact same thing happened, they would have traded him because they didnt think he was worth the money he was asking. It's a tough call, and there really isnt a right or wrong answer, it's an opinion.

Why do you have a problem comprehending the fact that the team traded away the best player on the line, at the most important position on the line and then never even tried to replace him? Instead they try and make do with a scrub they drafted in the 7th round who may take years to develop and in fact may NEVER develop. You yourself stated "" they have selected and signed bad players"" What makes you think things have changed as the very same guy that brought in Walker-Dockery is still in charge of the scouting dept.

 

First of all Kyle Calloway is being moved to guard as was stated by the team, second Wang is a 5th round pick and a developmental player, I'll be surprised if he even makes a start this year or next.

 

"" And I guess if Ed Wang or Kyle Calloway become solid starters or pro bowlers, the Bills still would have neglected the OL, because they weren't first round picks."" Your words, not mine.

 

You seem to have difficulty in understanding just how rare it is to have a pro bowl player at the left tackle position, just because the Bills were able to mold one from a converted tight end doesn't mean that any 5th or 7th round draft pick can instantly become be a substitute. The guy who developed Jason Peters retired years ago, Jim McNally.

 

I didn't say Wood and Levtrie were "no good", again your words not mine.

 

What I said was:

Because of all those injuries and definite lack of any sort of continuity amongst the players last season everyone thinks the guard positions are set for ten years, I don't. Even if the O line stays injury free I have my doubts about any of the players improving to above average status, much less elite status. ""

 

Above average status does not equal 'no good', it simply means I have my doubts about either becoming top players at their positions. Last season they both rated amongst the worst at their positions.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Why do you have a problem comprehending the fact that the team traded away the best player on the line, at the most important position on the line and then never even tried to replace him? Instead they try and make do with a scrub they drafted in the 7th round who may take years to develop and in fact may NEVER develop. You yourself stated "" they have selected and signed bad players"" What makes you think things have changed as the very same guy that brought in Walker-Dockery is still in charge of the scouting dept.

umm, the "guy" that brought in Walker-Dockery was John Guy. Tom Modrak (assuming you mean the guy still in charge of scouting) isn't responsible for veteran trades and FAs.

 

BTW, I agree with you that it's totally aggravating for the past two preseasons not to have a known quantity at LT. Last year we all know what happened and of course this time we hoped that they'd take one of the highly-rated tackles in the draft. I'm still pissed about that, but I can only reason that they didn't have good grades on who was left after the 1st 8 picks and stuck with their board. Maybe they'll still trade for a veteran LT, or more likely their plan is to use their existing players and develop (or draft) their franchise OL bookends in the years ahead.

[birdog1960]

Maybe because I've grown up in Buffalo but I really get no joy out of college sports. Syracuse is about as close as Ann Arbor is to Detroit. And I've rooted for Cuse but it never really meant that much to me. So saying that college football can replace the NFL is wrong. And both of those franchises have been way less successful than us. So save the woe is me crap.

better consult a map. ann arbor and detroit are about 35 miles apart and the cities really almost blend together (much to ann arbor's horror) as you make the drive.

[C.Biscuit97]

better consult a map. ann arbor and detroit are about 35 miles apart and the cities really almost blend together (much to ann arbor's horror) as you make the drive.

 

 

Yeah, I really don't care that much. Rooting for 18 to 22 years who get used by a school to make millions off of them never did much for me. I like watching college football but I'll never have a team. It's actually kinda sad how much peoples lives in some states revolve around college kids.

[PromoTheRobot]

Thing is, no die-hard fan-base in the NFL has experienced what Bills fans have had to. Bad team, Toronto series, an elderly owner who cannot assure us the team remains, some extremely painful losses (Dallas MNF, CLE MNF, NE MNF) mystifying draft picks, bad FA signings, Dick Jauron, no real GM, et al. The list really does go on and on.

 

It would be one thing if this were Jacksonville where people are apathetic or have other outlets like CFB to follow. Not so in these parts come September. Other teams' futures are in doubt, but none of them have a fan-base that supports them like Buffalo and the surrounding area does the Bills.

Surely you jest. When have the Bills gone 0-16? When have Bills fans lost their NFL team? Get some perspective, dude. We've had some bad stuff happen but it can be much much worse.

 

PTR