RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I don't watch TV so I don't know if the networks have been reporting on the trial of the Navy Seals accused of mistreating a terrorist, but the last Court Martial is over. There are several ways to look at this. I believe that this is proof that the the best of the best actually do adhere to the ideals on which our great nation was founded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Change Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I am a huge believer in the Military Justice System as being fair and effective. I was a panel member on two general and two special court martials and know the workings of the system well. While I understand the the accused sailors refused NJP, I still don't think they should've been court martialed for this allegation. I've seen numerous cases where a Marine or Sailor refused NJP and the case was dropped for lack of evidence prior to proceeding to a full court. I feel that this should've been the case here. These men should not have had to go through the process based on the evidence that has been made public, and the results seem to bear out that there was not much more than what has been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I am a huge believer in the Military Justice System as being fair and effective. I was a panel member on two general and two special court martials and know the workings of the system well. While I understand the the accused sailors refused NJP, I still don't think they should've been court martialed for this allegation. I've seen numerous cases where a Marine or Sailor refused NJP and the case was dropped for lack of evidence prior to proceeding to a full court. I feel that this should've been the case here. These men should not have had to go through the process based on the evidence that has been made public, and the results seem to bear out that there was not much more than what has been released. If we don't publically do this to our own, how will we ever get the world to like us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 If we don't publically do this to our own, how will we ever get the world to like us? Could you possibly be a bigger partisan shill? Seriously, you're beyond even Wacka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Could you possibly be a bigger partisan shill? Seriously, you're beyond even Wacka. Sure he could. He could be George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 Sure he could. He could be George. So you're saying I should take him just as seriously as everyone takes George? I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I can live with that. I'm sure you can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 So you're saying I should take him just as seriously as everyone takes George? In all senses, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Could you possibly be a bigger partisan shill? Seriously, you're beyond even Wacka. It has nothing to do with being a partisan shill, though I wouldn't expect you, another partisan shill, to understand that. This president has gone out of his way to let everyone know that the way to get things done on the foreign policy front is to first erase the perceptions of us as a brute nation that only wants to raid Middle East countries for their oil. Do you dispute that? Of course not. It's an undeniable truth. So what better way to show the world that we're NOT that brute nation than to put on a show by attempting to court martial these guys because one of them apparently gave a bloody lip to a guy who was charged with murdering four contracters, decapitating them and having their bodies delivered to the doorsteps of the victims' families. They put on the show. The guys were found not guilty. The administration says "See, we're not above going after our own, too. Sorry about that bloody lip. Here's a band-aid. Please like us." You don't need to be a shill to figure that out. But if it makes you feel better, call me a partisan shill. Means nothing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 I am a huge believer in the Military Justice System as being fair and effective. I was a panel member on two general and two special court martials and know the workings of the system well. While I understand the the accused sailors refused NJP, I still don't think they should've been court martialed for this allegation. I've seen numerous cases where a Marine or Sailor refused NJP and the case was dropped for lack of evidence prior to proceeding to a full court. I feel that this should've been the case here. These men should not have had to go through the process based on the evidence that has been made public, and the results seem to bear out that there was not much more than what has been released. While I completely agree with everything you just said, I was told many years ago; "If the accused is guilty they're better off in a Civilian Court. If the accused is innocent they're better off at a Court Martial." I firmly believe that to be true. "When the three SEALs chose not to have the matter handled administratively, Army Maj. Gen. C.T. Cleveland, head of Special Operations Command Central, decided to proceed to courts-martial." If the Navy had the option to handle this "In House" there most likely wouldn't have been a court martial. Unfortunately, some ground pounder got to make the decision... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 It has nothing to do with being a partisan shill, though I wouldn't expect you, another partisan shill, to understand that. I'm curious. When was it that I shilled for a political party? I will freely admit to being on the "left" when you consider the makeup of this board but I'm nowhere near as far to the left as you are to the right. This president has gone out of his way to let everyone know that the way to get things done on the foreign policy front is to first erase the perceptions of us as a brute nation that only wants to raid Middle East countries for their oil. Do you dispute that? Of course not. It's an undeniable truth. I agree, but I'm confused, how is that a bad thing? So what better way to show the world that we're NOT that brute nation than to put on a show by attempting to court martial these guys because one of them apparently gave a bloody lip to a guy who was charged with murdering four contracters, decapitating them and having their bodies delivered to the doorsteps of the victims' families. The last time I looked we were a nation with laws, which include the UCMJ. How big a dirtbag the accuser was is good for inflaming public opinion but means nothing in the light of the UCMJ. I've already given my feelings about whether or not there should have been a court martial in another post. They put on the show. The guys were found not guilty. The administration says "See, we're not above going after our own, too. Sorry about that bloody lip. Here's a band-aid. Please like us." If you think that was a "show trial" you know absolutely nothing about the military in general and the SEALs in particular. You don't need to be a shill to figure that out. But if it makes you feel better, call me a partisan shill. Means nothing to me. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I'm curious. When was it that I shilled for a political party? I will freely admit to being on the "left" when you consider the makeup of this board but I'm nowhere near as far to the left as you are to the right. I agree, but I'm confused, how is that a bad thing? The last time I looked we were a nation with laws, which include the UCMJ. How big a dirtbag the accuser was is good for inflaming public opinion but means nothing in the light of the UCMJ. I've already given my feelings about whether or not there should have been a court martial in another post. If you think that was a "show trial" you know absolutely nothing about the military in general and the SEALs in particular. LOL! I guess I know nothing about the military in general and the SEALS in particular. I ran into the same problem when I watched "Jarhead." You're not a shill, but a thoughtful, insightful poster who only comes off as a liberal only because there are so many conservatives here. The world loves us more today than yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 I guess I know nothing about the military in general and the SEALS in particular. I ran into the same problem when I watched "Jarhead." You're not a shill, but a thoughtful, insightful poster who only comes off as a liberal only because there are so many conservatives here. The world loves us more today than yesterday. As usual when you're not quoting the talking points from your latest Joe the Plumber e-mail all you can do is spout mindless snark. Tom was right, there is very little difference between you and George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 As usual when you're not quoting the talking points from your latest Joe the Plumber e-mail all you can do is spout mindless snark. Tom was right, there is very little difference between you and George. I'm not sure what you expect from me, Skippy. We disagree. It's funny these days that being a conservative makes one a partisan shill. We clearly have different ideas of what constitutes a shill. You don't see me running around demanding Obama's birth certificate, or yelling that Kagan is a left-wing wacko or that Obama responded too slowly the oil spill. Or that he could care less about the flooding in Tennessee. That's shill stuff to me. Still, I'm not sure why you're so surprised that a conservative would find so much wrong with a lot of the core things the Obama administration is doing. The health care bill? A joke. The stimulus? A joke. Cap-n-trade? A joke. Continuing to fund unemployment benefits with money we don't have? Yep...another joke. Spending reduction commission? Joke. Jobs summit? Joke. Thinking that if the world just likes us a little more, we'll get more cooperation to make the world a more peaceful place? Joke. Consistently telling everyone that the massive debt we have accumulated will be handled by, get this, taxing the rich, as though somehow earning $200K a year is considered "rich?" Joke. You disagree. Probably on all of that. Someone call the Obvious Police. To you, that makes me a shill. Again, big freaking deal. What you or Tom or anyone else thinks of me means nothing. But the Joe the Plumber line was great. Original. Creative. Real independent thinker stuff. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 If we don't publically do this to our own, how will we ever get the world to like us? It has nothing to do with being a partisan shill, though I wouldn't expect you, another partisan shill, to understand that. This president has gone out of his way to let everyone know that the way to get things done on the foreign policy front is to first erase the perceptions of us as a brute nation that only wants to raid Middle East countries for their oil. Do you dispute that? Of course not. It's an undeniable truth. So what better way to show the world that we're NOT that brute nation than to put on a show by attempting to court martial these guys because one of them apparently gave a bloody lip to a guy who was charged with murdering four contracters, decapitating them and having their bodies delivered to the doorsteps of the victims' families. They put on the show. The guys were found not guilty. The administration says "See, we're not above going after our own, too. Sorry about that bloody lip. Here's a band-aid. Please like us." You don't need to be a shill to figure that out. But if it makes you feel better, call me a partisan shill. Means nothing to me. I guess I know nothing about the military in general and the SEALS in particular. I ran into the same problem when I watched "Jarhead." You're not a shill, but a thoughtful, insightful poster who only comes off as a liberal only because there are so many conservatives here. The world loves us more today than yesterday. Nope, none of that is pure snark, it's all thoughtful, well reasoned commentary, revealing your true position on current events, designed to nurture the spirit of reasonable, calm, and factual discussion which pervades PPP. I'm so sorry I misinterpretated your intentions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Tom was right, there is very little difference between you and George. Yeah, that's what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 Yeah, that's what I said. Like you've never misquoted anybody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Like you've never misquoted anybody... Technically you didn't misquote me as much as wilfully misunderstand my point, which was, of course, that you are, in so many different ways, a complete dullard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Consistently telling everyone that the massive debt we have accumulated will be handled by, get this, taxing the rich, as though somehow earning $200K a year is considered "rich?" Joke. I'm picking one point out of a lengthy post, but here's a site I was looking at yesterday: http://globalrichlist.com/ Someone making $200K per year is the 786,570 richest person in the world, a top 0.01% earner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 Technically you didn't misquote me as much as wilfully misunderstand my point, which was, of course, that you are, in so many different ways, a complete dullard. Wow, I never knew there was a Spit & Polish requirement here on PPP... Oh Wait... That's just Tom Speak for I'm so much smarterer than you. Tom, you've really hurt me this time, you've cut me to the bone. In response I may have to follow you around using my new google-bot to point out the enormous volume of inaccurate male bovine animal excrement you spew on a daily, weekly, and/or monthly basis. Or I could just laugh and snicker behind your back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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