Cushing wins re-vote

[oddoublee]

Do performance enhancing drugs and make something of your life. That pretty much is the message they're sending, IMO. This is one of the greatest injustices sports has seen in recent years.

 

the greatest? lol

[Lv-Bills]

Wow! I wonder how the voting journalists would feel if a major journalism award was given to someone who plagerized their articles?

LMAO. Best post of the year.

[oddoublee]

Thanks. It seems strange to me that apparently the all pro team is more prestigious than D ROY. Or maybe I'm just reading to much into it.

 

you are

[Delete This Account]

JW or Lori,

 

If this is an AP award then why don't the AP vote on it? That seems a little odd to me.

this one's a little tough to explain, but let me give it my best shot:

1. we cover the news and don't try to make it (though it can be said we did here).

 

2. as we at the AP have a wide breadth of resources, members, we have the capability of drawing upon them when it comes to issuing these awards or coming up with, say, top 25 polls. by being an unbiased news source with a national reach, the AP has traditionally been entrusted to be above board on this.

 

3. except for our national football writers (it's currently down to Barry Wilner), AP writers such as i have the responsibility of covering many beats, from hockey, basketball, baseball, colleges to the NFL etc. beat writers at other publications such as Mark Gaughan cover the NFL for a majority of the year. there could be a case made that they see more NFL games and follow the league more than many of us AP sports writers do.

 

jw

[Delete This Account]

Oh, holy !@#$ing buffalo ****, this might be the best reply to a mouth-breather I have ever read.

 

jw, that drink you said you owe me? I owe you one back. Next time you're in DC...

wow. i'm honored. (truly am). will definitely take you up on that.

 

jw

[Lori]

JW or Lori,

 

If this is an AP award then why don't the AP vote on it? That seems a little odd to me.

I realize JW has already answered this, but here's how I had it explained to me by a guy from a bigger paper: "When AP began handing out awards (more than a half-century ago, in some cases), there really weren't that many AP employees. The AP was ... and is ... all of us."

 

To prove his point, I believe every AP-affiliated paper which regularly covers a Division 1 basketball program -- yeah, even the little ol' Olean Times Herald, down here on the Bonnies beat -- gets a vote in the weekly Top 25 poll.

[Green Lightning]

I will boycott reading several publications. I plan on writing ESPN about Berman's "yes" vote.

If the AP decides to change its view when it comes to cheating(if your caught cheating no awards) I will change my view of the publication.

 

 

How a about avoiding this board because because you are obviously incapable

of rational thought and you lower the IQ of TSW with each post.

[CosmicBills]

It is really amazing when you compare baseball to football...in baseball, you get suspended for 50 games and you have a scarlet letter...in football, all they do is talk about how this will affect the team. What are they going to do without his production?? Football appears to not give a flying pigskin if it's players are juicing.

 

Football is not baseball and never will be. The big difference is baseball is a game about numbers and statistics almost more than it is about championships. One of the amazing things about baseball (for its fans that is) is that these numbers are sacred. The history of the game is so long and so cherished that the numbers are the only things that allow people to compare one generation of players to the next.

 

Steroids threaten that history. That's why it's a huge deal in baseball.

 

But football has no attachment to numbers and records. All fans really care about, and players for that matter, are the Wins and Losses. How many die-hard football fans know, not only WHO holds the record for the most Rushing yards in a season/career, but how many yards exactly the record is? 75%? 80%? How many die-hard baseball fans know to the decimal point the career batting averages, HRs, RBI, SB, etc etc of the great players? I'd say 99%.

 

It's just a different world. That's why baseball cares so much -- and why their total dropping of the steroid ball in the last two decades (or longer depending on who you talk to) is such an absolute crime.

 

And ... now to my controversial point ...

 

But Football has no ties to its history outside of championships and wins and losses. Sure, it was a big deal when Brady beat Marino's record. But it was way bigger news that the Patriots actually lost that super bowl. By in large, fans don't care about records in the NFL. They care about winning. And, more importantly, they care about the violence that the sport brings to their living rooms every sunday.

 

The violence of the sport adds to it's appeal and to its beauty. People love the big hit. People love the deep pass. The breakaway runs. They don't care what the records are doing. They just care that their team wins. Steroids in the NFL to me do not tarnish the game. I wouldn't care if it came out Kelly was on the juice (okay, that sounded way dirtier than I intended). I wouldn't care if Brady were on it. Why? Because I tend to believe more people in the NFL are on PEDs than aren't. And frankly, I don't care so long as it leads to a better product on the field.

 

And I think honestly, most of you would agree with me. You just won't admit it. Oh I know, I know. I can hear you all now:

 

"Steroids are illegal not only in the sport but under federal law!"

-- Yes, I know steroids are illegal. So is weed. I don't care if a player (or person for that matter) smokes.

 

"Steroids are a health risk! They cause cancer, they kill you!"

-- Yes, steroids are a health risk. But so too is playing in the NFL. Also, I can show you as many studies that show responsible use of the newer drugs aren't nearly as dangerous as the crap we shovel into our mouths every day from take out joints and fast food places.

 

"What about the kids! The kids! Think of the poor kids!"

-- Yes, I know it's a bad message to send our kids. But if you're relying on NFL players to set an example for your kids rather than doing it yourself, there are far bigger worries in your life than whether or not Cushing won the vote.

 

Again, for me the NFL is a dirty league. It always has been and probably always will be. It just doesn't matter so long as the product on the field is good. However in a sport like baseball where it's about history -- that's a different conversation.

 

And finally ... who cares about the damn ROY award? Does anyone even know who won it last year? Or three years ago? It's a meaningless award in the NFL. No one cares. So I don't get all the panic being shown on this crazy board.

[billsrcursed]

don't fret, i was part of the first 7 pages before taking a break, having dinner and catching the Habs beat the Pens (i know 2 Canadiens' fans that are happy, my brother and Ms. Lori ... ). i just decided to check in on what's going on and am absolutely laughing my behind off at what went on.

that was some good stuff.

 

to one point that was raised, and i'm not saying this because i'm a company man: i thoroughly agreed with the decision to allow all eligible candidates to be considered, from Cushing on down to all the undrafted rookies who played in the NFL last season.

it allowed the voters to make their own choices given the information that was available -- and obviously, some of that information had changed when the first vote was made in January. it was a fair and honest vote, and it was left to the people -- highly respected journalists all -- to make their respective choices.

the fact the vote came up the way it did is curious, telling, debatable and open to criticism. so? that's what happens sometimes. sometimes life is a square peg fitting into a round hole.

 

(i know at least one colleague who suggested that the baseball hall of fame vote should be open to all players, including Pete Rose. at least then, the endless debate over Rose could begin moving forward, rather than being stuck in neutral. there's merits to that argument.)

 

what happened here happened. debate it, discuss it, write letters, whatever.

 

guess my point is ... no AP writer was involved in casting a ballot ... oh, did i say that already?

 

thanks to most of you.

 

jw

 

Nice post!

 

I tend to agree on letting the vote take place with ALL original candidates. It keeps the AP out of the spotlight (at least it does in regards to people with a brain) and allows the voters to decide if Cushing should have the award or not.

 

Great point on Rose as well. Let the voters decide if he should be allowed into the HOF.

 

We live in a Democracy, the process is accurate. The beef should be with the writers who voted, not the AP. They did the right thing here.

 

John; You should entertain the idea of the "IGNORE" feature.

 

I'd also like to add that the BAN HAMMER should have been dropped down hard in here for at least 2 posters....but whatever. Hopefully John decides to stick around after these idiots who posted in here. I'm sick of seeing decent people leave because of some noob D-bags who have nothing better to do than to harrass and belittle others. It's getting ridiculous...

[Steely Dan]

How a about avoiding this board because because you are obviously incapable

of rational thought and you lower the IQ of TSW with each post.

 

Ummm, I'm pretty sure he won't be back, not by his choice. You should have read the posts he wrote that got deleted!!

[uforesircher]

(1) I wasn't aware that it was the job of these no-talent hacks to "make statements" and fight cheating in sports. But apparently it is.

 

I'll ask once again, (2) how is the NFL getting a free pass here? Why is it not the NFL's job to fight cheating in their own sport, and actually suspend an offending player within a reasonable amount of time of his offense?

 

What if the Texans made the playoffs, went to the Super Bowl, and Cushing was voted the MVP after a huge performance in leading Houston to victory??? Would that award be revoked? Would the Super Bowl be revoked?

 

The NFL dragged their feet here. The AP even issuing a re-vote was a mistake, nobody really cares about these awards.

 

By the way, Offensive ROY Percy Harvin failed a drug test at the combine. Marijuana. What kind of message is this for the children??? Waaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!! REVOTE!!!

 

(1) three points on that statement: 1. that's all they do is make statements - it is their job - some good and intuitive some not so good - so of course it's their job it since that is what they do; 2. and they made a social statement - and a poor social statement - pathetic; 3. your lack of understanding this is alarming.

 

(2) the nfl does not get a pass - but it is not the nfl's award - however it is clear the nfl did not do the right thing either - there we agree on that point

[uforesircher]

this one's a little tough to explain, but let me give it my best shot:

1. we cover the news and don't try to make it (though it can be said we did here).

 

2. as we at the AP have a wide breadth of resources, members, we have the capability of drawing upon them when it comes to issuing these awards or coming up with, say, top 25 polls. by being an unbiased news source with a national reach, the AP has traditionally been entrusted to be above board on this.

 

3. except for our national football writers (it's currently down to Barry Wilner), AP writers such as i have the responsibility of covering many beats, from hockey, basketball, baseball, colleges to the NFL etc. beat writers at other publications such as Mark Gaughan cover the NFL for a majority of the year. there could be a case made that they see more NFL games and follow the league more than many of us AP sports writers do.

 

jw

 

thanks john for the explanation

 

but it is still the ap's award - so the bottom line is: becasue it is the ap's award that makes it ultimately the ap's responsibility for it - no need for reply because the point is clear enough for everyone

[uforesircher]

yadda . . . yadda . . . yadda . . . etc.

 

And I think honestly, most of you would agree with me. You just won't admit it. Oh I know, I know. I can hear you all now:

 

"Steroids are illegal not only in the sport but under federal law!"

-- (1) Yes, I know steroids are illegal. So is weed. I don't care if a player (or person for that matter) smokes.

 

"Steroids are a health risk! They cause cancer, they kill you!"

-- (2) Yes, steroids are a health risk. But so too is playing in the NFL. Also, I can show you as many studies that show responsible use of the newer drugs aren't nearly as dangerous as the crap we shovel into our mouths every day from take out joints and fast food places.

 

"What about the kids! The kids! Think of the poor kids!"

-- (3) Yes, I know it's a bad message to send our kids. But if you're relying on NFL players to set an example for your kids rather than doing it yourself, there are far bigger worries in your life than whether or not Cushing won the vote.

 

1. that is a pathetic stance - pathetic.

 

2. some studies shows that it takes years and years off of the back end of a lifespan - hmm wonder why is it banned now?

 

3. i really feel sorry for you if you can dismiss this point so easily - but then again with your weed comment it is clear why they call it dope.

[BillsRUs]

jw,

 

Why does the Twitter feed suck on the espn.go.com/boston site? And what do you think of Jerry Sullivan

 

Oh no you didn't!

 

[BillsRUs]

While I understand that the AP did not have anything to do with voting, I do not necessarily agree with Cushing being on the ballot the second time around. There was a reason they polled the writers a second time - the winner failed a drug drug test at the beginning of the season. I can understand the AP wanting to stay neutral but I dont agree with it. My prerogative.

 

I would also love to know why many of the writers voted for Cushing again. I hope their reasoning will come to light soon because I just cannot fathom why. You have a way to tell the world that cheating is dishonorable and the embarrassment and stigma that results from being caught will stay with you for life. It would have been another lesson not just for Cushing but for other young athletes as well.

 

Suffice to say, I am disappointed in the voters. These writers are so quick to play up the news surrounded a cheating player, write about his lack of moral direction but refuse to do anything when given the power to send a message. I doubt it would've made a huge difference in the grand scheme of sport, but like voting every message counts.

 

Just so we're clear, my views bear no reflection on JW.

[mob16151]

you are

 

 

Thank you. This is truly a thought provoking post.

[Jon in Pasadena]

Here's a totally crazed idea.

 

Perhaps the AP or another media organization could come up with a couple of new awards: the NCDROY and NCOROY.

 

(The NC stands for "Non-Cheater", of course.)

 

The organizers could then, in good conscience, restrict the ballot to those rookies who didn't fail PED tests. And the voters could vote with clear consciences for whomever they thought deserved it from amongst the non-cheaters.

 

And then the rest of us could decide for ourselves which set of awards we give less of a **** about.

[VABills]

Would we even be having the idiots in this thread complaining about the revote if it wasn't a Bill who finished second? You homer idiots who can't look at anything objectively need to just STFU.

[papazoid]

KEPT BRIAN CUSHING(notes) (17)

Don Banks, Sports Illustrated.com

Bob Berger, Sporting News Radio

Chris Berman, ESPN

Steve Cohen, Sirius Satellite Radio

Frank Cooney, SportsXChange

Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune

Tom Curran, Comcast Sportsnet

Vinny Ditrani, The Record

Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News

Paul Gutierrez, Sacramento Bee

Clark Judge, CBSSports.com

John McClain, Houston Chronicle

Gary Myers, New York Daily News

Danny O'Neil, Seattle Times

Pete Prisco, CBSSports.com

Adam Teicher, Kansas City Star

Charean Williams Fort Worth Star-Telegram

 

KEPT JAIRUS BYRD(notes) (4)

Brian Allee-Walsh, New Orleans.com

Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News

Ashley Fox, Philadelphia Inquirer

Armando Salguero, Miami Herald

 

KEPT CLAY MATTHEWS(notes) (3)

Jim Corbett, USA Today

Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer

Kent Somers, Arizona Republic

 

CHANGED TO BRIAN CUSHING (1)

Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Jairus Byrd)

 

CHANGED FROM BRIAN CUSHING (19)

Jarrett Bell, USA Today (Jairus Byrd)

Clifton Brown, The Sporting News (Jairus Byrd)

Rich Cimini, New York Daily News (Clay Matthews)

John Clayton, ESPN The Magazine (Clay Matthews)

Bob Costas, HBO/NBC Sports (Clay Matthews)

John Czarnecki, Fox Sports (Brian Orakpo(notes))

Boomer Esiason, CBS/Westwood One (Jairus Byrd)

Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News (Jairus Byrd)

Nancy Gay, AOL Fanhouse (Jairus Byrd)

Bob Glauber, Newsday (Jairus Byrd)

Dave Goldberg, AOL Fanhouse (Clay Matthews)

Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune (Jairus Byrd)

Peter King, Sports Illustrated (Clay Matthews)

Matt Maiocco, Santa Rosa Press Democrat (Clay Matthews)

Alex Marvez, Foxsports.com (Jairus Byrd)

Pat McManamon, Akron Beacon Journal (Jairus Byrd)

Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune (Clay Matthews)

Adam Schein, Sirius NFL Radio (Brian Orakpo)

Frank Schwab, Colorado Springs Gazette (Clay Matthews)

 

ABSTAINED (3)

Howie Long, Fox Sports

Chris Mortensen, ESPN

Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Note: All had Cushing in the original balloting.

 

CHANGED FROM JAIRUS BYRD (2)

Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Brian Cushing)

David Elfin, Washington Times (Brian Orakpo)

 

CHANGED FROM BRIAN ORAKPO (2)

Howard Balzer, Fox Sports Net (James Laurinaitis(notes))

Len Shapiro, Miami Herald (Clay Matthews)

[BillsGuyInMalta]

KEPT BRIAN CUSHING(notes) (17)

Chris Berman, ESPN

Chris Berman...I knew it was you...you broke my heart!