Guys, this starting front-five is a disaster

[Coach Tuesday]

If you think that their goal is to be decent this year and you then look at their moves in the offseason, you'd be led to the unavoidable conclusion that they simply aren't capable, that they have no idea what they're doing.

 

On the other hand, if you figure that their goal is to be good in 2012, and that they don't really care how they do this year - no matter how much they talk about turning it around this year - all of a sudden you think they might be on to something. It all falls into place if you look at it that way.

 

You're right, the line is almost certainly going to suck this year. Don't worry about it.

 

I was busy yesterday and wasn't able to come back and defend myself. Some interesting stuff here.

 

I think you're right that they're thinking longer term. Although I generally like the moves they've made so far, I really question whether any team can afford to go into the season with this line. No NFL-caliber tackles on the roster. Trying to think of a recent precedent and I can't, except perhaps last year's Bills and Art Shell's second stint with the Raiders. Not good.

 

I am intrigued by Mickey's suggestion that they'll run the spread to mask some deficiencies, a la Mike Leach. Perhaps that's right, but I question how effective it will be with such a weak group of WRs.

 

I love how people cite last year's teeam and insist, as a rule, that this team is guaranteed to be better. The logic isn't there. As some have mentioned, Jauron had a knack for keeping things close. He also, for all of his faults, somehow kept his players motivated. We have no idea how Chan will coach this club.

 

Ask yourselves, what happens if Wood isn't ready to start the season? Can any of you even name his replacement? Why wasn't Incognito tendered? Why wasn't Vincent retained? Why was Langston Walker flat out released last year, instead of being retained for depth? You don't think it would've helped to have him when Butler went down? You say this is a new administration. I say this is more of the same: a cheap, meddling owner who wants quick, easy fixes and doesn't want to pay for depth.

 

We've seen this movie before and we know how it ends, folks. Sure, maybe this year they've brought in a better director and some special effects. But it's still shaping up to be a big turkey.

[LGB]

I was busy yesterday and wasn't able to come back and defend myself. Some interesting stuff here.

 

I think you're right that they're thinking longer term. Allthough I generally like the moves they've made so far, I really question whether any team can afford to go into the season with this line. No NFL-caliber tackles on the roster. Trying to think of a recent precedent and I can't, except perhaps last year's Bills and Art Shell's second stint with the Raiders. Not good.

 

I am intrigued by Mickey's suggestion that they'll run the spread to mask some deficiencies, a la Mike Leach. Perhaps that's right, but I question how effective it will be with such a weak group of WRs.

 

I love how people cite last year's teeam and insist, as a rule, that this team is guaranteed to be better. The logic isn't there. As some have mentioned, Jauron had a knack for keeping things close. He also, for all of his faults, somehow kept his players motivated. We have no idea how Chan will coach this club.

 

Ask yourselves, what happens if Wood isn't ready to start the season? Can any of you even name his replacement? Why wasn't Incognito tendered? Why wasn't Vincent retained? Why was Langston Walker flat out released last year, instead of being retained for depth? You don't think it would've helped to have him when Butler went down? You say this is a new administration. I say this is more of the same: a cheap, meddling owner who wants quick, easy fixes and doesn't want to pay for depth.

 

We've seen this movie before and we know how it ends, folks. Sure, maybe this year they've brought in a better director and some special effects. But it's still shaping up to be a big turkey.

Hope springs eternal, right? I am sure that OBD can do the math on what they need to achieve to sell tickets. How many people are going to decide to wait until the Bills improve their OL and mediocre performances to buy tickets? Not many I am guessing. This isn't Jacksonville yet - where they have to cover the empty seats to achieve a sell out. Spiller is the flashy new toy this year just like TO was last year that gained media attention. There is a grace period for when new coaching staffs are hired and historically for the Bills it has been 2-3 years (Gregg Williams 2001–2003, Mike Mularkey 2004–2005, Dick Jauron 2006–2009).

[Webster Guy]

The only position I am terrified of is LT.

 

IIRC, Wood is on pace to be ready by the regular season (if not sooner).

Both Wood and Levitre return to the OG (please, stop with the Levitre to LT nonsense. As Nix said, why weaken 2 positions),

and Hangartner will benefit not having to deal with 2 rookies (not saying Pro Bowl, but he should be better than last year).

If Green can produce on a level like Walker did when he has here, that will be an increase over what we had (combined) last year.

 

It still will not be an elite line, but it should not be the bottom dweller like last year.

Wood is obviously a HUGE part of this year's success or failure. I could be wrong, but isn't the guy just barely starting to exercise his leg after major surgery and being in a wheelchair for the majority of the offseason? I know he's optimistic but that doesn't mean he's going to be able to battle full speed in the trenches 3 months from now.

 

That freakin injury was so bizarre I still can't believe it happened, especially to a young healthy horse like Eric Wood. We need that dude to come back in a big way.

[Cynical]

There was never anything wrong with that quote. He was simply saying that he was a player, and that players can't be fans.

 

Darryl Talley disagrees. As DT said, "I was a player and a fan."

 

It was anyone that took DID NOT TAKE offense who should look at himself.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Choose who you want, but you have 2 choices:

 

Darryl Talley, former Pro Bowl LB that was a leader on the team who used to run along the sideline before the game started and challenged each and every Bills player to make an impact play;

 

OR

 

Trent Edwards, paycheck collector.

 

 

And one more thing, Terrell Owens was asked the very same question after the very same game.

How did Owens get "it", yet Edwards did not?

[Cynical]

Wood is obviously a HUGE part of this year's success or failure. I could be wrong, but isn't the guy just barely starting to exercise his leg after major surgery and being in a wheelchair for the majority of the offseason?

 

Wood is stating his target is to be ready by the start of TC in July.

 

I know he's optimistic but that doesn't mean he's going to be able to battle full speed in the trenches 3 months from now.

 

True.

I just hope his optimism and his youth serves him well, and he can come back before camp starts.

Heck, I'll be happy if he can be ready by the start of the regular season.

[BillsVet]

On the other hand, if you figure that their goal is to be good in 2012, and that they don't really care how they do this year - no matter how much they talk about turning it around this year - all of a sudden you think they might be on to something. It all falls into place if you look at it that way.

 

You're right, the line is almost certainly going to suck this year. Don't worry about it.

 

It all falls into place if the owner keeps living, which I hope to goodness gracious he does. But rebuilding this particular franchise given the circumstances (the stadium lease expires after the 2012 season, future ownership) is strange. After all, they could be getting good if all goes to plan just as the lease runs out.

 

It's not Nix or Gailey's fault the team was bad to mediocre from 2000-2009. There are some holdovers up there at OBD who will never be fired and are responsible, but they'll never be held accountable because they make the team money.

 

When I look around the NFL, there are teams that produce more, yet Buffalo fans in many pockets simply hope to have a team, results be darned. That mindset continues to amaze me.

[MRW]

When I look around the NFL, there are teams that produce more, yet Buffalo fans in many pockets simply hope to have a team, results be darned. That mindset continues to amaze me.

I'm a fan of the Bills because I grew up in WNY and they're a connection to my youth, it's as simple as that. I don't think I need to apologize for hoping for the best for the team year after year. They're a bad team, but they're my team.

[Cynical]

Seriously, you need to get over your hate for the guy.

 

The point I was making is that after 5-6 concussions a players career is usually over, even the great ones. Edwards has had 2 in 2 years...

 

So? If Edwards feels that concussions are going to continue to be a problem for him, then he really needs to face that issue and weigh out the pros and cons of continuing to play football.

 

And that goes for any player on any team. Only they can decide when enough is enough, and the risks outweigh the rewards.

 

Brian Westbrook should have sat out the year instead of going back in too soon and suffering another concussion, he didn't and then the team cut him because now he is more susceptible to getting another concussion.

 

Again. I feel for the guy. Still does not change anything.

 

Let me ask a question, what would you have done in his place?

 

Play to the best of my ability, because that is what I was getting paid to do.

I understand that there are risks, but I am willing to accept those risks in order to play.

 

Would you risk your entire NFL career after you see the HC fire the OC and cut the starting tackle two weeks before the opener and then watch the O line completely break down and leave you running for your life every play, the offense was in shambles.

 

Granted he was foolish to even open his mouth and say anything to alienate the fans.

 

In hindsight, it was a softball question. No calling anybody out, no throwing anybody under a bus. A pretty simple question.

Terrell Owens was asked the same question after the same game.

Owens got it.

 

Me? I would have shut my mouth and done my best to back up the other QB's and happily sat out the year and fully recover.

 

The question to Edwards was irrelevant. He only confirmed what many people had already speculated based on what they saw out of his play and out of the play of Fitzpatrick.

Watching Fiztpatrick and Edwards play was like watching night and day pass by.

 

At least Fitzpatrick was trying to win.

If Edwards play proved anything, when the going gets tough, he's just there to collect a paycheck.

[BillsVet]

I'm a fan of the Bills because I grew up in WNY and they're a connection to my youth, it's as simple as that. I don't think I need to apologize for hoping for the best for the team year after year. They're a bad team, but they're my team.

 

I've got no problem with that viewpoint, but the militantly optimistic fans are who I'm referring to. We all want Buffalo to win, but feeding the hope and hype emanating from OBD isn't worth it. I'm not going to get worked up without some results first.

[billsfreak]

Darryl Talley disagrees. As DT said, "I was a player and a fan."

 

 

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Choose who you want, but you have 2 choices:

 

Darryl Talley, former Pro Bowl LB that was a leader on the team who used to run along the sideline before the game started and challenged each and every Bills player to make an impact play;

 

OR

 

Trent Edwards, paycheck collector.

 

 

And one more thing, Terrell Owens was asked the very same question after the very same game.

How did Owens get "it", yet Edwards did not?

Owens was more of a paycheck collector and "me" guy than Edwards could ever be. Nobody on the Bills roster sat out more plays last year than Owens did. Only thing Owens gets is "I love me some me" and "$$$$$"

[billsfreak]

I've got no problem with that viewpoint, but the militantly optimistic fans are who I'm referring to. We all want Buffalo to win, but feeding the hope and hype emanating from OBD isn't worth it. I'm not going to get worked up without some results first.

I agree, and I have been jumped on in this forum several times for that mentality. I cheer as hard as anyone on sundays when the Bills are playing and I have for about 35 years now. But, I am not going to try to convince myself that they are a Super Bowl contender, and Ralph is a great owner, and they hired a historically great coach and front office when they did none of those, and then turn around and criticize someone for not having the same fantasty opinions that I do.

[PromoTheRobot]

We've got some good weapons in Evans, Jax, Lynch, and now Spiller. The problem is with that sad sack of crap O-line there's going to be little time for the QB to stand in the pocket and no holes open for the RB's to get thru. The Bills are positioning themselves well for the 1st pick of the draft in 2011.

Comments like this only embarrass the writer. You are looking at the outcome of endless injury and replacements during the season and declaring the Bills starting five, who barley played together last year, a failure. How do you even do that? Was Wood a failure because he broke his leg? How about Levitre? How do you grade players that literally were picked up on Wednesday and starting on Sunday?

 

I know it's the off-season and people here are desperate for any football talk but this stuff is so far from left field it's not even in the same county.

 

PTR

[CardinalScotts]

Comments like this only embarrass the writer. You are looking at the outcome of endless injury and replacements during the season and declaring the Bills starting five, who barley played together last year, a failure. How do you even do that? Was Wood a failure because he broke his leg? How about Levitre? How do you grade players that literally were picked up on Wednesday and starting on Sunday?

 

I know it's the off-season and people here are desperate for any football talk but this stuff is so far from left field it's not even in the same county.

 

PTR

 

the injuries to o-line almost make this impossible to say but when healthy or nearly healthy our quarterback play was terrible.

given two very good recievers and yes a running game that average 4.5 yards per carry we were not able to score any points. How much of this was Jauron ? I hope a lot but the truth from what I saw was the sack of crap was our quarterbacks both of who have accomplished nothing in a combined 8 years

[Doc]

Recall that Demeco Ryans said that the Bills' offense was easy to figure out.

[thewildrabbit]

So? If Edwards feels that concussions are going to continue to be a problem for him, then he really needs to face that issue and weigh out the pros and cons of continuing to play football.

 

I agree, why ruin your career / life playing for a team that doesn't want to protect its QB's

 

And that goes for any player on any team. Only they can decide when enough is enough, and the risks outweigh the rewards.

 

If you say you would have played irregardless of sustaining another brain injury, then I simply don't believe you! It is easy to say how brave you would be sitting at a computer, a lot different then getting your ass handed to you game after game.

 

Again. I feel for the guy. Still does not change anything

 

I know, like the Brain Westbrook story you don't care...

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athle...ains/index.html

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...ft=1&f=1027

Play to the best of my ability, because that is what I was getting paid to do.

I understand that there are risks, but I am willing to accept those risks in order to play.

 

I think he did just that, it is not his fault if the O line and protections are so bad that they get him injured.

 

In hindsight, it was a softball question. No calling anybody out, no throwing anybody under a bus. A pretty simple question.

Terrell Owens was asked the same question after the same game.

Owens got it.

 

Frankly I don't shiv a git if Edwards gets it or not, I think he did the smart thing by sitting out the mess that was last years team, I would have done the same thing.

 

The question to Edwards was irrelevant. He only confirmed what many people had already speculated based on what they saw out of his play and out of the play of Fitzpatrick.

Watching Fiztpatrick and Edwards play was like watching night and day pass by.

 

At least Fitzpatrick was trying to win.

If Edwards play proved anything, when the going gets tough, he's just there to collect a paycheck.

 

I watched Edwards play really well against the Patriots in the opener and again against Tampa Bay, then I watched him literally run for his against the Saints because of the injuries and changes to the O line and protections. I think he played every game he was in to win.

 

Fitz did good for awhile until the opposing defenses had enough tape on him. and then he looked like poo...

You know what, If I'm Trent Edwards and I see that this new coaching staff did very little to fix last years mess of an offense...

 

Still lacking a decent LT-dominate blocking TE & FB- no deep threat TE- no second receiver.

 

I'd be thinking, how hell can I throw 5 step drops when I won't have time to complete them...here we go again.

[CodeMonkey]

Still lacking a decent LT-dominate blocking TE & FB- no deep threat TE- no second receiver.

We have a second receiver. What we are lacking is a first.

[Koufax]

if you want the best for the Bills long-term, then would you rather they defy the odds and play tough this year, finish 9-7 or 10-6, just miss the playoffs, or make it and fall short, and then next year miss out on the top QB's? Or, lose this year, get experience, and rebound next year with your QB and LT?

 

Rhetorical question, or are you asking me?

 

Because my answer is 9-7, 10-6 WITH NO HESITATION. Gain experience and lose enough to get a top QB? Get experience LOSING is not as valuable as getting experience winning. And drafting #4 is not that much better than drafting #14 when you factor in dollars and uncertainty. Not just to talk about the top QB busts, but realistically compare these picks in the same draft:

 

Ryan #3 vs Flacco #18

Russell #1 vs Quinn #22

V. Young #3 vs Cutler #11

Alex Smith #1 vs Rodgers #22

Eli Manning #1 vs Rothlisberger #11

 

I'm not saying I would rather have the lower guy each time, but those are five straight years where a top 10 QB vs a later first round QB is at least debatable. Drafting high doesn't cure this team. Playing winning football and drafting smart does. I'm in 2010 for what we can do in 2010, not for solidifying our next draft position.

 

 

Back to the original post. If we are healthy this line will be fine. Bell is a project at LT, but is in better position this year even coming off the injury, than as a brand new guy getting thrust in to a no huddle opening week. Gaither would be better, but I think we probably won't give up the picks/players necessary. The rest of our guys give us quality on the line and young depth (so more room for someone to emerge than if it were all veteran depth).

 

A lot of unknowns, but I think we are a lot better than most people think, and Gailey is a good offensive mind to understand the talents we have and design a scheme to work effectively.

[BADOLBILZ]

I agree. Gailey & Nix brought in two strength & conditioning coaches, 1 to specialize on the linemen, the other on the WR's & DB's. With less injuries, that alone should bring the Bills 2-3 more wins.

 

The NFL doesn't work like that. Each game is a battle unto itself. As evidenced by the fact that the Pats went 16-0 one season and the next season the Lions went 0-16. It's not like MLB where the long season always yields champions who win 90-100 games(equivalent of 9-10 wins in football).

 

Although it could be argued in retrospect that without TO the Bills probably win 2-3 less games last season.

[Gabe Northern]

I agree, and I have been jumped on in this forum several times for that mentality. I cheer as hard as anyone on sundays when the Bills are playing and I have for about 35 years now. But, I am not going to try to convince myself that they are a Super Bowl contender, and Ralph is a great owner, and they hired a historically great coach and front office when they did none of those, and then turn around and criticize someone for not having the same fantasty opinions that I do.

 

Please. Hangartner was awful all season long. TiVo the games. Watch the way he was immediately stood up on all running plays. Was Demetrius Bell looking good before the injury? Did that ruin the fantastic play we would have otherwise have had out of the left tackle? What about RT? Did you like what you saw out of Brad Butler in NE? How did you like the decision to sign Jamon Meredith while Jon Runyan was available?

 

Levitre could barely hold his own during the start of the season. He improved greatly and I am encouraged about next year. Wood had similar progression, but may not come back until mid year, I'm afraid.

 

To suggest this commentor embarassed himself is really asinine. You're well-informed but ridiculously optimistic daily posts on this message board honestly make me wonder whether your work for the organization.

[LGB]

To suggest this commentor embarassed himself is really asinine. You're well-informed but ridiculously optimistic daily posts on this message board honestly make me wonder whether your work for the organization.

It would not surprise me in the least that they are several contributors from the "organization" and why not? It is their job to put a positive spin on things and you have to give them credit. Any marketing group that can successfully sell a mediocre (at best) product year after year in a bad economy in a less than desirable market deserves some credit. If the Bills have been good at anything in the last decade, they have been great at putting fans in the stadium and expanding their limited market northward and to the east with camp at SJFC. The decision to play in Toronto was genius. The Bills pocketed a ton of money and publicity - while putting a premium on their remaining games at RWS.