Guys, this starting front-five is a disaster

[BeastMode54]

I am by no means a huge fan of our line. It is not great and we have a lot of problems. However, even if the starting five includes Bell, Wood and Levitre, they were starting on the line in the NFL for the first time in their careers last year. I can't imagine they will be worse. Young players on the line need time to develop. We pretty much have the same line as last year, and I imagine with time to gel, that they will at least be marginally better than last year. What worries me more than anything about this line is how Wood and Bell will be coming off serious injury

[drewfla]

I think Wood is the crushing blow. He was playing really good ball last year and with a full off-season of strength and conditioning, I think he was set to take big step this year.

 

The tackles are what they are....terrible. There is little doubt that we will struggle with off-the-edge pass rushes and will likely have to keep a TE/RB back on most pass plays.

 

Pass protection doesn't look promising, but if it weren't for Wood's injury, I'd at least feel comfortable that our running game (which I assume will be a big part of the offense this year) would be competent. I'd hope we have a lot of counters and screens* built into this playbook.

 

It's going to be very interesting who (if anyone) steps up on the OL this year. One thing's for sure though, as weak as our 1st string looks, cross your damn fingers for no injuries or things will turn from ugly to comical really fast.

 

 

*Speaking of screens...am I the only one who prays to the gods we can develop a good screen pass system again? I thought Marshawn would have been a great screen guy and now with Spiller....WOW! Watching old tapes of Thurman is like poetry in motion.

 

I have to agree with the highlighted portion. That is as big a question mark as to who will play the tackles. I know "reports are" he is ahead of schedule, etc. but really how often do you ever hear a team admit someone is behind schedule or yeah he's never going to be the same player after that injury. He seems like a good kid and for his sake I hope he can come back and play at the same level as last year or higher. We'll have to see but it would not be shocking for him to miss the first 6 weeks on the PUP list in order to let him completely recover.

[Malazan]

You couldn't post this in one of the other 43736272783 threads on the topic?

[Mickey]

I know it's been re-hashed again and again, but I still can't come to grips with it.

 

How on Earth is this offense going to do ANYTHING with the starting front-five looking like it is now?

 

Assume no trade for Gaither (it becomes less likely each day). Your starting front-five looks like this:

 

D. Bell (coming off of serious knee injury; wasn't strong enough or good enough before the injury)

Levitre (solid but young)

Hangartner (average-to-below-average last year, but at least he has some experience)

Wood (coming off of serious leg injury; may not be ready for season)

Green (old; sucks)

 

Backups are Meredith, Wang, Hennessy, Calloway.

 

Yikes.

 

I fail to see how this unit holds up for one game, let alone an entire season. Very little talent, almost no experience, and ZERO depth. Is this coaching staff setting itself up for disaster? I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, but they've done almost NOTHING to address what was the weakest (and most important) link heading into the offseason.

 

I know the common refrain is that this team still ran the ball fairly well last year with the line in shambles, and that Gailey's playcalling and schemes will help make up the difference. Well, I'm calling B.S. on that argument. This team couldn't run a normal offense last year because it had no blockers. If I hear Gailey say during a post-game interview - even one freakin' time - that the offense wasn't able to be effective because the blocking wasn't holding up, then he will officially have lost me. There are no excuses. Either they have a plan, or they plan to fail.

 

Really, look at this roster and tell me you're not terrified.

 

They can only do so much in one off-season. This team had a lot of holes to patch and on top of that, is changing its defense so that the defensive roster needed to be radically changed. They did what they could, they drafted two guys and signed a third and added a playmaker that should make everyone's life easier. This is going to take time.

 

I know there are those that disagree with my prediction on this but I think they are addressing the OL problem primarily by going to a spread offense. The zone blocking that comes with a spread might be a bit more friendly to the OL on our roster. Spiller is an ideal back for a spread. Beasley thrived in a spread at UConn. Levi Brown played a spread at Troy. Chan has used the spread successfully before. I think that is where they are going, it is the scenario that, to me anyway, best explains the draft strategy they ended up pursuing.

 

As I understand it, the spread doesn't rely on behemoth lineman plowing the field but instead uses agile lineman who are able to make the quick decisions needed for zone blocking. They rely more on getting the right angle and out numbering the DL at a critical point.

 

That is all just my best guess and I won't argue with anyone who anticipates something entirely different. In the end, you have to block someone and certainly, that will be the biggest worry for even the most optimisitic of fans going in to this season. But I can't fault them for not being able to fix every thing all at once and so I will be patient.

[JOHNNYFAIRPLAY]

I'm not because I see the whole picture. The Pass protection sucked because of all the guys on IR AND ****ty QB's. That is FACT.

 

Another FACT, this OL put up the 16th best run offense and made a nobody a 1000 yard rusher.

 

Some of you need to stop with the pure bull **** you are spewing because it is exactly that, bull ****. This team and its Lines are NOT anywhere near as bad as stupid fans and stupid media make them out to be.

 

Better strength and conditioning, better coaching, better systems and hopefully better QB play (brohm or brown) and this team is going to make good strides this year.

 

Agree with:

 

Better strength and conditioning, better coaching, better systems.

 

Disagree with:

 

Everything else. 16th best is TERRIBLE. Freddie is somewhat talented, and did most, if not all of this on his own.

 

This team and its lines are not as bad as the fans and media make them out to be...? You're kidding right? They're terrible, in fact they're so terrible, I dont see us winning more than 2 games.

 

**Point is this, they're building a good foundation and in 3 years or so, they'll have a shot at playoffs. But keep your expectations at bay for now DarthIce. I fear you're wrapped up in excitement, and its clouding reality.

 

JFP

[The Big Cat]

Actually, this team couldn't run a normal offense because they spent all training camp working on running the no-huddle, found out mid pre-season it didn't work, then fired their OC just days before the season, along with their starting LT, then scrapped the no-huddle, and suffered numerous injuries on the O-line. So no, I'm not terrrified. Especially when this is year 1 of a new regime.

 

Fred Jsckson averaged 4.5 ypc last season behind this line and its injuries and playing in a cracker jack offense

 

 

Christ, our oline is fine. Even if we don't get Gaither. It's all going to be keyed off the run--just like it has everywhere Gailey has been.

 

 

Sometimes I swear you f'ing people B word just to hear yourselves whine.

 

 

Speak for yourself, moron.

 

The OL is a question mark like the rest of the offense. Have no idea how good or how bad they are.

 

It's tough to spot any trends when all of us fans got a shot at playing OL last year due to all the injuries, plus you had 2-3 rookies starting on any given game day.

 

I can't stress enough that continuity and coaching matters. Trading your LT, canning your OC, adapting to the no-huddle, then throwing that away when it didn't work, protecting three different quarterbacks, all with different throwing progressions and ability to read the defense and routes, canning your HC mid-season, plus all the injuries...it makes Fred Jackson's achievements last year look like weekly miracles.

 

Last year was such an epic mess, and this team still won six games. I think that's a sign that the team has talent.

 

Jerry H Christmas, can you guys just GIVE IT A REST?

 

 

+6

[eball]

Last year was such an epic mess, and this team still won six games. I think that's a sign that the team has talent.

THIS.

 

Not only did they win 6, they were in position to win 5 or 6 more, despite a gazillion injuries, HORRIBLE QB play, an OL that couldn't pass protect, and a D that couldn't stop the run.

 

With competent coaching on the offensive side of the ball, this is an 8-8 team at worst.

[PS 56]

Well, first of all, it's only football, so I'm not "terrified".

 

Secondly, I like our guys. The silver lining to all the injuries is that lots of guys got valuable playing time and nothing beats real game experience in the NFL. I think we're going to be OK.

 

 

"ONLY FOOTBALL"!!!!!!! Never use those two words together. At least not in that order. "Football Only" is OK.

 

Other than that I think we will be OK as well.

[billsfreak]

I know it's been re-hashed again and again, but I still can't come to grips with it.

 

How on Earth is this offense going to do ANYTHING with the starting front-five looking like it is now?

 

Assume no trade for Gaither (it becomes less likely each day). Your starting front-five looks like this:

 

D. Bell (coming off of serious knee injury; wasn't strong enough or good enough before the injury)

Levitre (solid but young)

Hangartner (average-to-below-average last year, but at least he has some experience)

Wood (coming off of serious leg injury; may not be ready for season)

Green (old; sucks)

 

Backups are Meredith, Wang, Hennessy, Calloway.

 

Yikes.

 

I fail to see how this unit holds up for one game, let alone an entire season. Very little talent, almost no experience, and ZERO depth. Is this coaching staff setting itself up for disaster? I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, but they've done almost NOTHING to address what was the weakest (and most important) link heading into the offseason.

 

I know the common refrain is that this team still ran the ball fairly well last year with the line in shambles, and that Gailey's playcalling and schemes will help make up the difference. Well, I'm calling B.S. on that argument. This team couldn't run a normal offense last year because it had no blockers. If I hear Gailey say during a post-game interview - even one freakin' time - that the offense wasn't able to be effective because the blocking wasn't holding up, then he will officially have lost me. There are no excuses. Either they have a plan, or they plan to fail.

 

Really, look at this roster and tell me you're not terrified.

I agree with you, I find it very hard to believe, almost impossible that an NFL team would go into a season with this offensive line (emphasis on OFFENSIVE) without improving it. We had the worst line in the NFL last season and if we go into the 2010 season with this line, not only will we have the worst line in the NFL again, we may be up there with the worst lines in NFL history. You will never be able to tell just what any quarterback is truly capable of behind this joke of a line. All I can say is that whoever wins the QB job I sure hope for their sake, they have a Living Will.

[Frez]

I know it's been re-hashed again and again, but I still can't come to grips with it.

 

How on Earth is this offense going to do ANYTHING with the starting front-five looking like it is now?

 

Assume no trade for Gaither (it becomes less likely each day). Your starting front-five looks like this:

 

D. Bell (coming off of serious knee injury; wasn't strong enough or good enough before the injury)

Levitre (solid but young)

Hangartner (average-to-below-average last year, but at least he has some experience)

Wood (coming off of serious leg injury; may not be ready for season)

Green (old; sucks)

 

Backups are Meredith, Wang, Hennessy, Calloway.

 

Yikes.

 

I fail to see how this unit holds up for one game, let alone an entire season. Very little talent, almost no experience, and ZERO depth. Is this coaching staff setting itself up for disaster? I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, but they've done almost NOTHING to address what was the weakest (and most important) link heading into the offseason.

 

I know the common refrain is that this team still ran the ball fairly well last year with the line in shambles, and that Gailey's playcalling and schemes will help make up the difference. Well, I'm calling B.S. on that argument. This team couldn't run a normal offense last year because it had no blockers. If I hear Gailey say during a post-game interview - even one freakin' time - that the offense wasn't able to be effective because the blocking wasn't holding up, then he will officially have lost me. There are no excuses. Either they have a plan, or they plan to fail.

 

Really, look at this roster and tell me you're not terrified.

 

 

You think the new improved administration would have addressed that during the draft or off season?

 

I don't get it either......

[The Senator]

I know it's been re-hashed again and again, but I still can't come to grips with it.

 

How on Earth is this offense going to do ANYTHING with the starting front-five looking like it is now?

 

Assume no trade for Gaither (it becomes less likely each day). Your starting front-five looks like this:

 

D. Bell (coming off of serious knee injury; wasn't strong enough or good enough before the injury)

Levitre (solid but young)

Hangartner (average-to-below-average last year, but at least he has some experience)

Wood (coming off of serious leg injury; may not be ready for season)

Green (old; sucks)

 

Backups are Meredith, Wang, Hennessy, Calloway.

 

Yikes.

 

I fail to see how this unit holds up for one game, let alone an entire season. Very little talent, almost no experience, and ZERO depth. Is this coaching staff setting itself up for disaster? I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, but they've done almost NOTHING to address what was the weakest (and most important) link heading into the offseason.

 

I know the common refrain is that this team still ran the ball fairly well last year with the line in shambles, and that Gailey's playcalling and schemes will help make up the difference. Well, I'm calling B.S. on that argument. This team couldn't run a normal offense last year because it had no blockers. If I hear Gailey say during a post-game interview - even one freakin' time - that the offense wasn't able to be effective because the blocking wasn't holding up, then he will officially have lost me. There are no excuses. Either they have a plan, or they plan to fail.

 

Really, look at this roster and tell me you're not terrified.

This starting front-five is a disaster??? Really???

 

Funny, I thought they had us tied for first place and hadn't allowed a single sack

 

Guess I'll wait to see them play a down or two before I can agree or disagree - until then...

 

 

 

19 and 0 baby!!!

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

IN CHAN WE TRUST!!!!!

[billsfreak]

You think the new improved administration would have addressed that during the draft or off season?

 

I don't get it either......

There is no proof yet, what so ever, that it is an IMPROVED administration. They may be worse for all we know, only time will tell, but they aren't off to a very good start.

[theranter]

The fact of the matter is if Wood isn't healthy, and they can't aquire a left tackle, the odds heavily favo that the line will be scary...Wood is a MAJOR lynchpin, with Wood and some luck, we might look like a professional football team (as oppossed to last year...now c'mon, we were in fact embarassing most of the time, admit it...) Now if our best guys from last year are healthy and we get a new left tackle of some renown, they might be downright dangerous. Especially with our RB's & an offensive coordinator known for his ability to maximize his available talents.

 

PS- it just occurred to me that in Dallas he had those strong superbowl players that oppossed change, but here he has a team hoping he can save them....big difference when implenting systems.

 

GO BILLS!

[thewildrabbit]

Read his posts. He isn't a moron. We are fans of a team that was destroyed by Levy/Jauron, literally destroyed. The OL is very bad and this isn't new. Levy/Jauron blew chance after chance to build it up, choosing instead to draft a slew of defensive backs, and trade a damn good left tackle in the process.

 

The Bills are going to continue to lose until they solve this issue. How much do you need to see to believe this?

The ONLY thing I can think of as to why this new regime, Nix & Gailey didn't draft 2 top tackles and a center is they believe they can coach up the O line players already on the Bills roster, same with the QB's.

 

Most of this board bleating like baby sheep all the time about the QB's and that they all suck and yet defending the O line players because of injuries.

 

Hey! If the Bills hire 20 new strength and conditioning coaches does that mean the team goes undefeated?

 

 

Get one thing straight, until this team only allows less then 30 sacks a year this team is going nowhere. Last time I looked the Bills don't have Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Payton Manning, Drew Brees or Tom Brady. It is a team game and the QB is only as good as his line, and the team is only as good as the QB.

 

Get the frickin QB the best help and protections you can, if he fails at that point then you know it is him and not other factors, until the people at OBD realize this point the team will always struggle offensively.

 

From what I see so far this team has very inferior O line except at guard, QB can't take more then a 3 step drop because of the lack of talent, inferior second WR, no decent TE threat. no dominate blocking TE, no dominate blocking FB

[Peter]

Get one thing straight, until this team only allows less then 30 sacks a year this team is going nowhere. Last time I looked the Bills don't have Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Payton Manning, Drew Brees or Tom Brady. It is a team game and the QB is only as good as his line, and the team is only as good as the QB.

 

Get the frickin QB the best help and protections you can, if he fails at that point then you know it is him and not other factors, until the people at OBD realize this point the team will always struggle offensively.

 

I agree.

[sllib olaffub]

I'm no expert, not a coach - it occured to me the other day that there is probably not very much difference in play between a probowl LT and an average LT. giving up two sacks in a season compared to giving up eight sacks might only be a difference of not having the right footing on half a dozen plays throughout the whole year. Sure, that's an oversimplification, but really, at the NFL level, a serviceable group of lineman and a good group might be separated more by coaching than by physical ability. So, lets hope our coaches can do it.

I get the impression - and I've stated it here a bunch lately - is that the Bills are willing to lose this year to get their QB next year, and that next year they plan on having the pieces - although it'll probably take a year to gel - so, they're probably telling themselves 2011 - 2012 is when they'll be really competing for a Super Bowl.

I agree with Sullivan here: if you want the best for the Bills long-term, then would you rather they defy the odds and play tough this year, finish 9-7 or 10-6, just miss the playoffs, or make it and fall short, and then next year miss out on the top QB's? Or, lose this year, get experience, and rebound next year with your QB and LT?

Ideally - and this is what I'm hoping to see - we pick up one of the two LT's available now that are top talent, and we do play nasty, tough defense, run the ball great, have smart QB play (like the recent tampa bay or baltimore SB teams) and make the playoffs - or, at least regain respectability - and next year we trade whatever we have to for the QB of our choice. If we get a LT this year, then we'll only be a QB shy, maybe a WR, of having a really good team. I think that is the best we can hope for.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The ONLY thing I can think of as to why this new regime, Nix & Gailey didn't draft 2 top tackles and a center is they believe they can coach up the O line players already on the Bills roster, same with the QB's.

 

Most of this board bleating like baby sheep all the time about the QB's and that they all suck and yet defending the O line players because of injuries.

 

Hey! If the Bills hire 20 new strength and conditioning coaches does that mean the team goes undefeated?

 

 

Get one thing straight, until this team only allows less then 30 sacks a year this team is going nowhere. Last time I looked the Bills don't have Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Payton Manning, Drew Brees or Tom Brady. It is a team game and the QB is only as good as his line, and the team is only as good as the QB.

 

Get the frickin QB the best help and protections you can, if he fails at that point then you know it is him and not other factors, until the people at OBD realize this point the team will always struggle offensively.

 

From what I see so far this team has very inferior O line except at guard, QB can't take more then a 3 step drop because of the lack of talent, inferior second WR, no decent TE threat. no dominate blocking TE, no dominate blocking FB

They did the QB no favors last year. Total coaching failure: switching to the pseudopod no-huddle "system", dumbing it down, firing the OC, dumping the "system", going with a play-caller with no experience and an offensive staff of limited experience. Indeed, it looks to me like Schonert brow beat Jauron into changing the system to jump start the offense and the more Jauron slept on it, the less he liked it and the more uncomfortable he was with going away from his favored ultra-conservative approach. Jauron's blind spot, and what has sealed his legacy as a failure as a HC in the NFL, was his inability to hire an experienced NFL offensive coach and turn that part of the team over to him to run. As far as the team around the QB, they blew up the OL and went into the season with 6 positions out of 6 being manned by different people. Throw in TO and the fact that Bong Lynch got himself suspended and you had 8 out of 11 positions changed. Continuity comprised only of Edwards, Evans, and the Reed/McIntyre/whoever spot is simply not enough. Edwards showed he wasn't the sort of QB that is going to take command of the mess and forge a team through sheer force of will. Instead he sat on the end of the bench and offered quips like "I'm not a fan", I'm just punching the clock for my paycheck. One really wants to jump in a foxhole with a guy like that. Not.

[yungmack]

[Automated Response]

 

We suck. The coaching staff sucks. The players suck. We have no hope of ever winning a championship. Oh woe is me.

Ah, the mantra around here! But you left this out: "Even the garbage another team is trying to get rid of is better than any Bills player. Trade next year's picks NOW. Git'er done, Buddy."

 

Some of these guys sound like they could replace Jamie Dukes on NFLN.

[yungmack]

+1

Coach Tuesday's analysis is terrible. The inside of our line is set and it's a darn good one too if Wood can return to form. We are very weak at T. Nonetheless, a trade a a legitimate starter turns what would have been a below average starter (Bell/Wang) into a pretty decent backup. The OL is 2 players away from being a strength. 1 player away from being respectable.

Are you serious? Or am I missing the sarcasm? Last I looked, Wang hasn't even signed a contract with the Bills and you already have him listed as not only a starter but "a below average" one at that. And I suppose you're one of the naifs around here that think that Gaither's the answer...that the Ravens are so dumb that they're trying to get rid of him because they can't see his massive talent as only people on this board can.

[yungmack]

Totally disagree. I think he does a very good job, and this isn't saying much, but he's probably the best center the Bills have had since Kent Hull. He's not in Hull's league yet, but the Bills have had AWFUL centers since Hull retired. Hangartner is the best of the group.

+1