whateverdude Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 So am I to believe that they are re-building on top of an existing mosque built 152 years ago in NYC? The Landmarks Preservation Commission voted unanimously to deny landmark status to a building two blocks from the World Trade Center site that developers want to tear down and convert into an Islamic community center and mosque. The panel said the 152-year-old lower Manhattan building isn't distinctive enough to be considered a landmark. So which is it, new mosque on top of old mosque or just a new mosque being built in a new location?
KD in CA Posted August 15, 2010 Posted August 15, 2010 OK fine, but Im not willfully ignorant here. I live and work on Long Island. How the !@#$ would I know whats going down there? And like MOST, I have zero clue that this site is already used in that capacity. And again...BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT, where are all those "in the know" to help educate those who are not? Who is REALLY "wrong" here...those who dont know and have concerns, or those who DO know and wont open their traps to educate? I say the latter. "Educate" you about what? That some dirty Muzzies snuck into hallowed ground to worship their evil pagan? Since when does the freedom to practice religion come with geographical conditions??
GG Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 OK fine, but Im not willfully ignorant here. I live and work on Long Island. How the !@#$ would I know whats going down there? And like MOST, I have zero clue that this site is already used in that capacity. And again...BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT, where are all those "in the know" to help educate those who are not? Who is REALLY "wrong" here...those who dont know and have concerns, or those who DO know and wont open their traps to educate? I say the latter. The only reason you became aware of it is because some concerned citizen wanted to sound the alarm about the new center and the sensitivities that accompany it. Meanwhile, these people have been using it as a mosque for years and no one really cared. Not only that, but thousands of Muslims work at Ground Zero and on the periphery. Should they be asked to leave all areas south of Canal Street because that would be the sensitive thing to do to the survivors? What about the Muslims who persihed in the attacks? Do they not count in the sensitivities? This whole charade has been about political posturing and nothing else. And frankly, the 9/11 activist groups have been getting away with way too much in the reconstruction and the politics of downtown. If they're so concerned about the sacred ground, why is it ok for commuter trains & construction equipment to trample on the ashes of the departed? If they really wanted to stand their ground, then the site should have been left as of 9/12/01.
RkFast Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 "Educate" you about what? That some dirty Muzzies snuck into hallowed ground to worship their evil pagan? Since when does the freedom to practice religion come with geographical conditions?? Youre being a jackass. Educate "me" or anyone else who has concerns about this mosque about who is building it, what its being built for and alleviate concerns over what the building of it really means. People have legit concerns. I would think that if for nothing else than good community relations, the people building this thing would reach out to the folks who have questions to educate and alleviate them. This guy Rauf prides himself on "building bridges between Islam and the West." Im asking him to do no more than that.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 "Educate" you about what? That some dirty Muzzies snuck into hallowed ground to worship their evil pagan? Since when does the freedom to practice religion come with geographical conditions?? I have no issue with where they worship. But I also have no issue with people putting up bars and hog slaughter shops next door either.
DC Tom Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 I have no issue with where they worship. But I also have no issue with people putting up bars and hog slaughter shops next door either. Neither do I. If they don't like it, they can take it up with the local zoning board.
KD in CA Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Youre being a jackass. Educate "me" or anyone else who has concerns about this mosque about who is building it, what its being built for and alleviate concerns over what the building of it really means. People have legit concerns. I would think that if for nothing else than good community relations, the people building this thing would reach out to the folks who have questions to educate and alleviate them. This guy Rauf prides himself on "building bridges between Islam and the West." Im asking him to do no more than that. People have 'legit concerns'? Like what? They are building a house of worship, presumably so they have a place to go to......worship. Are you also up in arms over the Muslim Center being built in San Gabriel Valley, CA? How about the one in Kentwood, MI?
1billsfan Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 People have 'legit concerns'? Like what? They are building a house of worship, presumably so they have a place to go to......worship. Are you also up in arms over the Muslim Center being built in San Gabriel Valley, CA? How about the one in Kentwood, MI? They are building a 10 story/100 million dollar middle finger to all of the people who perished on 911. The fact that there's so much outrage (predictably so) and yet they're still going full speed ahead just goes to show you that this isn't about building a "house of worship," it's about embarrassing America on the victims of 911 on the grandest of stages.
GG Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 They are building a 10 story/100 million dollar middle finger to all of the people who perished on 911. The fact that there's so much outrage (predictably so) and yet they're still going full speed ahead just goes to show you that this isn't about building a "house of worship," it's about embarrassing America on the victims of 911 on the grandest of stages. Why is it that people who were there on 9/11 are the least embarrassed by the cultural center?
1billsfan Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Why is it that people who were there on 9/11 are the least embarrassed by the cultural center? We must be reading differing reports on the reaction. From what I've read, the number of those people who hold this opinion is a fraction. Let me ask you this, what should the feelings be of the people of Oklahoma City when Tim McVie's family members build a museum honoring him next to the parking lot that was once the federal building? Would you be in favor of them doing this (because it's their legal right) or would you be opposed to that?
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 We must be reading differing reports on the reaction. From what I've read, the number of those people who hold this opinion is a fraction. Let me ask you this, what should the feelings be of the people of Oklahoma City when Tim McVie's family members build a museum honoring him next to the parking lot that was once the federal building? Would you be in favor of them doing this (because it's their legal right) or would you be opposed to that? What a useless analogy. You see a Muslim cultural center as a monument to the specific guys who hijacked the planes. That's so misguided.
1billsfan Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 What a useless analogy. You see a Muslim cultural center as a monument to the specific guys who hijacked the planes. That's so misguided. Only people like you would need to see actual highjacker portraits in the building for it to dawn on you that this 10 story mosque is nothing but a big muslim fist bump to the jihadists around the globe. They want you to convert or die, and this is the biggest billboard ever that will further the cause. They said that they're trying to heal wounds between religions, well it's clearly having the opposite effect and they obviously couldn't care less. So that right there should tell you that they are full of !@#$ with the reasoning for why and where they are building it.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Only people like you would need to see actual highjacker portraits in the building for it to dawn on you that this 10 story mosque is nothing but a big muslim fist bump to the jihadists around the globe. They want you to convert or die, and this is the biggest billboard ever that will further the cause. They said that they're trying to heal wounds between religions, well it's clearly having the opposite effect and they obviously couldn't care less. So that right there should tell you that they are full of !@#$ with the reasoning for why and where they are building it. I don't really care. Nobody's coming to get me. Listen, there are a large number of Muslims in New York. They deserve the same right to worship as everybody else. If it had been fringe-lunatic Jewish folks who had committed the act of terror on 9/11, would you be opposed to the existence of synagogues in that general area?
3rdnlng Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 What a useless analogy. You see a Muslim cultural center as a monument to the specific guys who hijacked the planes. That's so misguided. A Mosque built that close to the TC site is pretty insensitive and provocative. It is my understanding that it is a Muslim custom to build Mosques at sites of their "victories", thus what very well may be the reason for naming it the Cordoba Center. Cordoba, a city in Spain was captured many years ago by Muslims. They built a Mosque there too. I can see a lot of construction delays. If it ever does get built, I can see it getting vandalized on a steady basis. I'm actually conflicted in this case. If they would let a Catholic Church or a Synagogue go there they should allow the Mosque, but it is damn stupid and arrogant of the Iman to want it there in the first place. Remember he stated that the USA "created" Bin Laden and also refuses to call Hamas a terrorist organization. It'll be so comforting to see the pilgramages by young Muslims men to the site of their greatest victory over the "Great Satan".
Magox Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 I think most rational people would agree that they have a "Right" to build a mosque pretty much wherever they please. The real question was it "Right" for them to do so? If they truly wanted this to be a symbol to reach out to Christian and Jewish Americans as they claim, then I would believe that they would respect the wishes of the people of the city of New York, who by just about a 2 to 1 margin disapprove of the building of the mosque in this location. The fact that they had a mosque at this location prior to 9/11 is a moot point. That was PRE 9/11. Things have changed since then, and it is still fresh in the minds of many people. I'm not saying that they shouldn't build it here, but if they truly want to build a better relationship with the Western world as they claim, then they are doing a ****ty job of showing it. The reality is that IF they build this mosque at this location, it will be scrutinized and will serve as a symbol to MANY of the day of 9/11. To say that their efforts will be counterproductive will be an understatement, it is a divisive and polarizing issue and will remain that way unless they come to their better senses and respect the wish of the majority. If they were sincere with their offering of an Olive branch they would coordinate their efforts and move the mosque to a more socially acceptable location.
1billsfan Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 I don't really care. Nobody's coming to get me. Listen, there are a large number of Muslims in New York. They deserve the same right to worship as everybody else. If it had been fringe-lunatic Jewish folks who had committed the act of terror on 9/11, would you be opposed to the existence of synagogues in that general area? Tell that to the 2976 people who were murdered that day. To answer your question, yes I would be opposed. Also, any other religion would not even think of moving forward with this level of shameful provocation. I heard that there are 30-50 mosques in the NYC. They can go to one of those and be respectful to the memory of the most traumatic day in modern US history.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Tell that to the 2976 people who were murdered that day. To answer your question, yes I would be opposed. Also, any other religion would not even think of moving forward with this level of shameful provocation. I heard that there are 30-50 mosques in the NYC. They can go to one of those and be respectful to the memory of the most traumatic day in modern US history. Ok, I think that probably nobody is coming to get me. Frankly, I don't understand how worshiping Allah in the vicinity of ground zero is all that disrespectful. It wasn't the Muslim religion at large that attacked America, it was a group of people from a fringe organization hell bent on destruction. I think you'd be surprised about the percentage of Muslims worldwide who would slit their necks before associating with Osama Bin Laden or Al Qaeda.
1billsfan Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Ok, I think that probably nobody is coming to get me. Frankly, I don't understand how worshiping Allah in the vicinity of ground zero is all that disrespectful. It wasn't the Muslim religion at large that attacked America, it was a group of people from a fringe organization hell bent on destruction. I think you'd be surprised about the percentage of Muslims worldwide who would slit their necks before associating with Osama Bin Laden or Al Qaeda. Perhaps it's the highjackers' screams of "Allahu Akbar!!!! Allahu Akbar!!!!" right before they turned the World Trade Center Twin Towers in the lower end of NYC into a gigantic, smoldering pile of rubble that included 2976 innocent people. You seriously need to get your head examined. The only reason muslims here weren't cheering and dancing in the streets was because they were scared of us back then. If a 911 happened again I could see muslims dancing in the streets right here in America because they no longer respect us or our wuss of a president. The fact that they are even trying this just shows you how little respect they have for this country and the people in it.
3rdnlng Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Ok, I think that probably nobody is coming to get me. Frankly, I don't understand how worshiping Allah in the vicinity of ground zero is all that disrespectful. It wasn't the Muslim religion at large that attacked America, it was a group of people from a fringe organization hell bent on destruction. I think you'd be surprised about the percentage of Muslims worldwide who would slit their necks before associating with Osama Bin Laden or Al Qaeda. Did you not see on tv the celebrations throughout the Muslim world when word and pictures got out regarding the destruction of the towers? It was sickening.
Magox Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 Perhaps it's the highjackers' screams of "Allahu Akbar!!!! Allahu Akbar!!!!" right before they turned the World Trade Center Twin Towers in the lower end of NYC into a gigantic, smoldering pile of rubble that included 2976 innocent people. You seriously need to get your head examined. The only reason muslims here weren't cheering and dancing in the streets was because they were scared of us back then. If a 911 happened again I could see muslims dancing in the streets right here in America because they no longer respect us or our wuss of a president. The fact that they are even trying this just shows you how little respect they have for this country and the people in it. You are doing a poor job of making the correct argument.
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