Mosque coming to Ground Zero

[bills_fan]

Okay, something to to laugh about this morning.

 

Greg Gutfeld, who does a kind of bizarre political/humor show on Fox at 3 a.m. called "Red Eye" has decided to open a bar near where the Mosque is being proposed at Ground Zero; and the bar will be specifically for gay Muslims. Not sure if he was originally joking, but now he's apparently dead serious about it, and recently was having a Twitter battle with the folks called Park 51, who are supporting the Mosque (link here).

 

This has led to thread on Hot Air (link here) where posters are recommending names for the bar. Some seriously funny schitt including Brokeback Mecca, The Bobbin' Turban, Ram-A-Dan and Allah Cockbar.

 

 

Lovin it! If you are going to argue that the mosque has a right to exist in that spot (which I personally have no issue with), then so does the gay bar, the BBQ pork place, the strip club and the rub 'n' tug that will also be on the block. Private property and land use right for everyone. Can't argue freedom and property rights without applying that same freedom to everyone.

[KD in CA]

Lovin it! If you are going to argue that the mosque has a right to exist in that spot (which I personally have no issue with), then so does the gay bar, the BBQ pork place, the strip club and the rub 'n' tug that will also be on the block. Private property and land use right for everyone. Can't argue freedom and property rights without applying that same freedom to everyone.

I presume New York Dolls is still around the corner on Murray Street!

 

 

Obama's comments on the topic were spot on; Muslims have the same rights as any other religion.

 

Of course, the next day he once again proves to be a jellyfish of a leader by back-peddling in the face of criticism. But at least the press got to fawn all over him for taking another vacation, so that's good.

[RkFast]

I guess I dont understand why Rauf cant just address the issues that most people like myself seem to have with this thing.

 

Do you or do you not feel that the US was complicit in 9/11?

Do you or do you not seek to advance Sharia law in the US? Do you feel it has a place in the US?

How would you address the concern that that some have that this building would be a symbol not of outreach, but of conquest or "victory?"

 

The first two questions come out of comments Rauf, himself made. The third is historically based. He would quell A LOT of concerns over this proposal if he just manned up and spoke to people. Maybe, just maybe if he clarifed his postion and his motives, he would garner some support and covert many of the opposed.

 

But I guess its easier to keep quiet and just call people bigots, or stupid, or Islamophobic, etc.

 

And not for nothing...lets see a Christian group try to build a Church in "Londonistan" or some of the neighborhoods in the midwest that have a large Muslim population. Would we see the "tolerance" we are all expected to show right now? I doubt it.

[GG]

I guess I dont understand why Rauf cant just address the issues that most people like myself seem to have with this thing.

 

Do you or do you not feel that the US was complicit in 9/11?

Do you or do you not seek to advance Sharia law in the US? Do you feel it has a place in the US?

How would you address the concern that that some have that this building would be a symbol not of outreach, but of conquest or "victory?"

 

The first two questions come out of comments Rauf, himself made. The third is historically based. He would quell A LOT of concerns over this proposal if he just manned up and spoke to people. Maybe, just maybe if he clarifed his postion and his motives, he would garner some support and covert many of the opposed.

 

But I guess its easier to keep quiet and just call people bigots, or stupid, or Islamophobic, etc.

 

And not for nothing...lets see a Christian group try to build a Church in "Londonistan" or some of the neighborhoods in the midwest that have a large Muslim population. Would we see the "tolerance" we are all expected to show right now? I doubt it.

 

Can't answer the first two Qs, but the last one borders on ignorant. The group has been using the site as a mosque for years now, which attracts a lot of worshippers. The only reason that people are up in arms is that they want to replace the building with a new center. No one seems to care about the existing religiuous use, which is in a nondescript boarded up facade.

 

Somehow, I don't think that Christian groups would have a hard time building a church in Detroit or London. Now, if you would like to point out other religions have in Middle East or South Asia, then you would have a point. But that's not the debate around this center.

[RkFast]

Can't answer the first two Qs, but the last one borders on ignorant.

 

Well, that proves my point!

 

If Im ignorant, Id like to think NOT on purpose, then this Imam or others in the Muslim community should be TEEACHING ME....TELLING ME what this is all about.

 

If I have an idea on something, one thats not correct, its up to the scholars to tell me whats up. Not the other way around.

[RI Bills Fan]

Well, that proves my point!

 

If Im ignorant, Id like to think NOT on purpose, then this Imam or others in the Muslim community should be TEEACHING ME....TELLING ME what this is all about.

 

If I have an idea on something, one thats not correct, its up to the scholars to tell me whats up. Not the other way around.

 

Actually, I would think that before making a decision as to whether something is good or bad, a reasonable person would gather and peruse as much unbiased factual information as possible in order to have a working knowledge of the pros and cons of the situation in question and to avoid appearing to be an unabashed shill.

 

But then again, this is PPP where such behaviours are regularly derided and mocked.

[GG]

Well, that proves my point!

 

If Im ignorant, Id like to think NOT on purpose, then this Imam or others in the Muslim community should be TEEACHING ME....TELLING ME what this is all about.

 

If I have an idea on something, one thats not correct, its up to the scholars to tell me whats up. Not the other way around.

 

It's ignorant because no one had a problem with the mosque being used for years in that exact same location.

[The Big Cat]

How would you address the concern that that some have that this building would be a symbol not of outreach, but of conquest or "victory?"

 

Kinda makes you ashamed to be American (read: Non-Muslim).

 

I mean geeze, all we have to show for is a giant hole in the ground. These guys are throwin' down coin for an undeniable symbol of conquest.

 

I guess they win.

[RkFast]

Actually, I would think that before making a decision as to whether something is good or bad, a reasonable person would gather and peruse as much unbiased factual information as possible in order to have a working knowledge of the pros and cons of the situation in question and to avoid appearing to be an unabashed shill.

 

But then again, this is PPP where such behaviours are regularly derided and mocked.

 

Yeah...becuase a quick google search or a trip to the library is gonna answer all the questions one might have about a religion and how its practiced.

 

People devote their life's work to studying a religion. Why should it be incumbent on THEM to explain things when we have Google?

[RkFast]

It's ignorant because no one had a problem with the mosque being used for years in that exact same location.

 

You know that becuase you work there. How about the rest of the planet?

[Rob's House]

It's ignorant because no one had a problem with the mosque being used for years in that exact same location.

 

Just to clarify word usage, is the reason it's ignorant b/c in your estimation it's indicative of one being uneducated on a topic on which he generally should be educated?

[DC Tom]

Just to clarify word usage, is the reason it's ignorant b/c in your estimation it's indicative of one being uneducated on a topic on which he generally should be educated?

 

Isn't that the definition of "ignorance"?

[Rob's House]

Isn't that the definition of "ignorance"?

 

Exactly. The misusage of this word is a real pet peeve of mine. Not that GG was (why I was clarifying) but all too often users seem to think it's synonymous with insensitivity or moral depravity.

[DC Tom]

Exactly. The misusage of this word is a real pet peeve of mine. Not that GG was (why I was clarifying) but all too often users seem to think it's synonymous with insensitivity or moral depravity.

 

I think the usage fits in this case, though. Anyone pissed by a mosque being built at this location is ignorant of the fact that a mosque already exists at this location.

 

And is ignorant of the First Amendment, for that matter. I'd say they were ignorant about the federal government's role in regulating private contracts and business dealings, too...but this administration has stomped all over that set of principles and precedents so much that it's not even relevant.

[Magox]

I think the usage fits in this case, though. Anyone pissed by a mosque being built at this location is ignorant of the fact that a mosque already exists at this location.

 

And is ignorant of the First Amendment, for that matter. I'd say they were ignorant about the federal government's role in regulating private contracts and business dealings, too...but this administration has stomped all over that set of principles and precedents so much that it's not even relevant.

I don't know, but watching BO flip flop on the issue is rather humorous....

[DC Tom]

I don't know, but watching BO flip flop on the issue is rather humorous....

 

And it's not like this is a difficult issue: the federal government has precisely no legal standing in and ****-all involvement with it, period, end of story. ANY other statement by the federal government is blithering idiocy.

[Rob's House]

And it's not like this is a difficult issue: the federal government has precisely no legal standing in and ****-all involvement with it, period, end of story. ANY other statement by the federal government is blithering idiocy.

 

Sounds like a non-issue being used to stir up some hype on a slow news cycle.

[KD in CA]

Sounds like a non-issue being used to stir up some hype on a slow news cycle an election year.

Fixed.

 

 

Which reminds me, how's the outrage over Gitmo going lately? Any protests coming up?

[Rob's House]

Fixed.

 

 

Which reminds me, how's the outrage over Gitmo going lately? Any protests coming up?

 

Remember in 2004 when outsourcing became the key issue in our lives only to dissipate by the end of November?

[RkFast]

I think the usage fits in this case, though. Anyone pissed by a mosque being built at this location is ignorant of the fact that a mosque already exists at this location.

 

And is ignorant of the First Amendment, for that matter. I'd say they were ignorant about the federal government's role in regulating private contracts and business dealings, too...but this administration has stomped all over that set of principles and precedents so much that it's not even relevant.

 

OK fine, but Im not willfully ignorant here. I live and work on Long Island. How the !@#$ would I know whats going down there? And like MOST, I have zero clue that this site is already used in that capacity.

 

And again...BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT, where are all those "in the know" to help educate those who are not?

 

Who is REALLY "wrong" here...those who dont know and have concerns, or those who DO know and wont open their traps to educate?

 

I say the latter.