ESPN Captain Checkdown Article

[RealityCheck]

Unless you lived under a rock last year or are a family member we all knew that Trent didn't have the arm or the stones to throw the ball down field. ESPN has confirmed what we already knew. Trent threw just over 1% of his passes over 40yds in the air and 25% of his passes BEHIND the line of scrimmage.

 

Don't give me the BS about the short passing game can work, and there are a tiny handful of weak armed QBs that have had success in this league blah blah blah. Without the threat of the deep pass the short game gets crushed. I hope that Gailey gets this concept. Personally I was tired of watching passes out to the RBs in the flat and defenders being on them before the ball even got there. WHY? Because they knew that Trent couldn't go deep effectively.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...kick-in-spiller

This is a prime example of why I could care less about the sports media. All of us have seen it with our own eyes for a long time now. Thanks ESPN for validating the obvious. One interesting side note however is that Frito Lay will offer their own version of Chex Mix called Captain Check Down Mix with you know who as their spokesmen. I guess it's a $400,000 endorsement deal. Only in America!

[PDaDdy]

So you were rooting for the Bills' starting QB to fail so you can been proven right on a message board? Wow, you must feel awesome now!!!

 

I don't think that is what he was saying at all. I think he was saying, liked I believed, that he has known Edwards was going to fail before last season even started. I don't take comfort in the fact that my/our prediction came true but I am pissed that we had to waste another year just to see our fears come to true.

[PDaDdy]

We might not all agree on Trent... but, one thing I think we can all agree on is we had a head coach whose only use is as a career defensive back coach. It starts and ends there. To exacerbate the situation, you had an OC that really doesn't belong on the pro level (at least not yet) coaching any position. Add to that the offensive line issues, and it's the perfect storm. Aside from the Tampa game and the Colt's lay down game, Fitz didn't do much either. And, with Brohm, we don't have enough evidence to convict or aquit.

 

In reality, this is Edwards first crack with any real pro level offensive mind at his disposal, and probably his last chance to be be a starting QB in the NFL.

 

I don't know how it's going tho shake out... and I really don't care. There are four QBs going to camp, none of which I'm a "fanboy" of. But, one of them will be rubbing Hangrtner's ass on opening day. If it's Edwards, so be it. If not, so be it. I think he deserves a shot with the new staff just as much as the other three. If he shoots himself in the foot... so what. He won't have anyone left to blame but himself.

 

If we are going to keep giving shots to losers we may as well bring JP back. He suffered from exactly the same coaching woes, Mularkey and getting jerked in and out of the starting lineup. At least he was a first round pick with a cannon for an arm and 4.5 speed.

[PDaDdy]

The stats Tim provided were enlightening, but without a base to compare them against, it is kind of hard to determine how bad trent's stats really are. What is the league average for starting qbs? Then compare Trent to those stats...that would mean something.

 

 

There is realative "suck" and absolute "suck". We don't know how badly Trent sucks compared to other QBs BUT we do know that 2 attempts for a half a season is ABSOLUTELY sucky.

[GR8PRKN]

Didn't Jauron fire Turk Schonert because Schonert wouldn't run the "pop-warner" offense Jauron wanted?

 

 

Who Knows that is what Turk said.. Sour grapes.....

[John from Riverside]

Its just that if you dont at least show the THREAT of using the intermediate level of the field the short game wont work.......

 

I dont hate Trent......but his propensity to look for the short pass FIRST is maddening

[thewildrabbit]

I'm more optimistic than you obviously but you're overstating the oline problems. I think Meredith is the RT of the future and has a ton of potential. Also, the Hang man was playing next to 2 rookies and takes a lot of heat because of it. I expect the oline to be vastly improved though we do have a huge question mark at LT.

 

You're kinda of being lazy with this point. Cameron had a terrible record as a head coach in his only previous job at Indiana. Gailey has a winning NFL record as a head coach, went to the playoffs twice, and had a winning record as a college head coach. There is no comparison between the two.

I don't have any idea where you can possibly think the O line to be vastly improved, you are talking about the Bills O line right?

 

Every player on last years line stunk it up, EVERY PLAYER! Even when they were healthy they still graded out as some of the worst in the NFL. If you watched them game after game and noticed they couldn't pass block very well at all, both tackle positions caved in with almost every play.

 

Without clear upgrades at either tackle position I see a repeat of last seasons performances. Lets not forget that Gailey didn't hire just experienced NFL coaches, he hired a bunch of college coaches who need to learn how to coach in the NFL.

 

 

My point about pulling a Dolphin is that like Cam Cameron who passed on a QB and linemen to take what he thought would be an "exciting player" for the offense in Ted Ginn Jr. Gailey might have done the same thing with Spiller and it may come back to haunt him.

 

BTW, I was being generous with 4 wins, I honestly believe that with no upgrades at tackle, WR, QB and totally revamped defensive and offensive schemes, the Bills could very well be playing for that #1 overall this year.

 

I'm not drinking the Nix / Gailey old boy connection koolaid just yet...

[thewildrabbit]

I looked up Trents stats on CBSsports.com and here is what I got.

 

 

CAT G Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int 1st 1st % 20+ Sac Rate

ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 0 67 39 58.2 387 5.78 39 2 1 18 46.2 4 0 78.4

ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 0 60 40 66.7 435 7.25 46 2 1 19 47.5 6 0 92.0

ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 0 49 26 53.1 267 5.45 37 1 5 15 57.7 3 0 36.2

ATTEMPTS 31+ 0 7 5 71.4 80 11.43 43 1 0 1 20.0 1 0 148.8

 

They aren't coming out right no matter how I adjust them in this post, just read them on the link and notice he threw 7 passes for more then +31 yards, completed 5 and one was a TD. Now go back and re watch the games and count the seconds for each passing play. I'll bet he had 3 seconds or less on most passing plays when he was behind center, kinda tough to throw when you take a 5 step drop and meet both DE's when you reach the 5th step.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playe...w;pageContainer

 

 

 

Notice the last sentence...

 

With an offensive line still in tatters, Spiller still might be able to jitter his way to extra yardage on passes out of the backfield.

[PDaDdy]

Its just that if you dont at least show the THREAT of using the intermediate level of the field the short game wont work.......

 

I dont hate Trent......but his propensity to look for the short pass FIRST is maddening

 

+1

[PDaDdy]

I don't have any idea where you can possibly think the O line to be vastly improved, you are talking about the Bills O line right?

 

Every player on last years line stunk it up, EVERY PLAYER! Even when they were healthy they still graded out as some of the worst in the NFL. If you watched them game after game and noticed they couldn't pass block very well at all, both tackle positions caved in with almost every play.

 

Without clear upgrades at either tackle position I see a repeat of last seasons performances. Lets not forget that Gailey didn't hire just experienced NFL coaches, he hired a bunch of college coaches who need to learn how to coach in the NFL.

 

 

My point about pulling a Dolphin is that like Cam Cameron who passed on a QB and linemen to take what he thought would be an "exciting player" for the offense in Ted Ginn Jr. Gailey might have done the same thing with Spiller and it may come back to haunt him.

 

BTW, I was being generous with 4 wins, I honestly believe that with no upgrades at tackle, WR, QB and totally revamped defensive and offensive schemes, the Bills could very well be playing for that #1 overall this year.

 

 

I'm not drinking the Nix / Gailey old boy connection koolaid just yet...

 

Ted Ginn Jr was an ENOURMOUS reach. Spiller was generally accepted to be the most dynamic play maker in the draft and in most pundits top 4 players in the entire draft as I heard.

[thewildrabbit]

Ted Ginn Jr was an ENOURMOUS reach. Spiller was generally accepted to be the most dynamic play maker in the draft and in most pundits top 4 players in the entire draft as I heard.

 

Yea well, it still might come back to haunt him...

 

Anthony Davis was there...Mike Iupati was there...Maurkice Pouncey was there...Brian Bulaga was there.

[PDaDdy]

Yea well, it still might come back to haunt him...

 

Anthony Davis was there...Mike Iupati was there...Maurkice Pouncey was there...Brian Bulaga was there.

 

You could make a great case for drafting a LT although Anthony Davis and Bulaga didn't end up nearly as high on my list as Okung and Williams. I eventually came around to the Spiller idea and that is who we did eventually end up drafting. Any given year we should be able to draft a good quality LT like we passed up on this year. You don't see a dynamic playmaker with ludicrous speed like Spiller every year. That being said I was fully expecting Buffalo to get a LT in the second round or find an above average free agent to man the spot.

 

I REALLY wanted an LT but when you have a chance to grab a guy like Spiller....you get him!!!

 

PREPARE FOR LUDICROUS SPEED!!!!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

damn! Timmy took out some Leonidas frustration on ol Trentative! good to see the national media calling players out, even if we've all known it for a while.

 

 

Since Spiller is labeled as his "sidekick", what's his super-hero nickname going to be??

[Dr. K]

If Jauron didn't entirely screw up everything he touched on the offense... plus his failure to hire any assistant coach with experience when he had the chance showed me he was a complete fool.

 

Chan Gailey is noted for being a good QB coach and should be able to coach up the current QB's, my problem is that even with better coaching the O line is still lacking 3 out 5 decent players, and both tackle positions are a joke.

 

Unless they upgrade the LT position with a proven player in a trade... it really won't matter which QB starts this season. Most NFL experts are picking the Bills to finish last in the NFL at 2-4 wins, I agree.

 

I wonder if the Bills pulled a Dolphin and hired another Cam Cameron...

 

 

Like many others, you seem to think this team is worse than it was last year. I don't minimize the problems they face, but I can't help but think, rationally, that they will be better. Because:

 

1) the switch to the 3/4 defense, with the new players they have drafted and brought in, promises to make them stronger against the run. They already have a strong secondary. Goodbye to the Tampa 2.

 

2) Last season the team as a whole, and especially the o-line, suffered an inordinate number of injuries. They have a new conditioning coach, and even if they did not I think the law of averages says they would not see so many players lost to injury this year.

 

3) the o-line last year was actually decent in run blocking; they averaged 4.3 yards per carry, and this despite the "popgun" passing game that scared nobody. If they stay healthy and the young players develop, I think they will overall do better. Not great, but better. Better enough to make a difference in offensive efficiency.

 

4) Add to this the change in coaching staff. The Bills offensive coaching under Jauron was very bad, and last season was the worst for that. I expect Gailey to do better. It would be hard for the passing offense to be worse.

 

5) Despite the team's awful play last year, the Bills split with New York and Miami last season, played the Jets close in the other game, and played New England close in both games.

 

6) many times last season they led games going into the last quarter, only to lose. Mostly because the defense was not big enough to get off the field--how many times did we painfully watch other teams grind out long drives, converting third downs one after another. And the offense could not sustain drives. Given the changes already listed, why should they do WORSE this season than last?

 

7) I cannot understand on what basis "NFL experts" call for the Bills to win only 2-4 games. When the schedule is weaker on paper. They, like you, can only look at the LT and the QB and assume that because they have not new or impressive names in those positions, the entire season is lost. I just do not agree.

[PDaDdy]

damn! Timmy took out some Leonidas frustration on ol Trentative! good to see the national media calling players out, even if we've all known it for a while.

 

 

Since Spiller is labeled as his "sidekick", what's his super-hero nickname going to be??

 

 

In a nod to "Smallville" and of course the Buffalo Bills I'm going with the "Red Blue Blur" and if anything Trent would be lucky to be Spillers' sidekick.

[Zona]

Now that one crosses the line into hyperbole, IMO, but I'll check.

 

And don't take this as me defending Edwards, please. He lost his job to Fitz on merit -- and considering that when RF was signed, most of us figured it was expressly because he WOULDN'T pose a threat to TE, that's not good.

 

I don't have that link open anymore. Tim (or Williamson) did say two 40+ throws for the year, correct? (Hmmm, that's setting the bar an inch above sea level for Brohm. Maybe you're right after all. Be right back.)

 

------------------------------------------------------

OK. This link might be password-protected; lemme know if it is: http://www.nflgsis.com/2009/Reg/16/54692/PlayStats.pdf

 

Brohm was 17-of-29 in that game. Interestingly, only four of those passes traveled over 10 yards past the line of scrimmage: 47-yd INT, 32 and 19-yd incompletions, and a 14-yd completion to Evans (who added 1 YAC). On the other hand, nine of his passes were targeted at or behind the LOS.

 

So, one game, one 40+ (to the wrong team) and a bunch of dumpoffs for Brohm. The contrast with TE might have been more apparent with Fitz. Still and all, I'm in the camp that's curious to see how Brohm does with a full training camp.

 

To be honest, Edwards too, in a different system. I'm not ready to absolve Jauron of responsibility for last season's cluster.....

 

 

I was very interested to read Tim's Article, and compare it to what Chris Brown wrote in his piece on BB.com. Chris Brown quotes Brohm saying about his start against the Falcons "“The biggest thing I took away from it is that I can play at this level,” he said. “I felt like I did the job they asked me to do. We had a real basic game plan. They didn’t ask me to do a whole lot of things. We tried to keep it close, not make many mistakes and just do my job."

 

So my question has been, and still remains. Did TE checkdown all the time because he was told to by the coaches? You know, run the pop-warner, capgun offense and thats it....or is Edwards Broken? Gailey may be able to save him, or he may not. But the offense was just so pathetic under Jauron that its hard to tell.

[Billy in 4C]

"The Elias Sports Bureau tracks every play, and it credited Edwards with only two pass attempts that traveled more than 40 yards in the air and 21 that traveled farther than 20 yards. "

 

 

Wow. Seriously. I didn't think this was even possible for a Pro team.

 

 

 

We threw downfield more on my highschool team...

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't have any idea where you can possibly think the O line to be vastly improved, you are talking about the Bills O line right?

 

Every player on last years line stunk it up, EVERY PLAYER! Even when they were healthy they still graded out as some of the worst in the NFL. If you watched them game after game and noticed they couldn't pass block very well at all, both tackle positions caved in with almost every play.

 

Without clear upgrades at either tackle position I see a repeat of last seasons performances. Lets not forget that Gailey didn't hire just experienced NFL coaches, he hired a bunch of college coaches who need to learn how to coach in the NFL.

 

 

My point about pulling a Dolphin is that like Cam Cameron who passed on a QB and linemen to take what he thought would be an "exciting player" for the offense in Ted Ginn Jr. Gailey might have done the same thing with Spiller and it may come back to haunt him.

 

BTW, I was being generous with 4 wins, I honestly believe that with no upgrades at tackle, WR, QB and totally revamped defensive and offensive schemes, the Bills could very well be playing for that #1 overall this year.

 

I'm not drinking the Nix / Gailey old boy connection koolaid just yet...

 

 

So if you think 4 wins is generous, take my bet. It's easy money. You get $50 for 4 wins or less. So are you in?

 

And comparing Spiller to Ginn is insane. Ginn was a soft player who never excelled at his position. He was a ginat reach. Spiller was considered the best offensive player in draft, is physical, and was a considered a top 10 pick the moment the college season ended.

[cåblelady]

I love me some bash TE threads.

[C.Biscuit97]

Personally where a guy is drafted doesn't matter "too" much to me. The point is can he do the job or not. IMO Edwards can't. I guess your point perhaps is that he wasn't drafted to be the franchise but he was thrust into that roll because JP failed. Regardless of how he got there individually he has not been effective for any significant length of time.

 

Also IMO, Losman did not fail to the extent that people think. YES, he did fail before anyone tries to revive the even more tired Losman vs Edwards argument. LOL. I truly think Trent getting the start was more of a function of the new coach new QB phenomena we see. Edwards still has yet to top JP's individual numbers. Yes I know Cpt Checkdown excelled at completing passes behind the line of scrimmage and bolstering his completetion percentage but defenses packed it in on our offense once rubber arm proved he coudln't/wouldn't go deep and the running game suffered with Edwards at the helm. Edwards also didn't throw TDs that put points on the board.

 

 

Yeah, I obviously don't want to get into the whole tired Losman-Edwars thing. They both aren't good enough. But the team did win more with Edwards under center, by a significant margain. And Edwards' #s will be skewed because he can't stay healthy, which is why you can never count on him as a franchise QB.

 

IMO, Edwards could be a great backup and occasional starter in this league.