California students sent home for wearing inappropriate shirts

[swede316]

As one comment said...An AMERICAN SCHOOL, ON AMERICAN SOIL, PAID FOR BY AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS...If I remember correctly...that counts for something. Maybe the lil Mexican flags shoulda been sent home?

[whateverdude]

Did the article mention how embarrassing it is to dress in the Mexican flag? can we stop calling mexico a country already and call it what it is, a collection of villages, towns, and cities run by drug cartels.

[Magox]

What axe would Navarette have to grind?

Really? Well lets see here, Ruben Navarette is a Mexican American, who lives in San Diego who has a history of writing pieces of journalism propagating "anti-immigrant", "racist" behavior of some of those that oppose illegal immigration. If that isn't enough?

 

Just look at the absurd characterizations, referring them as "mischievous", "brats" and "out of control". Why? Because they decided to wear T-shirts of the American flag, even though school officials implored students not to do so? If they were trying to make a political statement, right or wrong, it's their right to do so, despite school officials wishes. That is where the school !@#$ed up, this is a public school, and I believe they don't have the authority to tell their students to not be able to express their first amend rights of freedom of speech, as long as it fits "proper" moral decorum.

 

The school was wrong, and I think that's pretty much been established and agreed upon amongst reasonable thinking people, however, I've said this before, the kids knew that they were going to get some lash back amongst their peers, and to an extent rightfully so. However, that's another matter, and that isn't what we are talking about here.

 

But there is no rational basis, derived from facts for him to characterize these kids with the adjectives that he described them with.

 

Just because the kids defied the school on a matter that is supported by the law for their side doesn't mean they are "mischievous", "brats" and "out of control". Maybe they really are brats, maybe they are trouble makers, but based on what Navarette or other news outlets opinions regarding this subject, you can't reasonably come to that conclusion, unless you have an agenda.

[IDBillzFan]

Just because the kids defied the school on a matter that is supported by the law for their side doesn't mean they are "mischievous", "brats" and "out of control". Maybe they really are brats, maybe they are trouble makers, but based on what Navarette or other news outlets opinions are regarding this subject, you can't reasonably come to that conclusion, unless you have an agenda.

This is the thing that made the article so ridiculous; he kept calling the kids "brats" and "out of control," and he says this becomes more true as more info is out.

 

Finally, now that more details have surfaced, it looks like the boys have, all along, been acting like brats. While it’s true that it is not the school district’s policy to ask students to remove patriotic clothing, and Rodriguez is in hot water, it is also true that administrators at Live Oak High School asked students beforehand not to wear flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo – any flags, of the United States, Mexico or Estonia. That’s because there had been tensions last year, according to what a Morgan Hill school board trustee told The Associated Press.

 

So let me get this right. The school suggest that students don't wear flags to school because there were tensions last year, the kids wear flags to school, and THIS defines acting like brats "all along" and "out of control?"

 

Really? Which school board trustee? What were the circumstances surrounding the "tenions last year" that prompted the school to make the no-flag suggestion this year? Did they also decide to remove all flags as well? I mean, if a flag on a shirt created tension, a flag on pole must be downright, ummm, incendiary, no?

 

An entire article based on a comment from an unnamed trustee in reference to year-old unexplained tensions. Not to mention, an entire year passes, the best the school can come up with is "no one wear a flag day," and this all means the kids are brats?

 

Nope. Nothing pointless about that article. Not a thing. I look forward to his next article: When You're A Border Rancher In Arizona, Aren't You Really Just Asking To Get Killed?

[el Tigre]

Really? Well lets see here, Ruben Navarette is a Mexican American, who lives in San Diego who has a history of writing pieces of journalism propagating "anti-immigrant", "racist" behavior of some of those that oppose illegal immigration.

 

Just look at the absurd characterizations, referring them as "mischievous", "brats" and "out of control". Why? Because they decided to wear T-shirts of the American flag, even though school officials implored students not to do so? If they were trying to make a political statement, right or wrong, it's their right to do so, despite school officials wishes. That is where the school !@#$ed up, this is a public school, and I believe they don't have the authority to tell their students to not be able to express their first amend rights of freedom of speech, as long as it fits "proper" moral decorum.

 

The school was wrong, and I think that's pretty much been established and agreed upon amongst reasonable thinking people, however, I've said this before, the kids knew that they were going to get some lash back amongst their peers, and to an extent rightfully so. However, that's another matter, and that isn't what we are talking about here.

 

But there is no rational basis, derived from facts for him to characterize these kids with the adjectives that he described them with.

 

Just because the kids defied the school on a matter that is supported by the law for their side doesn't mean they are "mischievous", "brats" and "out of control". Maybe they really are brats, maybe they are trouble makers, but based on what Navarette or other news outlets opinions regarding this subject, you can't reasonably come to that conclusion, unless you have an agenda.

Some of the loudest voices in the discussion of illegal immigration ARE racist. Navarette calls them out on it. Just because they may be right on SOME issues of the immigration debate doesn't mean that some of these loud mouth,right wing cats aren't racist. You may not agree with Navarette but you can't just discredit him by saying "he has an axe to grind". He's very close to,and educated on this issue. His views don't fit neatly into the liberal or conservative camps and that gives guys like you a headache

I've read several articles and watched a few video clips about this incident and I've come to the same conclusions as Navarette. These kids were looking to make trouble and thought by doing it the way they did,it would make them bullet-proof. School officials first obligation is to keep the school a safe place to learn,that's all they were trying to do. If you really think all reasonable people agree with your view,you're either very close minded or hang with a crowd that lacks any kind of diversity.

[RkFast]

Some of the loudest voices in the discussion of illegal immigration ARE racist. Navarette calls them out on it. Just because they may be right on SOME issues of the immigration debate doesn't mean that some of these loud mouth,right wing cats aren't racist. You may not agree with Navarette but you can't just discredit him by saying "he has an axe to grind". He's very close to,and educated on this issue. His views don't fit neatly into the liberal or conservative camps and that gives guys like you a headache

I've read several articles and watched a few video clips about this incident and I've come to the same conclusions as Navarette. These kids were looking to make trouble and thought by doing it the way they did,it would make them bullet-proof. School officials first obligation is to keep the school a safe place to learn,that's all they were trying to do. If you really think all reasonable people agree with your view,you're either very close minded or hang with a crowd that lacks any kind of diversity.

 

How is it that one batch of kids wearing flag shirts are showing "pride" but another group of kids wearing different flag shirts are "making trouble?"

 

Is it that by wearing "different" shirts than the main group, these kids are somehow "bad?" That would contradict your little lecture on "diversity", wouldnt it? I would think that a "diversity-minded" group of folks would WELCOME different flags and cultures coming together.

[PushthePile]

Some of the loudest voices in the discussion of illegal immigration ARE racist. Navarette calls them out on it. Just because they may be right on SOME issues of the immigration debate doesn't mean that some of these loud mouth,right wing cats aren't racist. You may not agree with Navarette but you can't just discredit him by saying "he has an axe to grind". He's very close to,and educated on this issue. His views don't fit neatly into the liberal or conservative camps and that gives guys like you a headache

I've read several articles and watched a few video clips about this incident and I've come to the same conclusions as Navarette. These kids were looking to make trouble and thought by doing it the way they did,it would make them bullet-proof. School officials first obligation is to keep the school a safe place to learn,that's all they were trying to do. If you really think all reasonable people agree with your view,you're either very close minded or hang with a crowd that lacks any kind of diversity.

You sound like you have an axe to grind, just like Navarette. The two of you can't resist the urge to combine conservatives and racism, and his article reads like a misguided PPP post. I have no problem with him giving an opinion but the namecalling is amateur. IMO, it's a brutal article.

 

The other thing I found interesting was the discrepancy between the two articles. The first article stated that around 100 students came to school in mexican colors and had flags painted on their faces and arms. Navarette's article pointed out that faculty asked students not to wear any flags, specifically mentioning the American flag and Mexican flag. Navarette makes a big stink about how the "brats" broke the rules and disobeyed the wishes of the faculty but it seems to this outside viewer that alot of other students also broke the rules, according to Navarette's perspective.

[Kevin]

Well, we have finally reached a point when the American Flag is a "racist" symbol. People seem to forget that this country was founded by "immigrants", and the stars and stripes represent that. This whole thing is blown way out of proportion. No one complained when people wore the American flag on St. Patricks Day did they? Hell, I don't think anybody cared. I am sure someone wore a American flag shirt during Black History Month, and did anyone get offended? Probably not. At least no media outlet cared enough to publish a story about it.

 

So we come to Cinco de Mayo and all of the sudden it is a "racist" idea to wear an American flag to school. Why? The issue isn't illegal immigration. It is the Mexican Independence Day, right? Mexican's should have the right to celebrate it, right? It is just as much a part of their heritage as July 4th is to ours right?

 

Why would it be offensive to anyone if someone flew an American flag on Mexico's independence day? I have never heard someone complain about someone flying a Mexican flag on July 4th?

 

To me, both sides are wrong. The right side for making a big issue out of this. The left, for sending the students home, and flying the racist card, again.

 

The solution is simple to me. If hispanic students are offended, then guess what, send all of them home and have them dress appropriately for school. Give em uniforms, take away their sense of individuality, and make them all look the same. It isn't the right thing to do, but it would curb further "offenses" of clothing. Or, you could do the right thing, and have everyone be proud of their heritage, and show it, and everyone else can simply respect it. But unfortunately that is asking too much.

[IDBillzFan]

So we come to Cinco de Mayo and all of the sudden it is a "racist" idea to wear an American flag to school. Why? The issue isn't illegal immigration. It is the Mexican Independence Day, right? Mexican's should have the right to celebrate it, right? It is just as much a part of their heritage as July 4th is to ours right?

Actually, Cinco de Mayo is not Mexican Independence Day. In fact, Cinco de Mayo is probably celebrated more in the US than it is in Mexico. Because as a country, the US will never, ever pass up an opportunity to drink booze. That's why we love St. Patrick's Day, the Super Bowl, New Years Eve or Jimmy Buffett concerts. Cinco de Mayo is a just another reason to drink.

 

What a bunch of pussies. I never need a reason to drink. Hell, I don't even need company. In fact, I prefer to drink alone.

[Magox]

Some of the loudest voices in the discussion of illegal immigration ARE racist. Navarette calls them out on it. Just because they may be right on SOME issues of the immigration debate doesn't mean that some of these loud mouth,right wing cats aren't racist. You may not agree with Navarette but you can't just discredit him by saying "he has an axe to grind". He's very close to,and educated on this issue. His views don't fit neatly into the liberal or conservative camps and that gives guys like you a headache

I've read several articles and watched a few video clips about this incident and I've come to the same conclusions as Navarette. These kids were looking to make trouble and thought by doing it the way they did,it would make them bullet-proof. School officials first obligation is to keep the school a safe place to learn,that's all they were trying to do. If you really think all reasonable people agree with your view,you're either very close minded or hang with a crowd that lacks any kind of diversity.

If you can't recognize that his heritage, the region he lives in, and his past pieces of journalism regarding this topic as a supporting argument of him having a predetermined biased view, then I don't know what to tell you....

 

You know that if he would of tangibly observed or heard something that supported his claim that those kids were acting in the manner that he described, that it would of been mentioned in that article, so let's forget about his overview for a second, and please give me a specific example in how he came to the conclusion that those kids were behaving in an "out of control" or "mischievous" manner.

[Fastback]

Some of the loudest voices in the discussion of illegal immigration ARE racist. Navarette calls them out on it. Just because they may be right on SOME issues of the immigration debate doesn't mean that some of these loud mouth,right wing cats aren't racist. You may not agree with Navarette but you can't just discredit him by saying "he has an axe to grind". He's very close to,and educated on this issue. His views don't fit neatly into the liberal or conservative camps and that gives guys like you a headache

I've read several articles and watched a few video clips about this incident and I've come to the same conclusions as Navarette. These kids were looking to make trouble and thought by doing it the way they did,it would make them bullet-proof. School officials first obligation is to keep the school a safe place to learn,that's all they were trying to do. If you really think all reasonable people agree with your view,you're either very close minded or hang with a crowd that lacks any kind of diversity.

 

Nice try Tiger. I live in San Diego and subscribe to the UT. Navarette is a leftist hack. Yes, sunshine, he DOES have an axe to grind. Seriously, why are you trying to defend him?

 

While I'm sure some people who oppose illegal immigration are racists, guess what Tiger? It's still illegal! It is inconsequential if they are racist and that is the base of their opinion. We are a nation of LAWS, NOT MEN.

 

My wife is a naturalized citizen from Honduras. She emigrated here legally when she was 14. She is staunchly opposed to illegal immigration also. Want to know why? Because she has principles. We have tried repeatedly to get her father (who still lives there) a visitors visa and he has repeatedly been denied. And save the excuses, he has nothing in his past to prevent him from getting a visa. This is largely because of the flow of illegals coming here. But she (we) will not consider breaking laws to get him here. The sooner we fix this mess of a system, the sooner good people can come here the way the system is designed.

 

If we don't protect our borders, language and culture, we're doomed...

[el Tigre]

If you can't recognize that his heritage, the region he lives in, and his past pieces of journalism regarding this topic as a supporting argument of him having a predetermined biased view, then I don't know what to tell you....

 

You know that if he would of tangibly observed or heard something that supported his claim that those kids were acting in the manner that he described, that it would of been mentioned in that article, so let's forget about his overview for a second, and please give me a specific example in how he came to the conclusion that those kids were behaving in an "out of control" or "mischievous" manner.

His heritage or location are no reason to judge Navarette. His past journalism is,and you probly know that he points out the hypocrisy of the illegal immigration debate. The way the immigrant is targeted because he's an easy mark. Meanwhile the employers who lure them are free to go on exploiting illegals,at substandard wages,because they pay for the politicians.But back to THIS subject....You've probly read and watched as much as I have about this incident and if you can't see that these kids were trying to stir up some racial trouble...then,to steal your quote,I don't know what to tell you. Do you really think they all just happened to wear their flag clothes on Cinqo de Mayo? Come on. These kids knew what they were doing. They wanted to start some trouble,make as big an issue as possible, and get some attention,all the while hiding behind the flag. If a group of Latino kids,with chips on their sholders, did the same on July 4th,I wouldn't be upset if they were sent home. Even if one of them was my kid.

[el Tigre]

Nice try Tiger. I live in San Diego and subscribe to the UT. Navarette is a leftist hack. Yes, sunshine, he DOES have an axe to grind. Seriously, why are you trying to defend him?

 

While I'm sure some people who oppose illegal immigration are racists, guess what Tiger? It's still illegal! It is inconsequential if they are racist and that is the base of their opinion. We are a nation of LAWS, NOT MEN.

 

My wife is a naturalized citizen from Honduras. She emigrated here legally when she was 14. She is staunchly opposed to illegal immigration also. Want to know why? Because she has principles. We have tried repeatedly to get her father (who still lives there) a visitors visa and he has repeatedly been denied. And save the excuses, he has nothing in his past to prevent him from getting a visa. This is largely because of the flow of illegals coming here. But she (we) will not consider breaking laws to get him here. The sooner we fix this mess of a system, the sooner good people can come here the way the system is designed.

 

If we don't protect our borders, language and culture, we're doomed...

Leftist hack??? I don't subscribe to the UT,but I've read quite a bit of his stuff as our local paper carries him. He takes a liberal lean on some things but is pretty conservative on others. He's been very critical,at different times,of both Republicans and Democrats. I've never viewed him as a leftist,but maybe you've read more of him than I have. My mother,as well as other family members came here from Venezuela,legally. So I know what you speak of as far as immigration policy goes. You are right,the system (or lack there of) is a mess,and needs to be fixed. My family tends to look at illegals as line cutters. While some try to do the right thing and wait their turn,others are breaking the law,cutting in front and making it harder for the law abiders to get in. But it won't be stopped until the employers hiring illegals are dealt with. To crack on the immigrant is the easy part,but it's only half of the equation. Get a reliable national ID system and stiff penalties for employers hiring illegals,and the flow of illegals is cut to a trickle. The hypocrisy and grandstanding of the politicians on this issue,by both parties,is sickening.

[IDBillzFan]

Do you really think they all just happened to wear their flag clothes on Cinqo de Mayo? Come on. These kids knew what they were doing. They wanted to start some trouble,make as big an issue as possible, and get some attention,all the while hiding behind the flag. If a group of Latino kids,with chips on their sholders, did the same on July 4th,I wouldn't be upset if they were sent home. Even if one of them was my kid.

See, this is where you and Navarette miss the point. You're so sure that the main problem here are five kids who wore the American flag that you wouldn't even be upset if some Latino students were sent home for wearing the Mexican flag on July 4th. That's just assinine because what you fail to see is that even IF the five kids did this on purpose to raise a little hell, they came out of it looking a whole lot smarter than the school official who sent them home.

 

Y'see, Navarette makes a leap of faith in his story that he expects the weak-minded to miss in hopes that his point is undeniable. He starts with "it is also true that administrators at Live Oak High School asked students beforehand not to wear flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo" just before he starts to rant "The important thing to remember is that these five boys openly defied school authorities not once but twice. It’s obvious they wore the T-shirts to stick their fingers in the eyes of Mexican-American students and mock an ethnic celebration that they didn’t feel had anything to do with them. They did this despite being told to practice restraint by administrators.

 

Then, later, he adds "When I was in high school, and an administrator told me to do something or not to do something, I complied."

 

Which one is it? Where they asked or were they told? To Navarette, he HAS to make that leap of faith or his story falls apart.

 

So why didn't Navarette ask school officials how that request was made? Was it during an assembly, where everyone had a chance to discuss why they were making this request? Was it just a note sent home to parents? Was there an open dialogue to discuss why there were tensions last year? To unfortunately use a phrase that I have come to hate, did the school miss a great "teaching moment?" Why didn't the school address the REASON there tensions last year instead of simply trying to AVOID them this year?

 

But no. Let's call the kids brats. Because that advances the dialogue.

[Mr. Dink]

See, this is where you and Navarette miss the point. You're so sure that the main problem here are five kids who wore the American flag that you wouldn't even be upset if some Latino students were sent home for wearing the Mexican flag on July 4th. That's just assinine because what you fail to see is that even IF the five kids did this on purpose to raise a little hell, they came out of it looking a whole lot smarter than the school official who sent them home.

 

Y'see, Navarette makes a leap of faith in his story that he expects the weak-minded to miss in hopes that his point is undeniable. He starts with "it is also true that administrators at Live Oak High School asked students beforehand not to wear flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo" just before he starts to rant "The important thing to remember is that these five boys openly defied school authorities not once but twice. It’s obvious they wore the T-shirts to stick their fingers in the eyes of Mexican-American students and mock an ethnic celebration that they didn’t feel had anything to do with them. They did this despite being told to practice restraint by administrators.

 

Then, later, he adds "When I was in high school, and an administrator told me to do something or not to do something, I complied."

 

Which one is it? Where they asked or were they told? To Navarette, he HAS to make that leap of faith or his story falls apart.

 

So why didn't Navarette ask school officials how that request was made? Was it during an assembly, where everyone had a chance to discuss why they were making this request? Was it just a note sent home to parents? Was there an open dialogue to discuss why there were tensions last year? To unfortunately use a phrase that I have come to hate, did the school miss a great "teaching moment?" Why didn't the school address the REASON there tensions last year instead of simply trying to AVOID them this year?

 

But no. Let's call the kids brats. Because that advances the dialogue.

Wow.