I'm Bored: Bills' positional power ranking 2010

[Matt in KC]

1. DB's - Rank between 6-10 I'd say. But, I'm not sure our LBs will be in the right place for pass coverage this year, so we'll probably end up middle-of-the-pack for pass D yards.

2. RB's - Rank somewhere between 5-10 if Spiller can pick up the blitz and is strong enough to power through NFL arm tackles in his first year.

3. DL - Rank between 10 -15

4. LB's - Rank between 25 - 32

5. TE's - Rank between 20-25 - I think they are a good group of pass-catching TEs on a team that will need them to block.

6. OL - Rank between 25 - 30 I doubt we're dead last, but this is a project at best.

7. WR - Rank between 20-25 - Lee Evans, Spiller, Fred jackson and pass-catching TEs keep this group out of the cellar stats-wise.

8. QB - Rank between 25 - 30 - I'm very intersted to see if they bottom out, or if our backup-QB-of-the-future is on the roster yet. I'm convinced we seek a franchise QB next off-season barring a miracle.

[Tommy]

Buffalo's pass D was ranked #2 in the league last year and only the Saints had more interceptions. I can't see how the Bills would rank out of the top 5 in the secondary. Hence, why we didn't draft a single corner or safety.

 

Those kinds of stats can be a little misleading. Our rush defense was poor, so teams were able to run over us. Given that though, I'm certainly not disagreeing that we have a great secondary. I'd say they're more like top 10 in the league. I'd really like to see how our safties play this year, especially Byrd. I loved him as a rookie, but I'd like to see him improve on his tackling and become more of a complete player. Let's hope he can continue his ballhawking ability as well. Our corners are pretty solid, and the secondary talent is definitely there....I would just like to see consistent and extremely solid overall secondary play for at least another season before annointing them top 5 in the league.

[LongLiveRalph]

Problem with your little theory, Trent doesn't throw checkdowns over the middle, only to the sideline where the backs normally are. I am not saying our TEs are top 20, but I am saying that this board seriously derails them as the TE position is nearly the least of our worries on offense.

 

I hear yah. But let's be real, the tight end position is far from a strength. They struggle to get open and make plays.

 

The top 20 pass catching TE's in the NFL in 2009, and their draft position:

 

1. Dallas Clark- 1st rd (24)

2. Jason Witten- 3rd rd (69)

3. Tony Gonzalez- 1st rd (13)

4. Antonio Gates- (undrafted, didn't play college football)

5. Vernon Davis- 1st rd (6)

6. Kellen Winslow- 1st rd (6)

7. Brent Celek- 5th rd (162)

8. Heath Miller- 1st rd (30)

9. Zach Miller- 2nd rd (38)

10. Gregg Olson- 1st rd (31)

11. Visanthe Shiancoe- 3rd rd (91)

12. Jermichael Finley- 3rd rd (91)

13. Todd Heap- 1st rd (32)

14. John Carlson- 2nd rd (38)

15. Fred Davis- 2nd rd (48)

16. Jeremy Shockey- 1st rd (14)

17. Dustin Keller- 1st rd (30)

18. Bo Scaife- 6th rd (179)

19. Kevin Boss- 5th rd (153)

20. Owen Daniels- 4th rd (98)

 

Of the top-20, there are nine 1st round picks, three 2nd round picks, three 3rd round picks, and then a 4th, two 5ths, a 6th, and an undrafted FA. All of those players had at least 40 catches in 2009.

 

The Bills, who have had lack of presence at tight end for years, have on their roster:

 

87 Klopfenstein, Joe TE 6-5 262 26 4 Colorado (Rd 2 pick 46 by the Rams in '06, waived in '09)

82 Matthews, Michael TE 6-4 270 26 4 Georgia Tech (undrafted)

89 Nelson, Shawn TE 6-5 240 24 2 Southern Mississippi (Rd 4 pick 121 by Bills in '09)

80 Schouman, Derek TE 6-2 223 25 3 Boise State (Rd 7 pick 222 by Bills in '07)

88 Stupar, Jonathan TE 6-3 254 25 2 Virginia (undrafted)

 

The Bills drafting TE's since 2002:

 

2009- Shawn Nelson- 4th (121)

2008- Derek Fine- 4th (132)

2007- Derek Schouman- 7th (222) (He was listed as a FB in college)

2005- Kevin Everett- 3rd (86)

2004- Tim Euhus- 4th (109)

 

That's it. Everett may get a pass because he suffered a knee injury in his first camp, and obviously had his career end in tragic fashion....but before the neck injury there were whispers of his failed potential.

 

When you look at the major producers in the league, it takes generally a high pick to fill the void. Based on that list above, you could say definitely top-70 and more likely a top-50 pick to get an elite TE. Jeremey Shockey made tight ends valuable like Polumalu made safeties valuable. It changes your whole scheme when you have a top-line player in those spots, and creates match-up nightmares. That's why these players are coveted.

 

The Bills seem to want to continue to fill this never-ending void with low-round picks and undrafted FA's. They shouldn't be surprised when their tight end catches 17 balls. Neither should the fans.

[nonprophet]

I would go:

...

8. QB- Not worth getting into.

Don't worry; I hear Spiller is so fast that he can throw the ball to himself.

[JPicc2114]

I hear yah. But let's be real, the tight end position is far from a strength. They struggle to get open and make plays.

 

The top 20 pass catching TE's in the NFL in 2009, and their draft position:

 

1. Dallas Clark- 1st rd (24)

2. Jason Witten- 3rd rd (69)

3. Tony Gonzalez- 1st rd (13)

4. Antonio Gates- (undrafted, didn't play college football)

5. Vernon Davis- 1st rd (6)

6. Kellen Winslow- 1st rd (6)

7. Brent Celek- 5th rd (162)

8. Heath Miller- 1st rd (30)

9. Zach Miller- 2nd rd (38)

10. Gregg Olson- 1st rd (31)

11. Visanthe Shiancoe- 3rd rd (91)

12. Jermichael Finley- 3rd rd (91)

13. Todd Heap- 1st rd (32)

14. John Carlson- 2nd rd (38)

15. Fred Davis- 2nd rd (48)

16. Jeremy Shockey- 1st rd (14)

17. Dustin Keller- 1st rd (30)

18. Bo Scaife- 6th rd (179)

19. Kevin Boss- 5th rd (153)

20. Owen Daniels- 4th rd (98)

 

Of the top-20, there are nine 1st round picks, three 2nd round picks, three 3rd round picks, and then a 4th, two 5ths, a 6th, and an undrafted FA. All of those players had at least 40 catches in 2009.

 

The Bills, who have had lack of presence at tight end for years, have on their roster:

 

87 Klopfenstein, Joe TE 6-5 262 26 4 Colorado (Rd 2 pick 46 by the Rams in '06, waived in '09)

82 Matthews, Michael TE 6-4 270 26 4 Georgia Tech (undrafted)

89 Nelson, Shawn TE 6-5 240 24 2 Southern Mississippi (Rd 4 pick 121 by Bills in '09)

80 Schouman, Derek TE 6-2 223 25 3 Boise State (Rd 7 pick 222 by Bills in '07)

88 Stupar, Jonathan TE 6-3 254 25 2 Virginia (undrafted)

 

The Bills drafting TE's since 2002:

 

2009- Shawn Nelson- 4th (121)

2008- Derek Fine- 4th (132)

2007- Derek Schouman- 7th (222) (He was listed as a FB in college)

2005- Kevin Everett- 3rd (86)

2004- Tim Euhus- 4th (109)

 

That's it. Everett may get a pass because he suffered a knee injury in his first camp, and obviously had his career end in tragic fashion....but before the neck injury there were whispers of his failed potential.

 

When you look at the major producers in the league, it takes generally a high pick to fill the void. Based on that list above, you could say definitely top-70 and more likely a top-50 pick to get an elite TE. Jeremey Shockey made tight ends valuable like Polumalu made safeties valuable. It changes your whole scheme when you have a top-line player in those spots, and creates match-up nightmares. That's why these players are coveted.

 

The Bills seem to want to continue to fill this never-ending void with low-round picks and undrafted FA's. They shouldn't be surprised when their tight end catches 17 balls. Neither should the fans.

 

 

 

Sorry dude I dont buy it. Antonio Gates was freakin undrafted and he was one of the best TE's in the game.

[Bruuuuce]

I am really intrigued to see how the receiving core does this year. I really think Steve Johnson and Shaun Nelson will emerge as the reliable targets on this team this year, and Johnson will lead the WRs in receptions. If Evans is used correctly and is allowed to run across the hash marks, not with them it will make the passing game much better. Am excited to see Hardy play healthy and develop. Spiller is going to get a lot of receptions coming out of the backfield as well.

[LongLiveRalph]

Sorry dude I dont buy it. Antonio Gates was freakin undrafted and he was one of the best TE's in the game.

 

Not sure if you're being serious or not, but if you were, way to pick the one guy out of 20 who wasn't a high draft choice in order to claim that you can get a solid tight end on any street corner...

 

Gates was 1st team All State in high school in football and basketball. He had a football scholarship from Nick Saban to play at Michigan State, but Saban wouldn't allow him to play basketball also. He wanted to play both...So he dropped out of MSU after one semester, went to Eastern Michigan, bounced to a few JC's, and then settled at Kent State where he was an excellent hoops player.

 

Immediately after basketball he starting training for football and got tryouts with several teams, mainly based on his exposure in basketball of leading Kent State to the Elite 8. He is so athletic, he was able to contribute as a pass catcher his rookie season, catching 24 balls for 389 yards. He worked the whole offseason to become a full-time tight end, and his career has exploded from there.

 

If he played football in college he would've been an early-round pick, no doubt. NFL teams saw potential in his athleticism but were skeptical because he was 6'4" and in basketball shape, meaning he needed to add some pounds. Some teams saw him as a "tweener", including the Bills probably.

[BobChalmers]

Cowboys, Packers, Ravens, Jets, Steelers, and Colts all have better secondaries in my opinion. Buffalo is top half of the league, but I wouldn't say top 5. Running Backs on the other hand, You STACKED

 

I would definitely not put the Colts or Ravens DB's ahead of the Bills.

 

I'd have to think about the others.

[billsfan89]

We have a Defense that can defend the pass without a doubt. Now we bulked up our Front 7 both in free agency and the draft to better convert to a 3-4 and stuff the run. So our front 7 should be decent at stopping the run but even if Schobel comes back our pass rush is suspect. However even if our pass rush ranks 18-22 and our run D ranks 16-18th our D will be good because our secondary is top 5-7 at least.

 

I think that the offense is one that has good running backs and then that's about it. As far as skill position players go I think that after Lee Evans there isn't much. Nelson has potential but I think that he is a year away from being a factor. Steve Johnson and James Hardy have potential but do you think that either one can step up and be a number 2 receiver?

 

The O-line has Wood and Levitre who should be lock solid guards for a long time. Handy is a decent Center, Green a mediocre RT, but at LT we don't have much. To me the line isn't going to be that much better then it was last season. We still don't have a LT and our RT and C are average at best.

 

QB we all know we don't have much at QB. Fitz is a good backup

[playman]

one can argue that there are better secondarys in the league. but none better that young. top 5

 

LBs average. and that only if maybin/ellis can play rush OLB

 

DL ..... hmmm....im hoping for the best. if our picks pan out were solid

 

OL well below average. good young interiors though. if we can find OTs who can play were solid

 

TE below average. nelson needs to step up. if he does were ok

 

WR incomplete. ok, lee can stretch Ds if someone can get him the ball. but other than that we just dont know. or at least i ^^

 

RB top 5. period

 

QB fail. as of now. im pretty sure passing on a qb this last draft is part of the master-plan. next years class is alot better, and a top 5 pick will make sure we get a franchise QB. if for some reason we wont pick that early next year then chan will have made the most out of one of the current guys and we wont need a new gun.

[Rob's House]

LB could be a pleasant surprise. W/ Kawika Mitchell, Andra Davis, and Poz, the MLB position, while not dominant should be at least adequate. OLB is a little less certain, but if Maybin can take advantage of his speed on the outside, if Schobel stays, or if one of the young promising guys from the draft can produce, that could be tough for opposing offenses to deal with.

 

If you try to run, you've got a mass of humanity in front of you, and if you pass you've got speed rushers coming from either end. With some creative play calling we could give QBs nightmares.

[Ball'n]

I hear yah. But let's be real, the tight end position is far from a strength. They struggle to get open and make plays.

I am not saying they are a strength as much as I am saying our OL/WR/QB's have been pretty bad, so while it is obvious RB is a strength, I'd go as far to say TE's would be the second strongest offensive position on the Bill's offense, which of course isn't saying much. I'd rank our TE's from 20-25ish in the league. No way are they 30-32 and worse than the OL/WR's like that guy posted, imo.

[3irty1]

one can argue that there are better secondarys in the league. but none better that young.

 

 

Agreed on the Good and Young part. In a couple of years, even by the middle of this season your secondary will be noted.

[SWVABillsFan]

Buffalo's pass D was ranked #2 in the league last year and only the Saints had more interceptions. I can't see how the Bills would rank out of the top 5 in the secondary. Hence, why we didn't draft a single corner or safety.

Because Dick "We need more DB's" Jauron is gone.

[Conch]

I would go:

 

1. DB's- Top 5 in the league

2. RB's- If Spiller is half what he could be and Lynch sucks it up and accepts his role, we should be right there with the Cowboys

3. DL- Really excited about our D-Line

4. LB's- Shakey, but could be solid if Schobel returns. Maybin huge x-factor, obviously.

5. TE's- Could be a sleeper position- more a question of learning how to use them than talent

6. OL- Wood and Levitre should come into their own this year. Wood being 100% may be biggest x-factor on team. Calloway will make the team and provide excellent depth.

7. WR's- Not confident, but extremely intrigued in seeing Hardy and Johnson play all the time. Good thing they didn't dress the second half of last year.

8. QB- Not worth getting into.

 

Just to comment on the LB's - I'd say shaky would be giving them credit. Schobel is old, un-enthused and out of position, Mitchell may not make the team, Davis, Kawaki's replacement is experienced but old, Poz may improve but he is not in the top ten at his position (either ILB or MLB), Ellison is beat more than a dead horse, Maybin? maybin not; LBs as a squad are not very good and everyone except Davis will be learning a new position.

 

The rest of your opinions are also overly optimistic;

 

Our pass D is Top 15 at best and not tested that hard last year due to extremely poor run defense.

 

With Wood and Levitre we have two solid OL players, and 3 that are just not very good.

 

Running game will be average due to less than average line and inept passing offense. Spiller will help the run game to be sure. But that means taking Jackson (or Lynch) out. There are only so many carries so the net effect will be marginal. Jackson can pick up the blitz, can Spiller? Haven't heard anyone call him a good blocker and a back has to do all three as i recall -- run, catch and block.

 

Tight ends -- gimme a break, maybe this squad will suck less than the last years squad but that is a big maybe. What has occurred to believe this position will awake from its ffiteen year slumber? new QB - no, better line - no, new TE targets - no. Everyone likes Nelson because he is new. He will get old and we will harangue him just like we did Royal, Schouman, and the last 50 tight ends this team has had except Pete M & Ernie Warlick.

 

The DL will be young and / or learning new positions and some players are the wrong size for the defense (K Williams, McCargo, Kelsay for example)

[bananathumb]

Forget about the players. the positions I'm interested in are the position coaches:

 

especially QB coach Cortez

 

will these new coaches be able to compete in the AFC East? That is the real question.

[iinii]

Not at all. There are hundreds of other delusional fanboi fools that posts these boards that think the Bills will field a competitive team this year.

Delusional here...

[metzelaars_lives]

Just to comment on the LB's - I'd say shaky would be giving them credit. Schobel is old, un-enthused and out of position, Mitchell may not make the team, Davis, Kawaki's replacement is experienced but old, Poz may improve but he is not in the top ten at his position (either ILB or MLB), Ellison is beat more than a dead horse, Maybin? maybin not; LBs as a squad are not very good and everyone except Davis will be learning a new position.

 

The rest of your opinions are also overly optimistic;

 

Our pass D is Top 15 at best and not tested that hard last year due to extremely poor run defense.

 

With Wood and Levitre we have two solid OL players, and 3 that are just not very good.

 

Running game will be average due to less than average line and inept passing offense. Spiller will help the run game to be sure. But that means taking Jackson (or Lynch) out. There are only so many carries so the net effect will be marginal. Jackson can pick up the blitz, can Spiller? Haven't heard anyone call him a good blocker and a back has to do all three as i recall -- run, catch and block.

 

Tight ends -- gimme a break, maybe this squad will suck less than the last years squad but that is a big maybe. What has occurred to believe this position will awake from its ffiteen year slumber? new QB - no, better line - no, new TE targets - no. Everyone likes Nelson because he is new. He will get old and we will harangue him just like we did Royal, Schouman, and the last 50 tight ends this team has had except Pete M & Ernie Warlick.

 

The DL will be young and / or learning new positions and some players are the wrong size for the defense (K Williams, McCargo, Kelsay for example)

 

Well good morning sunshine...

 

Pass defense top 15 at best? When Drayton Florence is your nickel corner and Donte Whitner is your third safety, I'd say you're in pretty good shape. I think it's a little short-sighted to say that their #2 ranking last year was simply due to the fact that their run defense sucked. Wasn't the opposing QB rating one of the lowest in the league as well? Not to mention, you should have been able to notice that McGee and Florence are terrific in pass coverage and that Byrd, Wilson and McKelvin (see second half '08) are playmakers.

 

As far as the running game, why don't you look up what Fred Jackson's YPC were the last three seasons behind this pathetic line. Either a) the run blocking has not been as bad as you think or b) Fred Jackson is the second coming of Eric Dickerson (the early years). Again, with respect to depth, when Marshawn is your THIRD running back, that has to put you up there in the league. And I'm not so certain that Spiller was drafted with the intent of putting him in a lot of situations where he's going to be forced to pick up blocks. Either a) he's gonna be in a ton of two back sets, b) he's gonna be darting out of the backfield to catch passes or c) he's gonna run the friggin football. I have never once heard an NFL analyst break down Chris Johnson's blocking skills when analyzing his game.

 

Tight Ends- dude we just don't know yet. Robert Royal proved to us that yes, he sucks. Have you ever watched Derek Schouman play and be like, man that guy sucks? No, because the past regime DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO USE THE TIGHT END! Every time I've seen a ball thrown Schouman's way, he's caught it. Nelson could be a big time pass catching tight end, but only time will tell. I'm not saying they're awesome, I said and I quote, "this could be a sleeper position," in other words, it's possible that they could be OK there.

 

D-Line- first off, Kelsay is playing OLB, they already said that. Yes, Kyle Williams is an ideal 4-3 DT, but Dwan Edwards and Eric Carrington are CLASSIC 3-4 DE's. As far as the NT position, I am confident that a fresh rotation of Troup, Williams and maybe even Stroud occasionally, I think they might be OK. Yes, it would be nice to have Casey Hampton, but they don't, so deal with it. I think again, the name of the game on the D-Line is depth and we have a ton of it. Again, when Spencer Johnson is basically your sixth defensive lineman, I think you're in great shape. And McCargo isn't making the team- obviously.

[clearwater cadet]

Just my 2 cents, here is a realistic breakdown.

 

 

 

 

QB -- Awful

 

RB -- Excellent, Top 5 in the league

 

WR -- Good enough, should make the necessary plays

 

TE -- Not that great, still young

 

OL --- Terrible

 

DL --- Will be much improved ( a lot of depth )

 

LB's --- Not very good, bottom half of the league ( for a 3-4 defense thats not good) Depends on what Maybin and Co. can do on the outside.

 

DB --- Excellent, Top 5 in the league

 

Special Teams --- going to be something special this year, Danny Batten is going to WTF PWN people.

 

K - Solid

 

P - Solid

 

 

Coaching -- good ole boys should have a little more exciting playbook.

 

Fair assessment