Rob's House Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Uh...maybe you should learn something about the US legal system. A civil suit has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Why don't you tell us how the criminal investigation and trail is going in this case? As far as her being completely discredited, get a clue. And see WEO's links above. Maybe you should attend that class with him. In the US legal system a criminal "trail" says nothing of actual innocence, but simply determines whether there is enough admissible evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is in fact guilty of the crime. The lack of sufficient admissible evidence does not necessarily equate to innocence.
Booster4324 Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Well that was Kelly's lawyers take on the events. Hers was obviously different. But if you believe PigBen is a rapist just because the girl said so the next day, then you would have to say Kelly was guilty of the assault as well. Granted, there were probably lots of witnesses not related to Kelly that could set the record straight in his case, but you get my point about accused meaning guilty. Sometimes people try to scam this way to make some bucks or for some other reason. Only in this case, Pig Ben bought her shots to the point she doesn't remember what happened (his defenders use that as some sort of defense), then had some sort of sexual contact with her. Even if she never said no, that would get some men in some states convicted of rape. Best case scenario, he is a waste of skin.
CodeMonkey Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Only in this case, Pig Ben bought her shots to the point she doesn't remember what happened (his defenders use that as some sort of defense), then had some sort of sexual contact with her. Even if she never said no, that would get some men in some states convicted of rape. Best case scenario, he is a waste of skin. Bought her shots, most likely though I doubt he held her nose and poured them down her throat against her will. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions. Even 20 year olds (in several bars illegally mind you). "some sort of sexual contact with her" I am unaware of any evidence of this. That night the girl said she didn't remember if they had sex or not. The next morning was a different story I guess. Only 1 person knows for sure and he isn't talking. Infer what you want but no one is getting convicted of anything in the US based on this, much less rape. Waste of skin, clearly true.
Booster4324 Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Bought her shots, most likely though I doubt he held her nose and poured them down her throat against her will. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions. Even 20 year olds (in several bars illegally mind you). "some sort of sexual contact with her" I am unaware of any evidence of this. That night the girl said she didn't remember if they had sex or not. The next morning was a different story I guess. Only 1 person knows for sure and he isn't talking. Infer what you want but no one is getting convicted of anything in the US based on this, much less rape. Waste of skin, clearly true. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/ben-roethlisb...ory?id=10077171 Edit - It was initially stated that he did say that. I could be wrong, but the initial report of saying that, then the subsequent denial considering the way the police handled it, is doubtful IMO.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Exactly---and so would every poster on this site if he was to do so in a Bills uniform. Wrong. The fan base would be deeply polarized. Those who favor winning at any cost and those who feel football is just a sport and does not supercede civility. Just like players in the NFL, football fans range from those with morals and those without. My take - being good at chucking a ball around an NFL field is rare but so are the opportunities for that kind of success and stature in life and I hope Big Ben goes down as a guy who had a great start but his arrogance exiled him to irrelevance where he was forgotten after some upstart ceases the moment while he sulks away the first 6 games this year.
CodeMonkey Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/ben-roethlisb...ory?id=10077171 Edit - It was initially stated that he did say that. I could be wrong, but the initial report of saying that, then the subsequent denial considering the way the police handled it, is doubtful IMO. Yeah like I said, only he knows for sure and even if he raped her he isn't going to say that. Winds up being scumbag-he said, drunken-she said. I do feel sorry for the girl, she got taken advantage of in a disgusting way. I hope she (and other girls reading the story) can learn from it.
Booster4324 Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Yeah like I said, only he knows for sure and even if he raped her he isn't going to say that.Winds up being scumbag-he said, drunken-she said. Let's put this in perspective though. Oakland declined to trade for him. The Bills have a desperate need for a QB, have a guy with intimate knowledge of the guy on staff, and decline to trade for him? Pittsburgh sure seemed ready to ship him out. The NFL suspended him for a "non-crime" and people still think he is innocent of the actual crime?
KD in CA Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 "Completely discredited?" Bull. Yeah, all 'victims' send cheery emails to their buddies about the event after the fact. Goodie for you for your "work with victims". Obviously it has blinded you to the fact that not everyone is a 'victim'. I'm sure you had the same hysterical condemnation of the Duke lacrosse team. And OJ was only found guilty in the civil suit. Guess his accusers have been "completely discredited" too, hunh? Internet rule #8: When you have no argument, always try to compare something to Hitler or OJ. Her suit is still working it's way through the court system. She's got a chance of winning it. Once again, so what? What does that have to do with anything? If I file a suit against you tomorrow for being an idiot, does that make it true? (ok, bad example) The lack of sufficient admissible evidence does not necessarily equate to innocence. And I never said it did. I said the existence of a civil suit doesn't in anyway indicate his guilt. Next time try reading the whole exchange.
Doc Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Wrong. The fan base would be deeply polarized. Yep. Just like with Lynch.
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Exactly---and so would every poster on this site if he was to do so in a Bills uniform. I certainly wouldn't. Would you?
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 No it wasn't. Don't be ridiculous. DC Tom is basically right, based upon what I've heard. And what I've heard isn't seventh hand.
Thurman#1 Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Bought her shots, most likely though I doubt he held her nose and poured them down her throat against her will. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions. Even 20 year olds (in several bars illegally mind you). "some sort of sexual contact with her" I am unaware of any evidence of this. That night the girl said she didn't remember if they had sex or not. The next morning was a different story I guess. Only 1 person knows for sure and he isn't talking. Infer what you want but no one is getting convicted of anything in the US based on this, much less rape. Waste of skin, clearly true. Two people know for sure, and while one of them isn't talking, one of them is.
Thurman#1 Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Yeah, all 'victims' send cheery emails to their buddies about the event after the fact. Goodie for you for your "work with victims". Obviously it has blinded you to the fact that not everyone is a 'victim'. I'm sure you had the same hysterical condemnation of the Duke lacrosse team. Look, bonehead, you keep arguing that I'm wrong when I said stuff. Thing is, I never said the things you're accusing me of. Could you quickly point out the part where I said "everyone is a victim." No, because I didn't say it. Could you point out where I said she is definitely a victim? No, because I never said it. I was answering you. You are the one who used the definite words, not me. You said she had been "completely discredited," and that is simply and completely false. Yeah, all 'victims' send cheery emails to their buddies about the event after the fact. Goodie for you for your "work with victims". Obviously it has blinded you to the fact that not everyone is a 'victim'. I'm sure you had the same hysterical condemnation of the Duke lacrosse team. Put it in punctuation marks all you want, I worked with victims. Have you? And victims of violence most often develop PTSD or ASR to a greater or lesser degree. I promise you that in fact, YES, an awful lot of victims of crime end up spouting huge amounts of crap to friends, ranging from suicide threats to laughing about it in emails and everything in between, often in the same email. As for the Duke lacrosse team, I never said they were guilty anymore than I have said that Roethlisberger is obviously guilty. Again, shadow arguments. Try arguing with stuff that I actually said rather stuff you seem to have made up in your head. You're the one who has made up his mind that he absolutely knows what happened, not me. Internet rule #8: When you have no argument, always try to compare something to Hitler or OJ. Let's see, Roethlisberger and OJ. Both football players. Both accused of crimes of violence towards women. Both facing or faced a civil suit. Yeah, no basis for comparison there at all. I said the existence of a civil suit doesn't in anyway indicate his guilt. Next time try reading the whole exchange. Why don't you take your own advice.
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