Why I think Bledsoe should remain as our starter

[ICE]

There are several things even in your short post which are simply wrong.

 

1. Development is not simply one thing it is a number of things.  Some QBs have great snarts but lack pro level athletic skills.  Some QBs have great athletic skill but lack the mental tools.  Some QBs have both physical and mental tools but lack the diligence to apply them.  Development for each of these QBs will be different and take a different amount of time and path.  Playing the game is necessary for all of them, but which focus comes first will differ for all of them as well.  Do you seriously insist there is one method and one timeline for every QB?

 

2. The comment that each and everyone of us could do what JP did on Sunday is so farcical that I assume and hope you were kidding.

 

3. I'm not looking to win any argument because one of the beauties of the internet for us posters is that there is no determination here of winning or losing.  Winning happens in the real world and the internet is not the real world.

 

4. The hisory of football is filled with QBs who did not start (and actually did not even play) their first years who became great successes,  Did Pennington start his first year? Is he a bust?  Did Brady start his first year? Is he a bust?  Likewise there are many QBs who did start in their first year and they were certainly busts (Leaf, Smith) and at least a credible argument that some were rushed along and asked to start when they were not ready (Collins).  I don't know where you get this notion that there is only one way to do this to be successful or that not doing it in the way your prescribe guarantees failure. There are numerous real world examples some mentioned above that do not fit your case.

 

5. Finally, a simple question. IS STARTING THE ONLY WAY ONE CAN PLAY?  I too agree that JP must play to develop, but the insistence you have that he must start in order to play is simply bizarre.  One might reasonably argue that starting gives you more time to play, but the simple fact is that one can play without starting.

 

I think JP should be learning some valuable lessons from his brief stints this year (tuck the damn ball away after the fumble in NE, watch the clock and command the game after the delay of game in Seattle).  One might argue that his short stints may give him time to make mistakes and not to correct them.  However, after the delay of game faux pas I think he very quickly showed better leadership and command of the gameflow in the remaining minutes of his stint and the Bills were rewarded by scoring his first real game TD with JP at QB.

 

I look forward to JP getting some more good minutes in mop-up duty this year (I hope they all come when we're on the correc end of a blowout.  Should (when) we are eliminate then when he is ready give him a start.  Not one minute sooner and not one minute later.

139751[/snapback]

 

 

Fatty write a 10 billion word post, it doesnt' change anything. STARTING is the only way. just handing a ball of isn't going to get it done. As for your stupid assed 'start him when he is ready' Bull stevestojan....NO QB WOULD EVER START with that type of thinking. NONE. As for Pennington...how many playoff games have they won? How many superbowls?

 

Seems to me the guys that developed ON THE FIELD are the ones that have taken their teams furthest.

[jad1]

Fatty write a 10 billion word post, it doesnt' change anything. STARTING is the only way. just handing a ball of isn't going to get it done. As for your stupid assed 'start him when he is ready' Bull stevestojan....NO QB WOULD EVER START with that type of thinking.  NONE.  As for Pennington...how many playoff games have they won? How many superbowls?

 

139792[/snapback]

 

He also mentioned Brady as a guy who sat his first year. How many playoff games has he won? How many Super Bowls?

[ICE]

He also mentioned Brady as a guy who sat his first year.  How many playoff games has he won?  How many Super Bowls?

139802[/snapback]

 

 

The guy has DEVELOPED into the player he is today. Again write and write and write over and over and over, it will change NOTHING. PLAYING and doing it as a STARTER is the ONLY Way you develop as a player.

[ICE]

PASSING

 

G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2000 New England Patriots 1 0 3 1 33.3 6 2.00 6 0 0 0/0 0 0 42.4

2001 New England Patriots 15 14 413 264 63.9 2843 6.88 91 18 12 41/216 32 6 86.5

2002 New England Patriots 16 16 601 373 62.1 3764 6.26 49 28 14 31/190 37 3 85.7

2003 New England Patriots 16 16 527 317 60.2 3620 6.87 82 23 12 32/219 44 8 85.9

2004 New England Patriots 11 11 337 198 58.8 2614 7.76 50 18 8 19/119 35 8 91.3

TOTAL 59 57 1881 1153 61.3 12847 6.83 91 87 46 123/744 148 25 86.8

 

 

Anyone notice how many games/Games STARTED Brady had his first full year? But hey some will stand on the 'he sat his first full year' I stand on 'He STARTED the entire 2nd year' some here are now clammoring for JP to sit ANOTHER Full season.

[BillnutinHouston]

As long as we are winning, keep Bledsoe in there.

139131[/snapback]

 

This is the obvious answer.

[jad1]

The guy has DEVELOPED into the player he is today.  Again write and write and write over and over and over, it will change NOTHING. PLAYING and doing it as a STARTER is the ONLY Way you develop as a player.

139820[/snapback]

 

Yeah, after he SAT on the BENCH for a year, he DEVELOPED into a SB MVP.

 

And SITTING on the BENCH did play a role in his development. No matter how much you write and crusade, you can't dispute that fact, unless you are really stupid enough to believe Brady spent a year retaining nothing.

 

WHY CAN'T LOSMAN AND THE BILLS DO THE SAME THING?!?!?!?

 

And just to clarify before you attack me, I believe there are several ways to become a good QB in the league. There are successful QBs in the league who started right away, and some who sat for a year a two, and some jumped from team to team before breaking through.

 

What it comes down to is if the coaches who are charge of developing the QB know what they're doing. I've seen enough from Mularkey to trust he's doing the right thing.

[ICE]

Yeah, after he SAT on the BENCH for a year, he DEVELOPED into a SB MVP.

 

And SITTING on the BENCH did play a role in his development.  No matter how much you write and crusade, you can't dispute that fact, unless you are really stupid enough to believe Brady spent a year retaining nothing.

 

WHY CAN'T LOSMAN AND THE BILLS DO THE SAME THING?!?!?!?

 

And just to clarify before you attack me, I believe there are several ways to become a good QB in the league.  There are successful QBs in the league who started right away, and some who sat for a year a two, and some jumped from team to team before breaking through.

 

What it comes down to is if the coaches who are charge of developing the QB know what they're doing.  I've seen enough from Mularkey to trust he's doing the right thing.

139851[/snapback]

 

So a couple wins over crappy teams and now MM is genious? Oh christ it has really went south in here.

 

Again read the post, We now have assclowns saying JP sits ANOTHER YEAR. sorry no. You drafted him in the first round, you made this guy your franchise QB by doing so. He has to play to develop.

 

Again Brady STARTED 14 out of the last 15 for the Pats.

[jad1]

So a couple wins over crappy teams and now MM is genious? Oh christ it has really went south in here.

 

Again read the post, We now have assclowns saying JP sits ANOTHER YEAR.  sorry no. You drafted him in the first round, you made this guy your franchise QB by doing so. He has to play to develop.

 

Again Brady STARTED 14 out of the last 15 for the Pats.

139853[/snapback]

 

 

Hey dumbass, get your facts straight. Brady was a rookie in 2000, not 2001. From your own stats, he threw THREE PASSES his rookie year.

 

So by this account, Losman is ahead of Brady's ROOKIE pace.

[ICE]

Hey dumbass, get your facts straight.  Brady was a rookie in 2000, not 2001.  From your own stats, he threw THREE PASSES his rookie year.

 

So by this account, Losman is ahead of Brady's ROOKIE pace.

139861[/snapback]

 

 

Again some on this board are saying sit JP NEXT YEAR AS WELL! Read man, read...

[d_wag]

it's not like JP was picked #1 overall or even top 5 -- he was picked #23..........the difference in money is HUGE, and the pressure to play losman next year is not there like it was in the palmer case and it is in the rivers case.........

 

the only pressure mularky has on him is the media -- the decision is not based around money or the quality of the pick.........if the pick was earlier, the arguement might make sense, but with the investment the bills made in losman being late in the first, it doesn't........

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

PASSING

 

                    G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2000 New England Patriots 1 0 3 1 33.3 6 2.00 6 0 0 0/0 0 0 42.4

2001 New England Patriots 15 14 413 264 63.9 2843 6.88 91 18 12 41/216 32 6 86.5

2002 New England Patriots 16 16 601 373 62.1 3764 6.26 49 28 14 31/190 37 3 85.7

2003 New England Patriots 16 16 527 317 60.2 3620 6.87 82 23 12 32/219 44 8 85.9

2004 New England Patriots 11 11 337 198 58.8 2614 7.76 50 18 8 19/119 35 8 91.3

TOTAL  59 57 1881 1153 61.3 12847 6.83 91 87 46 123/744 148 25 86.8

Anyone notice how many games/Games STARTED Brady had his first full year?  But hey some will stand on the 'he sat his first full year'  I stand on 'He STARTED the entire 2nd year'  some here are now clammoring for JP to sit ANOTHER Full season.

139827[/snapback]

 

At last some sense of reality. So by the example you cited it would be fine for you if JP started 0 games this year and started 14 of 16 next year. My guess is that my mantra of start him when he is ready to start would even be more aggressive than this example from the real world as it wouldn't shock me if he is ready to start and would profitably develop from starting later this year.

 

It also strikes me that it would be quite normal for him and his development not to log a start this year, but with the learning through play at garbage time this year, a full off-season where I would love to Sam Wyche adopt him, a full pre-season unblemished by injury, he might be ready to start and win next season.

 

Again, I agree that playing is essential. The oddity to me is why you for some reason think that starting is the only way JP can play.

 

He can play and valuable development in garbage time in games and has done so twice in recent weeks. You might argue that playing mop-up is valueless without the preparation of practice to get ready, but this would also seem to contradict your assertion that playing is the only way to get better which relegates practice and off-field preparation to meaninglessness.

 

I can understand why you do not wish to pursue your line of thinking in depth or much beyond the hidebound platitudes you right because one does not have to explore your arguments very far to run into some big contradictions.

[John from Riverside]

and that is why a team under you will never succeed. if a season is over ( and it will be with 7 losses) then you start preparing for the future.

 

Understand this folks, we drafted a QB in the first round. That means you have chosen him to be your Franchise QB.  To have him sit is NOT going to develop him.

 

Look at Carson Palmer. The guy sat all year last year...he is now developing. I can tell you right now SanDiego screwed the pooch taking a QB. Brees is now a 3rd year starter. he is NOW doing the things a 3RD YEAR STARTER should do. Read defenses better etc.  What SD should have done was take the stud LT that came out or given Brees even more help in some other area.

 

Sitting a QB doesn't help him develop.  Now if you want to trade him and get some other 3rd, 4th, 5th round QB in here and send him to NFLE in the offseason for experience then fine. But you can't do that with a 1st round QB. too much money invested.

139244[/snapback]

 

I agree with this.....

 

But I also think the bills are doing the right thing AT PRESENT.....as long as we still have an ounce of hope for the playoffs then it should be Bledsoe at the helm....once that ends (and one more loss should do it) then as far as I am concerned the Drew Bledsoe era is OVER...why?

 

- Because you dont take a first round pick (and even if we finish at 8-8 or 9-7 that pick we gave up to get Losman will be in the teens) and sit him on the bench....you just have too much wrapped up in that player. I actually like the way the bills are handling Losman right now....getting him time in games were the outcome is decided......and if we lose another game THEN THE OUTCOME OF OUR SEASON IS DECIDED.....you know have players playing for jobs next year.

 

- You dont pay what Drew is going to make next year to a backup QB......it is just too much money wrapped up in the position. And I dont buy the arguement about attracting Free Agents with Drew at the helm....MONEY attracts free agents and cutting/trading Drew would save cap space.

 

To me I dont think there is any doubt that JP Losman should be next years QB.....Drew is a caretaker for the offense....and to be quite honest he actually now playing like a caretaker instead of a horrible weakness.....but he is still NOT a playmaker......I do commend him for getting himself back up to "I dont suck" status......

[Dan Gross]

So a couple wins over crappy teams and now MM is genious? Oh christ it has really went south in here.

 

Again read the post, We now have assclowns saying JP sits ANOTHER YEAR.  sorry no. You drafted him in the first round, you made this guy your franchise QB by doing so. He has to play to develop.

 

Again Brady STARTED 14 out of the last 15 for the Pats.

139853[/snapback]

Here's classic ICE for you. The thread is started by saying "let's just let Bledsoe finish out the year." Nick clearly even says "Don't mistake what i'm saying. JP is the starter next year." Now, after having been shown situations where a guy has started after a year on the bench, your argument slides from "every game he sits we get a game further away from the super bowl" to "he has to play next year," which is not an argument against the original post, but a backtrack because he has been given counter-evidence (Tom Brady). I've read the posts from the guy who started the thread and he says wait on starting Losman until next year, you said no to that, and feel now that you are arguing against him even though he is in agreement.

 

I still say he can't leapfrog from #3 to #1. If the coaches don't have enough confidence in his play that they feel he is the best person to go in if the starting QB is injured, then starting him will do him (and the team) no good, and could do him harm. And remember too that he has lost a half-season of off-field development...

[ICE]

At last some sense of reality.  So by the example you cited it would be fine for you if JP started 0 games this year and started 14 of 16 next year.  My guess is that my mantra of start him when he is ready to start would even be more aggressive than this example from the real world as it wouldn't shock me if he is ready to start and would profitably develop from starting later this year.

 

It also strikes me that it would be quite normal for him and his development not to log a start this year, but with the learning through play at garbage time this year, a full off-season where I would love to Sam Wyche adopt him, a full pre-season unblemished by injury, he might be ready to start and win next season.

 

Again, I agree that playing is essential.  The oddity to me is why you for some reason think that starting is the only way JP can play.

 

He can play and valuable development in garbage time in games and has done so twice in recent weeks.  You might argue that playing mop-up is valueless without the preparation of practice to get ready, but this would also seem to contradict your assertion that playing is the only way to get better which relegates practice and off-field preparation to meaninglessness.

 

I can understand why you do not wish to pursue your line of thinking in depth or much beyond the hidebound platitudes you right because one does not have to explore your arguments very far to run into some big contradictions.

139882[/snapback]

 

 

Valuable Development in garbage time? What? handing off? bottom line playing is the only way to develop. I mean PLAY. Pass and hand off. Try to run the SAME offense and SCORE.

[The Avenger]

My take on the issue - you need to decide whether you're going to give yourself the best shot at the playoffs this year or enhance your chances of doing it next year.

 

If you chose the former and want it this year Bledsoe probably gives the Bills a better chance to win now. The problem is that we would almost need to run the table and go 10-6 to make the playoffs and even 10 wins won't guarantee a spot in the AFC this year.

 

If you decide you want to give yourself the best possible chance to make the 2005 playoffs Losman needs to see some playing time prior to next year. Not as a #3 QB where he'll only play in blowout games (good or bad blowouts). He needs to be #2 and at least rotated into the offense and see real time.

 

Every rookie has their issues. Eli Manning looks bad now because he's a rookie making rookie mistakes. If you look at his fundamentals you'll see he's probably going to be a good QB once he gets some experience and stops making rookie mistakes. Same should go for Losman - he has to acclimate to the pro game by making and learning from his mistakes. He might be able to do that in practices as he rides the bench, but I think the best way would be to put him into some games.

[jad1]

Again some on this board are saying sit JP NEXT YEAR AS WELL!  Read man, read...

139863[/snapback]

 

I did read. I'll sum it up for you, since you're too slow to understand the stats that you, yourself post.

 

--Fat said that there are good QBs who sat their first year, citing Pennington and Brady.

 

--YOU ignored Brady and used Pennington as the whipping boy to make your argument (i.e. How many playoff games did Pennington win? How many SBs did Pennington win).

 

--I pointed out your distortion of Fatty's point, ignoring Brady, who sat his first year and won the SB MVP his second.

 

--I asked the question, why can't Losman do the same, proving that I was not advocating sitting Losman his second year.

 

--You claimed that Brady did start his rookie year, even though the stats you posted proved otherwise, for which I called you a dumbass.

 

--You then claimed the argument isn't about sitting one year, it's sitting two, claiming I should read the messages I responded too.

 

You're pulling stuff out of your ass so fast, even you can't keep track of it.

[Bill from NYC]

and that is why a team under you will never succeed. if a season is over ( and it will be with 7 losses) then you start preparing for the future.

 

Understand this folks, we drafted a QB in the first round. That means you have chosen him to be your Franchise QB.  To have him sit is NOT going to develop him.

 

Look at Carson Palmer. The guy sat all year last year...he is now developing. I can tell you right now SanDiego screwed the pooch taking a QB. Brees is now a 3rd year starter. he is NOW doing the things a 3RD YEAR STARTER should do. Read defenses better etc.  What SD should have done was take the stud LT that came out or given Brees even more help in some other area.

 

Sitting a QB doesn't help him develop.  Now if you want to trade him and get some other 3rd, 4th, 5th round QB in here and send him to NFLE in the offseason for experience then fine. But you can't do that with a 1st round QB. too much money invested.

139244[/snapback]

 

You raise a valid point, but your logic is far from fool proof.

Just look at the lions and little Joey Harrington.

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah, after he SAT on the BENCH for a year, he DEVELOPED into a SB MVP.

 

And SITTING on the BENCH did play a role in his development.  No matter how much you write and crusade, you can't dispute that fact, unless you are really stupid enough to believe Brady spent a year retaining nothing.

 

WHY CAN'T LOSMAN AND THE BILLS DO THE SAME THING?!?!?!?

 

And just to clarify before you attack me, I believe there are several ways to become a good QB in the league.  There are successful QBs in the league who started right away, and some who sat for a year a two, and some jumped from team to team before breaking through.

 

What it comes down to is if the coaches who are charge of developing the QB know what they're doing.  I've seen enough from Mularkey to trust he's doing the right thing.

139851[/snapback]

Because more than anything, Timmah needs to be right about SOMETHING. He obviously knows more than the coaching staff who actually has been getting paid for over 100 years NFL experience and who actually see the kid everyday.

[jad1]

You raise a valid point, but your logic is far from fool proof.

  Just look at the lions and little Joey Harrington.

140034[/snapback]

 

And every QB the Bears and Bengals drafted in the first round (before Palmer).