Thanks Leonidas

[Ramius]

Why SHOULD Tim have had to defend the entire ESPN platform? He's not the one in charge of it.

 

He said a while back that visiting the site was becoming less and less enjoyable, and when it stopped being fun, he was done. He's not the only one: have you guys ever stopped to ask yourselves why the crew from WGR faded away? Because (as one of them told me), every time one of them posted, it devolved into a let's-bash-Schopp thread, and they eventually got sick of it.

 

So, I'll repeat myself: nice job.

 

And don't be surprised if I start spending a lot less time here, too.

Add: Hell, maybe some of you will applaud that as well.

 

I enjoyed Tim's insight and inside contacts. He brought a good bit of info to the board and it will be missed.

 

That being said, he could have left without the melodrama. This is the 3rd or 4th time he's acted like he's above criticism and we need to worship him and his ideas/opinions or else he's going to take his ball and go home. That type of attitude isn't needed here at all, no matter if its coming from Tim Graham, some random noob, or Ralph Wilson himself. Most of us knew it was a privilege getting Tim to answer questions. But that doesn't make him better than us, which is the way he acted.

[grammer_police]

I enjoyed Tim's insight and inside contacts. He brought a good bit of info to the board and it will be missed.

 

That being said, he could have left without the melodrama. This is the 3rd or 4th time he's acted like he's above criticism and we need to worship him and his ideas/opinions or else he's going to take his ball and go home. That type of attitude isn't needed here at all, no matter if its coming from Tim Graham, some random noob, or Ralph Wilson himself. Most of us knew it was a privilege getting Tim to answer questions. But that doesn't make him better than us, which is the way he acted.

 

 

yes

[Thurman#1]

Under the circumstances, Tim was right to say goodbye.

 

I get that Leonidas wasn't trying to viciously attack or anything, but if you said bad stuff about my employer and my colleagues when I was talking with you and a group of people around the table table in a bar, I'd find a way to gracefully excuse myself and I'd walk away if I saw you in the area ever again. Why put up with that? Why hang around with someone who doesn't understand the rules of polite conversation? Why go places where people are unpleasant?

 

Thanks for everything, Tim.

[Thurman#1]

Oh my god, this thread has 7 pages of responses. I'm almost mad at myself for adding to it. But seriously, who fricken cares? Okay, TG got his feelings hurt? People get pissed on here all the time and take off for a while. It's a fricken forum. Anyone can post on here. There are thousands of members on here. Try putting a hundred people in a room expressing an opinion and watch the fights break out.

 

I mean seriously, I like some posters here, some are full of themselves, and some are indifferent to me, but none of them are gonna get me upset. If someone says something dumb, I'll respond or ignore it

 

At the end of the day, we all have insights. Some good, some not so good. Sure it's cool to have someone who knows people on ESPN, but no one is any different than anyone else on here in my opinion.

 

 

 

You're not a pro volunteering your time. Frankly, nobody would care if you stopped posting. Or if I did. Neither of us have access, personal knowledge of what goes on in the locker room, NFL sources, or really anything but our opinion. Tim added value here, a tremendous amount. You and I don't.

 

Tim, Lori and John Wawrow were the best things on here. Now, Lori is getting fed up, and I don't blame her either.

[Thurman#1]

I'm sorry but this is all a little too much. I thought what Leonidas wrote was very funny stuff. Sure, I can see where it would rub Tim the wrong way and I don't blame Tim for one moment from taking some time away from the board as a way of demonstrating his displeasure with the post. But it was hardly a personal attack.

 

Leonidas took advantage of Tim's position to express a real frustration from the fan who does not happen to support the "big clubs." As a fan of European Football, having sports coverage cater to the "big club" is all too familiar and evokes the same type of commentary from Leonidas's counterparts on the other side of the pond, complete with the type of wit demonstrated by Leonidas in his post.

 

What troubles me more is the reaction of some on this site who forget that we are citizens of the United States and Leonidas is free to express himself in any manner he chooses so long as certain legal lines are not crossed, which in my useless opinion, were not in this case. I stopped reading posts on PPP because of the intolerance of posters masked under the label of patriotism. We should not allow a similar "censorship" to form in this forum.

 

Rant over.

 

 

 

Maybe it was the right rant, but it was sure the wrong place for it.

 

And the free speech argument is idiotic. Nobody is threatening to arrest Leonidas. Just wondering whether he would ever be someone you'd invite to dinner. And with that post, I'm clear that he'll never be a guest in my house. Not that he would care.

 

Tim was a guest. You don't insult friends of the guest and then wonder why he leaves.

 

And if the rest of your family really wanted to talk to the guy, don't be surprised if they're angry with you.

[extrahammer]

Why SHOULD Tim have had to defend the entire ESPN platform? He's not the one in charge of it.

 

So you mean the guy in front of me today at McDonald's that bitched out some high school cashier over not helping him fast enough even though they were short handed, was wrong? And the high school cashier, is just in fact a high school cashier and not the owner??

[dollarcoin]

People are shockingly thin skinned on these forums. It's like it's everyone's first day on the Internet.

[Buftex]

If this was an ESPN board you would be right . Since it is supposed to be a discussion / fan board for the Bills you are absolutely wrong. The board looks more and more like romper room here every day with infants throwing temper tantrums simply because they can type. Debate is a lost art .

 

 

You know...I think it stinks that TG is not going to post anymore...and it is too bad that it was a result of somebody's post. I understand, in context, why TG got angry, and that is his right.

 

 

But, do any of you who are going on about how bad the board is, ever go to other message boards? I have a membership on about 50 different pro sports teams message boards. I don't post on most, because they are awful. TBD is far and away one of the top 2...

 

Sure, we have our idiots, but, for the most part, if they are ignored, they go away, or try to stop acting like idiots. I think the core here is, overall, pretty bright.

 

Lets face it, if the Bills were a better team, and winning more games, there wouldn't be as much animosity amongst some. What draws us all here, all 7 billion members, is our love of the Buffalo Bills. When the one thing we have in common is pretty depressing, or kind of dull, things get out of hand. Just like home...

[Mr. WEO]

I hope Tim reconsiders. His exit seemed a bit rash.

 

It is funny to observe the crocodile weeping by so many over his TSW demise when a large number of posters here would bash the guy (his TO stuff, his pats stuff, etc.) whenever he didn't toe the TSW line.

 

Come on back Tim--yours was the only thoughtful media input we had here.

[DarthICE]

Under the circumstances, Tim was right to say goodbye.

 

I get that Leonidas wasn't trying to viciously attack or anything, but if you said bad stuff about my employer and my colleagues when I was talking with you and a group of people around the table table in a bar, I'd find a way to gracefully excuse myself and I'd walk away if I saw you in the area ever again. Why put up with that? Why hang around with someone who doesn't understand the rules of polite conversation? Why go places where people are unpleasant?

 

Thanks for everything, Tim.

 

 

Bull ****. The guy intentionally goes after posters and personally attacks every thread he can

[PromoTheRobot]

I guess it's inevitable that people find a way to screw anything up. Every hero gets turned on eventually. Me personally I stopped reading Tim's thread for this very reason. Let's not go after Wawrow now.

 

PTR

[taterhill]

The level of stupidity in this world amazes me.....

 

If a chef of a fine restaurant offers to come to your house to cook for you and your family for free, does it make any sense to tell them their food sucks, restaurant sucks, and every person they know sucks? Even if you dont like them, you keep your mouth shut.....this all stems from the parents make excuses for their kids and 12th place trophy generation

[Steely Dan]

An accurate fact is an accurate fact regardless of its source. The ease of Twitter has enabled people who are in a position to obtain accurate facts to share them with shlubs like us who would otherwise go without knowing. I appreciate that, even if I do have to occasionally hear about what that same person had on their hot dog that day.

 

It seems some people think that new technology that makes a job easier should be ignored. IMO, that's just dumb.

 

 

sure. everyone has the right to be an a++hole from time to time, then again there's no need to abuse the privelege.

 

how about this, just don't visit the site? don't click on the links. get your information from a site you find less offensive? or how about this---provide the feedback to someone who gives a crap?

 

newsflash--espn sells stuff. plenty of people are buying. maybe your suggestion to be less sensitive should have applied to leonidas?

 

The problem is that nobody really gives a crap about what a lot of people say, for good reason, and that just makes them angrier and stupider.

 

 

This was something I was wondering as well. Perhaps another solution is having any posters pre-approved by moderators before being allowed to participate in this hypothetical thread. Although I'm not sure how realistic this is, whether TG or the moderators would be willing or quite frankly whether it is deserved. Some of the ignorance and classlessness around here is genuinely disappointing.

 

Some people have no concept of professionalism, etiquette or class.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Privileges could be revoked at any time also.

 

 

I enjoyed Tim's insight and inside contacts. He brought a good bit of info to the board and it will be missed.

 

That being said, he could have left without the melodrama. This is the 3rd or 4th time he's acted like he's above criticism and we need to worship him and his ideas/opinions or else he's going to take his ball and go home. That type of attitude isn't needed here at all, no matter if its coming from Tim Graham, some random noob, or Ralph Wilson himself. Most of us knew it was a privilege getting Tim to answer questions. But that doesn't make him better than us, which is the way he acted.

 

I've never percieved that attitude from him.

 

Under the circumstances, Tim was right to say goodbye.

 

I get that Leonidas wasn't trying to viciously attack or anything, but if you said bad stuff about my employer and my colleagues when I was talking with you and a group of people around the table table in a bar, I'd find a way to gracefully excuse myself and I'd walk away if I saw you in the area ever again. Why put up with that? Why hang around with someone who doesn't understand the rules of polite conversation? Why go places where people are unpleasant?

 

Thanks for everything, Tim.

 

Excellent analogy.

 

 

So you mean the guy in front of me today at McDonald's that bitched out some high school cashier over not helping him fast enough even though they were short handed, was wrong? And the high school cashier, is just in fact a high school cashier and not the owner??

 

 

 

The level of stupidity in this world amazes me.....

 

If a chef of a fine restaurant offers to come to your house to cook for you and your family for free, does it make any sense to tell them their food sucks, restaurant sucks, and every person they know sucks? Even if you dont like them, you keep your mouth shut.....this all stems from the parents make excuses for their kids and 12th place trophy generation

 

Fantastic analogy!

[SuperKillerRobots]

I agree. Par for the course.

 

I will say that reading the exchange, I didn't think Leonidas went all that much overboard, and his overall point is well-taken (as was TG's rejoinder of: "don't click on that stuff if you don't like it.")

 

Why the hell is anyone on here asking the writer about the look of the site? Send an email to editor or webmaster.

 

Thanks for your thoughts Tim!

[Canadian Bills Fan]

What some people forget is that Tim is paid by ESPN to deal with bashing comments on his blog and articles on the ESPN website.

 

 

He came to TSW free of charge on his own time which goes above and beyond his job description at ESPN.

 

Tim never had to start a thread to field any questions we had for him, but he did it anyway.

 

I am sorry to see him go but understand his reasoning

[birdog1960]

I hope Tim reconsiders. His exit seemed a bit rash.

 

It is funny to observe the crocodile weeping by so many over his TSW demise when a large number of posters here would bash the guy (his TO stuff, his pats stuff, etc.) whenever he didn't toe the TSW line.

 

Come on back Tim--yours was the only thoughtful media input we had here.

agreed. i think the beginning of the end was the schottenheimer article and Tim Graham alludes to this. the personal attacks on reporters who objectively cover and thus write negative things about a struggling franchise are unfair and mean spirited. they are defense mechanisms that allow the deluded to continue their fantasies at significant cost. unfortunately, the end result is the further loss of objectivity here. did nevergiveup ever mention the schottenheimer dealings? it may become just as informative to go to the official bills site for "inside info" if we keep losing posters like Graham.

[Arkady Renko]

Are you ever with someone and he says something awful about a colleague or friend and you worry that someone overhearing the conversation or seeing you associated with this person might think that you agree with what he is saying?

 

I have and it is a very uncomfortable position to be in. I think this is what TG was facing and his response was completely appropriate.

 

I also apologize for my non-serious joke about Jerry Sullivan in his thread.

[Lori]

What some people forget is that Tim is paid by ESPN to deal with bashing comments on his blog and articles on the ESPN website.

 

 

He came to TSW free of charge on his own time which goes above and beyond his job description at ESPN.

 

Tim never had to start a thread to field any questions we had for him, but he did it anyway.

 

I am sorry to see him go but understand his reasoning

Bingo. In fact, when ESPN issued a social-media policy which restricted its employees from participating in unauthorized (read: non-ESPN) blogs, message boards, and other platforms, Tim made the effort to clear his membership here with his editor. Didn't have to do that, either. He could have EASILY said, "Sorry, guys, but they're not going to let me keep doing this," which is what happened with one of their columnists who used to hang out at our writers' board.

 

When I first asked him what he thought about the idea of a pinned thread, he replied, "I would be honored to do it." Only took 15 months for the haters to beat that out of him.

 

Again, nice job.

 

As for the Schottenheimer flap: while Nevergiveup disagreed with Tim on precisely who inside One Bills Drive was against hiring him -- they were getting their info from sources on opposite sides of the situation, remember -- he confirmed that Marty did indeed want the job, which is what most people were attacking Tim on.

[Reddy Freddy]

My 2 cents ...

 

Sorry to see Tim go, but let's not forget that he visits this board in large part to help him do his job -- not entirely out of some magnanimous charity effort. He comes here to see what's on the mind of Bills fans, and perhaps to pick up some interesting perspectives on Bills news from time to time. Odds are he will still visit TSW, even if he doesn't post.

 

I've known a lot of sportswriters. Trust me, they're no more knowledgeable than many of the posters on this board.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

My 2 cents ...

 

Sorry to see Tim go, but let's not forget that he visits this board in large part to help him do his job -- not entirely out of some magnanimous charity effort. He comes here to see what's on the mind of Bills fans, and perhaps to pick up some interesting perspectives on Bills news from time to time. Odds are he will still visit TSW, even if he doesn't post.

 

I've known a lot of sportswriters. Trust me, they're no more knowledgeable than many of the posters on this board.

 

 

Maybe with the exception of NGU, most posters here do not have a contact who works in the Bills front office so I think Tim had a step up on all of us