Thanks Leonidas

[DC Grid]

I guess Leonidas might have gone a little overboard, but Tim seems more than a little on edge about it all. If anyone here has ever read / participated in one of his ESPN Insider chats on ESPN, they'd see it's riddled with people trashing him / fighting with him. He seems to enjoy the fight, or at least bring it out of people with his occasional wise*** statements. I don't know why he'd expect things to go that much different on TSW. To quote Rex Ryan, we're not here to kiss his rings.

 

As an aside, I found his defending of ESPN Boston based on comercial success to be ridiculous. I was born in Boston and am a Sox fan from the age of 5, and ESPN Boston is an abortion, to put it politely. It's a great site if you want to find out what happened a week ago, but it is horridly maintained and always out of date. "Scoops" or Insider / Local info usually runs on ESPN Boston about 2-3 days after the Globe (Boston.com) or the herald report on it, and often 1-2 days AFTER OTHER PAGES ON ESPN.COM report on it.

 

As proof: the headline RIGHT NOW on ESPN Boston is about Lackey pitching on Patriots' Day. (Which was April 19) The second lead is about the ramifications of the Garnett suspension and whether or not it will hurt the Celtics ability to move on. For those who don't know that series wrapped up LAST WEEK and KG had a pretty decent night last night as the Celts took game one of their series against the Cavs.

[LeviF]

IMO, Leonidas stepped over the line with the first post about Reiss, and Tim responded fine to that. I think it should have ended there. Leonidas did a running long jump over the line with the second post, and if Tim's patience ran out there, that's fine by me (although I'd prefer it if he stayed around).

 

I think Tom has it right when he says that Leonidas has legitimate complaints, but the TG thread was no place for them. A "fart in an elevator" is a pretty good way of putting it.

 

As far as the corporate success of ESPNInsertCityHere, what the hell do you expect? If it sells, keep selling it. Disney is there to make money, and if what they're doing works, more power to them.

[Magox]

Was there ever any question that he would be leaving this message board? I saw this one coming from the first day I saw TG react to another message board members post that he didn't care for.

 

Too bad, he was our best known football insider.

[berndogg]

I guess Leonidas might have gone a little overboard, but Tim seems more than a little on edge about it all. If anyone here has ever read / participated in one of his ESPN Insider chats on ESPN, they'd see it's riddled with people trashing him / fighting with him. He seems to enjoy the fight, or at least bring it out of people with his occasional wise*** statements. I don't know why he'd expect things to go that much different on TSW. To quote Rex Ryan, we're not here to kiss his rings.

I think it's been discussed here, but basically the issue is that he gets paid to put up with peoples' crap on ESPN chats, he does TSW for free. I think most people will put up with a lot more crap at their jobs than they will when they're providing a free service. I mean, if you were volunteering at a soup kitchen, and all the homeless people were telling you your company sucked and co-workers were idiots, you'd probably look at it differently than when your clients are giving you a hard time at work.

[Lv-Bills]

Just to play devil's advocate for a second- did a professional sportswriter really expect to come on a fan website and not have ONE person act the fool? Sounds to me like he's a little bit of a "delicate genius." God forbid we disturb the "delicate genius!" Like Lori said, it was bound to happen at some point. P.S. Didn't he say that he was making his last post like three months ago?

 

+1

[WVUFootball29]

And the inmates continue to run the asylum...

[Kettle Creek Football]

I was surprised TG was on here at all.

[DrFishfinder]

Why SHOULD Tim have had to defend the entire ESPN platform? He's not the one in charge of it.

 

He said a while back that visiting the site was becoming less and less enjoyable, and when it stopped being fun, he was done. He's not the only one: have you guys ever stopped to ask yourselves why the crew from WGR faded away? Because (as one of them told me), every time one of them posted, it devolved into a let's-bash-Schopp thread, and they eventually got sick of it.

 

So, I'll repeat myself: nice job.

 

And don't be surprised if I start spending a lot less time here, too.

Add: Hell, maybe some of you will applaud that as well.

I for one, would miss your insight, hard work and contributions here. We have assembled some threads that have maintained a pretty good degree of civility, so it is possible.

 

That being said, and I am being deadly serious here, we can start another message board where the rules of civility ARE paramount and strictly enforced, since they are not, here. One where the 1st time you violate the rules of civility, you are on probation. The 2nd time is your last.

 

MBL for example.

 

So. I would hate to see you go, but there are alternatives and choices.

[RealityCheck]

I could care less. Sports writers and talk radio hosts are just morons that have a platform and a bottom line to answer to. They are puppets. These guys contribute NOTHING to my sports experience. I don't need them to tell me that 2+2=4, or more often than not that 2+2=40. More often than not their opinions just annoy me. I would prefer the insight of former players and coaches, not pencil necks that have the same vantage point that I do.

[SwampD]

I bet Leonidas works for Yahoo Sports.

[300yrds]

Why is it Tim's job to take abuse regarding complaints against his employer? Be a grown up and contact ESPN yourself.... Tim is not the complaints department

 

Correct! So there is no reason for him to get upset over it, at least not this upset. It was two posts from Leo and TG through a school girl hissy fit. People are posting that Leonidas showed up to church drunk with no pants on, when infact he made some matter of fact points, using everyday language, on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. Maybe next time some of us type messages to TG they will take down their avatars of young girls in scantally clad clothing. After all Lori and the other women on here dont come here for that, its not their job to look at that.

 

TG was doing us a favor, but he was also doing personal advertising, by coming on here he keeps himself relevant in the Buffalo market, with his not so favorable NE point of view. His presence on here was just as self serving as it was a service to us.

 

With that said I enjoyed his insights from time to time, and will miss checking up on it.

[RealityCheck]

Correct! So there is no reason for him to get upset over it, at least not this upset. It was two posts from Leo and TG through a school girl hissy fit. People are posting that Leonidas showed up to church drunk with no pants on, when infact he made some matter of fact points, using everyday language, on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. Maybe next time some of us type messages to TG they will take down their avatars of young girls in scantally clad clothing. After all Lori and the other women on here dont come here for that, its not their job to look at that.

 

TG was doing us a favor, but he was also doing personal advertising, by coming on here he keeps himself relevant in the Buffalo market, with his not so favorable NE point of view. His presence on here was just as self serving as it was a service to us.

 

With that said I enjoyed his insights from time to time, and will miss checking up on it.

Leonidas will take 300 of our finest and march them into Boston.........and on that day the world will know that a few stood against many, and that even a candya** sports writer with feelings can bleed. WWWWWWHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

[300yrds]

I think it's been discussed here, but basically the issue is that he gets paid to put up with peoples' crap on ESPN chats, he does TSW for free. I think most people will put up with a lot more crap at their jobs than they will when they're providing a free service. I mean, if you were volunteering at a soup kitchen, and all the homeless people were telling you your company sucked and co-workers were idiots, you'd probably look at it differently than when your clients are giving you a hard time at work.

 

so if you where a chef, and cooked dinner for your family every night its not ok for them not to like the food? or is this one of those we are the homeless and TG is holier than thou and doing us such a favor that we must just nod our heads at whatever he says.

 

just as we are capable of ignoring situations or posts on this board, TG is too. I am glad that he gave a promise ring to his bestie at ESPN I thought that was cute. He had the option to read and move on, not respond, and none of this would have happend. Or is it ok for him to comment about others and what they have to say, just not the other way around

[el Tigre]

Unfortunately,this whole situation is typical of this board. The general mood around here is one of negativity,bitching and sniping at one another. I don't know why that is. I'm a active participant on a college football discussion board and the atmosphere is so much different there. It seems everybody there feels a sort of brotherhood,for lack of a better term,that brings us to the board in the first place. We still have our differences,but we seem to handle it in a much friendlier way. Here it seems most want to tear the other guys throat out at the first chance. Sometimes it's hard to have a civilized discussion or debate here without being called an idiot,moron or told to STFU. There are some cool and funny people here and it's definitely a great source for Bills info,but some tighter moderation would probly be good for this place.

[DrFishfinder]

Unfortunately,this whole situation is typical of this board. The general mood around here is one of negativity,bitching and sniping at one another. I don't know why that is. I'm a active participant on a college football discussion board and the atmosphere is so much different there. It seems everybody there feels a sort of brotherhood,for lack of a better term,that brings us to the board in the first place. We still have our differences,but we seem to handle it in a much friendlier way. Here it seems most want to tear the other guys throat out at the first chance. Sometimes it's hard to have a civilized discussion or debate here without being called an idiot,moron or told to STFU. There are some cool and funny people here and it's definitely a great source for Bills info,but some tighter moderation would probly be good for this place.

Yes, it would.

[Kevin]

Correct! So there is no reason for him to get upset over it, at least not this upset. It was two posts from Leo and TG through a school girl hissy fit. People are posting that Leonidas showed up to church drunk with no pants on, when infact he made some matter of fact points, using everyday language, on an INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD. Maybe next time some of us type messages to TG they will take down their avatars of young girls in scantally clad clothing. After all Lori and the other women on here dont come here for that, its not their job to look at that.

 

TG was doing us a favor, but he was also doing personal advertising, by coming on here he keeps himself relevant in the Buffalo market, with his not so favorable NE point of view. His presence on here was just as self serving as it was a service to us.

 

With that said I enjoyed his insights from time to time, and will miss checking up on it.

 

 

So let me get this straight. He advertising to US? By coming here he keeps himself RELEVANT? That is funny. I thought his job at ESPN blogging for the AFC East made him relevant to Buffalo. But who am I?

[PushthePile]

Tim Graham gets alot of praise here and he deserves it. I think most of us really enjoyed his insight and willingness to answer questions as best he could. With that being said, I don't think Leonidas did anything wrong. This is a message board and strong opinions should be welcomed. Leonidas made some relevant points and to my knowledge never directly disrespected Tim.

 

It's kind of funny to see the reaction from some of the posters here, considering much worse occurs on a regular basis. IMO, Tim could have just as easily said he wasn't interested in debating about ESPN and left it at that. Like I said before, the overwhelmingly majority of us have shown our appreciation repeatedly.

 

If he wasn't enjoying his time here anymore, that's cool. His contributions have already been above and beyond. I can't blame Leonidas for what happened though.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

I can't say I'm terribly surprised, but I am extremely disappointed. We've been warned and now this is what it's come to?

 

Thanks Tim (if you ever bother to check the board again), I and many others really appreciate all your insight and you will certainly be missed.

Not to be a jerk...but everyone sits here bashing ESPN, and now that somebody gets called out about...we all love ESPN?

[Lv-Bills]

So let me get this straight. He advertising to US? By coming here he keeps himself RELEVANT? That is funny. I thought his job at ESPN blogging for the AFC East made him relevant to Buffalo. But who am I?

You honestly can't be that dumb as to not think part of the reason he is here, is to advertise himself, in which I see nothing wrong with. From his own arguments, he spoke about how ESPN sites dwarf the local sites in terms of traffic. Evidently traffic is a big deal.

 

I had no idea who Tim Graham was until he posted here a bit. So, for me, this site gave him life. I then hit his blog a few times which gave him traffic. I'm sure they look at those traffic hits like TV people look at TV ratings. Colin Cowherd surely looks, because he talks about site traffic a lot in relation to the NFL dwarfing everyone. TG benefits just as much from this site, if not more, than we get inside info from him. It's also easy for him to follow this board in order to get ideas for blogs about what's important to Bills fans. It's easier to make some of his blogs relevant. You can tell that some writers do this, because thier columns, blogs, etc, often times now echo sentiment on message boards.

 

I was kinda glad TG was here. I even got on him hard once about our tool Chris Mortensen. I had to back off because nothing good was coming from it. However, jeez o whiz people, when real news breaks anymore, none of these "insiders" get anything right anyway. It's all a bunch of guesses until the real story finally comes out. So, just be patient, take these people and their info for what it is, and calm down. It's usually harder sifting through all the guessers than to just sit back and let it work itself out here.

 

I don't understand those of you who act like they've lost a loved one because he's gone. I also don't understand why some of you have so much anger towards him. When news is about to break on anything Bills related, you really don't have to go from site to site to get the news anyway. Just refresh here until you have matching threads from different sources and then you know it's real.

 

TG's here. TG's not. Who cares. As long as Nevergiveup (aka Russ Brandon) stays, that's really all we need for now.

[TimGraham]

I'm not going to belabor the situation because it's really pointless, but for my own peace of mind and so that people know where I'm coming from, I will respond to a few points being made here.

 

Some are saying it's because I'm thin-skinned, but the fact of the matter is I'm walking away not because of attacks made on me. I can handle those. As pointed out previously, I like to engage with readers who disagree with me in my chats or the comments section. But that's not the case here. This was an attack on a friend and a coworker, and by extension, my employer. And this wasn't the first time.

 

Chris Mortensen, for instance, is another friend -- a man who went out of his way at a time when my father was near death to call me regularly to see how he was doing. I remember one of the first times he called and asked what my father's name was. I didn't know why he wanted to know, but I told him. He said "OK, because I want to mention him in my prayers tonight." That's the kind of guy Mort is. You may disagree with what he writes or how he covers the team, but the venom I read on here about him being a piece of [insert expletive here] makes my blood boil. The same goes with Jerry Sullivan, another close friend. People here can't or won't separate the reporter from the person, coverage from character. It's juvenile and gets to be too much.

 

Would you remain a member of an organization that trashes your friends? I wouldn't either.

 

I can handle myself, but I'm not going to implicitly approve of what goes on here by not only being a member, but also being active in it. If you see that as thin-skinned, then I can't help you. I see it as pretty logical.

 

Here's what I wrote on my "Ask Tim" thread a while back when people here were demanding I out a source and trashing my credentials:

 

The difference between what I face in my job and what I do here is that I don't get paid to come here. ESPN pays me to deal with the comments I receive at the bottom of my blogs and in my mailbag and wherever else.

 

When I come here it's because I enjoy it. When I stop enjoying it, then I will find something else to do.

 

If your wife nags you at home and you decide to go out with the boys to have some fun, do you feel compelled to walk up to a table full of women and ask them to yell at you because, after all, that is what's waiting for you at home?

 

 

Now, I'll address a few notes on here. But I think you'll notice I wouldn't be refuting opinions of my work or my role on this site. That's because those are your opinions, and you're entitled to them. I don't take offense if you don't like what I do.