#Reminder# From Micheal Moore

[GG]

It's our extreme, long-lived support of Israel that makes the people in Arab countries hate the US.

 

I didn't know Pakistanis were Arabs. Learn something new every day.

 

I'm sure that the territorial squabble over a land strip on the Mediterranean is the reason why Pakistanis are blowing up Mumbai. Maybe you can also tell it's why Indonesians decided to blow up a nightclub full of Westerners?

[Gene Frenkle]

I didn't know Pakistanis were Arabs. Learn something new every day.

 

I'm sure that the territorial squabble over a land strip on the Mediterranean is the reason why Pakistanis are blowing up Mumbai. Maybe you can also tell it's why Indonesians decided to blow up a nightclub full of Westerners?

Sure, sure, whatever. I don't even remotely care about the difference. The fact is that Muslims in the Middle East hate us first and foremost because we support Israel. I'm not saying we shouldn't support Israel, but there's no need to ignore it or make irrelevant statements about the difference between Arabs and Pakistanis.

 

I can't speak to the motives of Indonesians, but they're not exactly coming over here to blow up our nightclubs in the States. Perhaps they don't like Westerners bringing corruption to their country. If we left them alone, they would likely leave us alone as well.

[3rdnlng]

So you don't really know what you're bitching about, you just know you hate the team that's currently in office.

 

 

Frenkle, that makes no sense whatsoever. Was I, in this thread, saying anything about hating this administration? I simply was trying to convey to the idiots like you out there (thanks for the use of that word, Tom) that I'd like to see our governments investigative ability enhanced if it would make us safer. I qualified that with something like I'll take it on a case-by-case basis. Your feeble attempt to put words in my mouth and twist what I was saying is typical of you as a weak little liberal pu$$y that tries to change the argument when you can't win it.

[Gene Frenkle]

Frenkle, that makes no sense whatsoever. Was I, in this thread, saying anything about hating this administration? I simply was trying to convey to the idiots like you out there (thanks for the use of that word, Tom) that I'd like to see our governments investigative ability enhanced if it would make us safer. I qualified that with something like I'll take it on a case-by-case basis. Your feeble attempt to put words in my mouth and twist what I was saying is typical of you as a weak little liberal pu$$y that tries to change the argument when you can't win it.

To paraphrase, you said you don't know what they do or how they might improve what they do, but you would like to see some changes. No? I didn't mean to misinterpret what you wrote.

[3rdnlng]

To paraphrase, you said you don't know what they do or how they might improve what they do, but you would like to see some changes. No? I didn't mean to misinterpret what you wrote.

 

So, now you are going to paraphrase my statements in order to twist them? You need to improve your reading comprehension or your intellectual honesty. Assmudgeonry at its finest.

[GG]

Sure, sure, whatever. I don't even remotely care about the difference. The fact is that Muslims in the Middle East hate us first and foremost because we support Israel. I'm not saying we shouldn't support Israel, but there's no need to ignore it or make irrelevant statements about the difference between Arabs and Pakistanis.

 

I can't speak to the motives of Indonesians, but they're not exactly coming over here to blow up our nightclubs in the States. Perhaps they don't like Westerners bringing corruption to their country. If we left them alone, they would likely leave us alone as well.

 

So it doesn't matter whether Asians are Arabs, as long as it's ok for them to hate Israel and by extension US, and by extension blow up Spain & UK?

 

Does your logical progression lead you to question why is it that Muslims are upset that Indonesia is being invaded by Westerners, yet other developing countries welcome westerners? Are Chechens also teed off at US/Israel ties that they blow up Moscow subways?

 

A naturalized Pakistani is mad that a Jewish boss fired him, so the natural reaction is to blow up Times Square?

 

And what exactly do you mean "leave them alone?"

[3rdnlng]

So it doesn't matter whether Asians are Arabs, as long as it's ok for them to hate Israel and by extension US, and by extension blow up Spain & UK?

 

Does your logical progression lead you to question why is it that Muslims are upset that Indonesia is being invaded by Westerners, yet other developing countries welcome westerners? Are Chechens also teed off at US/Israel ties that they blow up Moscow subways?

 

A naturalized Pakistani is mad that a Jewish boss fired him, so the natural reaction is to blow up Times Square?

 

And what exactly do you mean "leave them alone?"

 

Somehow they just don't get the fact that they feel it is not only their right but their duty to kill infidel westerners.

[Magox]

I carry a guy with a gun he calls his gat.

That was actually kinda funny.

[Alaska Darin]

How's this for an exercise, of all the foreign lands that you've been in thanks to US Gov't sticking its nose everywhere, have you been met with outright hatred everywhere?

In the places I've been where we've bombed the !@#$ing crap out of the locals and killed some family members, I'd say it's pretty equal. There's a similar percentage of the population that hates us just about everywhere I've been. The good thing is most of them aren't desperate (or indoctrinated) enough to do anything about it. It's more luck of apathy than anything.

Asked another way, why haven't we seen any plots by Japanese, Germans, Vietnamese, Argentinians, El Salvadorians, Haitians, Panamanians, Nicaraguans, Brazilians, Cubans, or Serbians to blow up NYC sidewalks? Hell, I'm not aware of any plans by Iraqis to conduct jihad in the US, even though they probably have very good reason to do so.

Does this mean Iraqis aren't Muslims? And just because you "aren't aware" of anything doesn't mean much. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by comparing those places to the tardfest that is the Middle East. It's completely irrational.

While it's convenient to blame US imperialism for the cause of the jihad, it's ignorant to dismiss the true foundation of radical Islamism and why it's different than anything else that the world has faced in its history. It's about time that people are waking up to the Muslim Brotherhood and its roots.

No, what's convenient is to ignore an obvious trigger in favor of "they just hate us", especially since US imperialism isn't "the" cause of anything - that's an oversimplification and you know it. No one has to wake up to anything other than "what goes around, comes around". You do a bunch of bad **** over a long period of time, eventually you're going to get your turn having bad **** tossed at you. Sometimes the tool is going to be terrorism. Sometimes it's going to be done by religious radicals who are able to sway people who are easily indoctrinated because their whole life is basically a giant pile of ****. Sometimes it's going to be for nothing more than the ridiculous promise of paradise at the end of the rainbow.

 

Religion has long been the thing people hide behind to accomplish an end. This is no different. Everyone pretend your flying spaghetti monster is somehow better.

[Alaska Darin]

Do you remember the televised outpouring of pure joy in Palestine when the Twin Towers went down? Those people were dancing in the street.

Why would you expect a different response? For years those people have been given pretty much one set of facts. They regurgitate them over and over again, in much the same way that "they hate us because we have stuff" garbage that Hannity and company hide behind.

 

Ever watch a family member die for no good reason? What would your reaction be? What was your reaction when the U.S. started bombing the !@#$ out of Iraq and Afghanistan? Were you remorseful?

They are our enemy and not because of our actions, but because of who we are. This is a clash of civilizations and religions.

Sure it is. I just know you're ready to sign up and fight for the Church of the United States. Because Jesus would want you to.

It is not about our arrogance or meddling as you and Obama might claim. It is about them wanting us to convert or die. Therefore there is no compromising or appeasement. The sooner we come to that realization the better off (safer) we will be.

Horseshit. It's about oil. The very second oil doesn't matter, we pick up our toys and go home and no one gives a flying !@#$ing leap what goes on over there. Forever.

[Alaska Darin]

This is another weak response. You're "too lazy" to spend the time to understand why those other countries have been attacked? Fine. I'll give you the answer; it is because they are "Westerners" and "Infidels". This happens to be my own opinion based on observation and using my brain. It is not based on your leftist catch-all phrase that invariably includes references to "overly regurgitated and intellectually bankrupt arguments". I'll be glad to have a well thought out discussion with you but if you're going to argue like Conner or pBills I won't waste my time.

I'm lazy but you actually think that's an intelligent response? Yep, the world's just that simple.

[John Adams]

I'm lazy but you actually think that's an intelligent response? Yep, the world's just that simple.

 

This is one of those times I'm to exhausted to play whack-a-mole. Thank you for handling the mallet.

[Andrew in CA]

Well, you would be wrong then. That was a response to my statement that a significant amount of the Muslim population regard U.S. citizens as "infidels" and believe we deserve to die? Somehow I thought you were better than that. That was just a weak and dumbass response.

 

Do you remember the televised outpouring of pure joy in Palestine when the Twin Towers went down? Those people were dancing in the street. They are our enemy and not because of our actions, but because of who we are. This is a clash of civilizations and religions. It is not about our arrogance or meddling as you and Obama might claim. It is about them wanting us to convert or die. Therefore there is no compromising or appeasement. The sooner we come to that realization the better off (safer) we will be.

They want us to convert? I never heard that ultimatum. Pretty sure a few Muslims went down in 9/11 too. Why were they not spared if they won't kill other Muslims?

[GG]

In the places I've been where we've bombed the !@#$ing crap out of the locals and killed some family members, I'd say it's pretty equal. There's a similar percentage of the population that hates us just about everywhere I've been. The good thing is most of them aren't desperate (or indoctrinated) enough to do anything about it. It's more luck of apathy than anything.

 

And it would be expected that you'd be hated in place where you're killing their family members. But it's not expected in a place where you simply live as an expat, go to work, improve their infrastructure, visit as a tourist or conduct basic trade.

 

So based on that, there's obviously something different.

 

Does this mean Iraqis aren't Muslims? And just because you "aren't aware" of anything doesn't mean much. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by comparing those places to the tardfest that is the Middle East. It's completely irrational.

 

As per above, Iraqis would have the biggest reason to cause a sh--storm in the US, yet they don't. The point is that US imperilism has done some crappy things in many places, but over all it's done far more good than it has done bad. Yet in none of those instances where US crapped on the population, the blowback was terrorism.

 

So based on that, there's obviously something different.

 

No, what's convenient is to ignore an obvious trigger in favor of "they just hate us", especially since US imperialism isn't "the" cause of anything - that's an oversimplification and you know it. No one has to wake up to anything other than "what goes around, comes around". You do a bunch of bad **** over a long period of time, eventually you're going to get your turn having bad **** tossed at you. Sometimes the tool is going to be terrorism. Sometimes it's going to be done by religious radicals who are able to sway people who are easily indoctrinated because their whole life is basically a giant pile of ****. Sometimes it's going to be for nothing more than the ridiculous promise of paradise at the end of the rainbow.

 

Religion has long been the thing people hide behind to accomplish an end. This is no different. Everyone pretend your flying spaghetti monster is somehow better.

 

My comments were directed at the simplistic comment that if US stopped supporting Israel that radical Islamic terrorism that's directed at US would stop. I think I called the poster naive, and his comments reinforce that.

[DC Tom]

Why would you expect a different response? For years those people have been given pretty much one set of facts. They regurgitate them over and over again, in much the same way that "they hate us because we have stuff" garbage that Hannity and company hide behind.

 

For that matter, why would anyone expect TV crews to film Palestinians in shock over it? Our media feeds our preconceived notions as much as their media does theirs.

[3rdnlng]

For that matter, why would anyone expect TV crews to film Palestinians in shock over it? Our media feeds our preconceived notions as much as their media does theirs.

 

I'm responding to more than just you. For me, who has a job, it's late. I have a fair amount of appointments tomorrow but if I can find the time, this should be fun. BTW, DC I expected more from you than that...looking for a word, but I guess"crap" will do.

[OCinBuffalo]

About epidemics of supermarkets turning into shooting galleries is unwaranted. It is obvious you have never carried a guy.

Idiot assumptions are great. I have carried both guys and weapons. Next.

Personally, when I am carrying a weapon, I am much more careful to avoid confrontation. It still lurks in your mind that murder is 25 to life, as a matter of fact it is more in your mind when you do have a piece on you, well speaking for myself anyway.

This mindset implies training. All of us who have weapons training are careful. You are not special in this regard. My concern centers on those who have not been properly trained. "More guns" implies more people who haven't been trained on carrying weapons properly, never mind how to use them. That's not a good plan.

If more people were given the right to carry weapons, everyone would still not choose to carry.

Then...why bother with any of this?

It is not as if we would mandate gats. What it would do is make any would be terrorist a little less likely to try and pull that crap in the United States knowing there could be a plane full of DE .50's in his face. More freedom, more responsibility. That has always been the answer to fix things.

Perhaps but again, without mandatory training, "More guns" could also mean more holes in airplane cabins due to nothing more sinister than accidents.

We keep relying in your method of government reliance, we will continue to weaken our nation.

I would have no problem with your plan if REAL training, not a 2 hour course, and repetitive certification(like CPR) was required in order to carry a weapon on a plane. But, even with training, there are 2 types of people in this world: those that will pull the trigger and those that won't. The ones that won't become a cone, and make their weapon available to baddies that will take it from them.

 

I would rather rely on trained people than untrained, and I certainly don't support arming cowards.

[3rdnlng]

They want us to convert? I never heard that ultimatum. Pretty sure a few Muslims went down in 9/11 too. Why were they not spared if they won't kill other Muslims?

 

Yes Andrew, a faction of the Islamic fundamentalists want us to convert to the "one true faith". If we don't, they consider us "infidels" and it is their right and duty to kills us. Is this news to you? Who said they won't kill other Muslims? They do it all the time in both Iraq and Afghanistan in order to meet their own political or strategic goals.

[3rdnlng]

For that matter, why would anyone expect TV crews to film Palestinians in shock over it? Our media feeds our preconceived notions as much as their media does theirs.

C'mon Tom. That's just a little too glib of a response. There certainly may have been even a majority of Palestinians in shock over it, but even you must admit that a substantial amount of Palestinians were more than joyful. Those are the people that think it is a good thing to kill westerners. A small percentage of them would actually act on it. Preconceived notions? My preconceived notion is that a group of Islamic terrorists wants to kill as many westerners as possible. I wonder where I got that from?

[3rdnlng]

This is one of those times I'm to exhausted to play whack-a-mole. Thank you for handling the mallet.

 

Ah, Mr. ACLU gets his little proclamation from his pedestal in, eh? When you're playing the holier than thou card you should make sure your grammar & spelling doesn't give you away.