went to a Packers Message board

[Celtic_soulja]

Cornell Green gave up five sacks, was terrible in pass blocking, and took a load of penalties. Oakland was glad to see him leave. What are you talking about?

 

link?

 

SACKS ALLOWED, TEAM BY TEAM

Player Team Sacks Allowed Median Time Player Team Sacks Allowed Median Time

Levi Brown ARI 6 2.8 Ronnie Brown MIA 2 2.65

Mike Gandy ARI 5 2.5 Donald Thomas MIA 2 2.8

Tim Hightower ARI 1 2.7 Anthony Fasano MIA 1.5 2.5

Reggie Wells ARI 1 3.1 Justin Smiley MIA 1 3

Deuce Lutui ARI 1 3.3 Bryant McKinnie MIN 4 3.5

Sam Baker ATL 4 3.25 Phil Loadholt MIN 3 3.5

Harvey Dahl ATL 3 2.6 Naufahu Tahi MIN 2 2.5

Tyson Clabo ATL 1 2.6 John Sullivan MIN 2 2.6

Chris Chester BAL 4 2.7 Chester Taylor MIN 1 2.1

Michael Oher BAL 3 2.2 Steve Hutchinson MIN 1 2.7

Jared Gaither BAL 2 3 Nick Kaczur NE 2 2.55

Matt Birk BAL 1.5 3.3 Stephen Neal NE 2 3.05

Ben Grubbs BAL 1 2.8 Todd Light NE 2 3.15

Omar Gaither BAL 1 2.8 Logan Mankins NE 1.5 2.9

Ray Rice BAL 1 3.5 Dan Koppen NE 1.5 3.1

Demetrius Bell BUF 4 2.55 Sebastian Vollmer NE 1 3.7

Jonathan Scott BUF 3.5 2.7 Jermon Bushrod NO 4.5 2.6

Eric Wood BUF 3 2.9 Jon Stinchcomb NO 3.5 3

Kirk Chambers BUF 2.5 2.55 Reggie Bush NO 1 2.2

Fred Jackson BUF 2 3 Jahri Evans NO 1 2.3

Geoff Hangartner BUF 1.5 2.4 Carl Nicks NO 1 3.3

Brad Butler BUF 1 3.3 Kareem McKenzie NYG 3 3.3

Derek Fine BUF 0.5 2.3 David Diehl NYG 2 2.7

Jordan Gross CAR 7 2.6 Rich Seubert NYG 2 3

Jeff Otah CAR 3 2.9 Chris Snee NYG 1.5 2.8

Travelle Wharton CAR 3 3.1 Shaun O'Hara NYG 0.5 2.7

Keydrick Vincent CAR 1 2.3 Alan Faneca NYJ 4 2.9

Ryan Kalil CAR 1 3.5 D'Brikishaw Ferguson NYJ 1.5 3.1

Chris Williams CHI 3.5 3.6 Damien Woody NYJ 1 2.6

Greg Olsen CHI 2 2.9 Tony Richardson NYJ 1 4

Garrett Wolfe CHI 2 3.3 Mario Henderson OAK 4.5 2.7

Orlando Pace CHI 2 3.6 Erik Pears OAK 4 2.4

Matt Forte CHI 1 2.4 Cooper Carlisle OAK 3 2.8

Roberto Garza CHI 1 2.8 Chris Morris OAK 2 2.55

Frank Omiyale CHI 0.5 3.6 Khalif Barnes OAK 2 3.45

Anthony Collins CIN 3 2.3 Zach Miller OAK 1 2.2

Andrew Whitworth CIN 3 3.6 Michael Bush OAK 1 2.8

Dennis Roland CIN 2 3.2 Cornell Green OAK 1 3.2

Cedric Benson CIN 1 1.9 Gary Russell OAK 1 3.3

Kyle Cook CIN 1 3.2 Tony Stewart OAK 1 3.3

Joe Thomas CLE 4 3 Justin Fargas OAK 0.5 2.7

Floyd Womack CLE 3.5 2.7 Jason Peters PHI 4 2.4

John St. Clair CLE 3.5 2.7 Stacy Andrews PHI 3 3.1

Kyle Williams CLE 3 2.5 Winston Justice PHI 3 3.7

Jerome Harrison CLE 1.5 1.9 Jamaal Jackson PHI 1.5 2.1

Hank Fraley CLE 1 2 Brent Celek PHI 1 2.6

Flozell Adams DAL 4 3.05 Max Jean-Gilles PHI 1 2.6

Leonard Davis DAL 2 2.3 King Dunlap PHI 1 2.8

Deon Anderson DAL 2 3.15 LeSean McCoy PHI 1 3.1

Felix Jones DAL 1 2.2 Todd Herremans PHI 1 3.2

Kyle Kozier DAL 1 2.4 Nick Cole PHI 0.5 3.3

Marc Colombo DAL 1 2.4 Max Starks PIT 4.5 3.7

Jason Witten DAL 1 3.1 Chris Kemoeatu PIT 3.5 2.7

Ben Hamilton DEN 2.5 3.4 Rashard Mendenhall PIT 3 3.3

Ryan Harris DEN 2.4 3.35 Justin Hartwig PIT 2.5 2.7

Chris Kuper DEN 2 2.35 Trai Essex PIT 2 3.05

Ryan Clady DEN 2 3 Heath Miller PIT 1.5 4.2

Knowshown Moreno DEN 1 1.9 Matt Spaeth PIT 1 2.6

Corell Buckhalter DEN 1 2.4 Jeromey Clary SD 4.5 2.8

Russ Hochstein DEN 1 2.8 Marcus McNeil SD 4 2.55

Casey Wiegmann DEN 1 3.8 Louis Vasquez SD 1.5 2.3

Jeff Backus DET 4.5 2.5 Brandon Manumaleuna SD 1 2.2

Gosder Cherilus DET 4 2.85 Scott Mruckowski SD 1 2.4

Dominic Raiola DET 2 3.25 Brandyn Dombroski SD 1 2.7

Will Heller DET 2 3.25 Kris Dielman SD 1 3.4

Daniel Loper DET 2 3.4 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 0.5 3

Jon Jansen DET 1.5 3.9 Nick Hardwick SD 0.5 3.8

Stephen Peterman DET 1 2.3 Julius Jones SEA 4 2

Aaron Brown DET 1 2.7 Ray Willis SEA 3 2.9

Kevin Smith DET 1 2.7 Brandon Frye SEA 2 2.35

Brandon Pettigrew DET 1 3 Damion McIntosh SEA 1 2

Allen Barbre GB 7 2.6 Steve Vallos SEA 1 2.3

Daryn Colledge GB 7 2.9 Max Unger SEA 1 2.8

T.J. Lang GB 5 2.4 Chris Spencer SEA 1 3.9

Chad Clifton GB 2.5 3 Adam Snyder SF 7 2.6

Scott Wells GB 2 2.65 Chilo Rachal SF 3 2.1

Jason Spitz GB 2 2.95 Joe Staley SF 3 2.6

Donald Lee GB 1.5 3.1 Tony Pashos SF 3 2.6

Korey Hall GB 1 3.2 Frank Gore SF 2 2.75

Ryan Grant GB 1 4.2 Eric Heitmann SF 2 3.3

Duane Brown HOU 7 3.6 Vernon Davis SF 1 2.3

Kasey Studdard HOU 2 4 David Bass SF 1 2.8

Chester Pitts HOU 1 1.6 Richie Incognito STL 2.5 2.3

Eric Winston HOU 1 2.7 Jason Smith STL 2 2.05

Kevin Walter HOU 1 3.1 Steven Jackson STL 2 2.35

Mike Brisiel HOU 1 4 Alex Barron STL 2 3.05

Charlie Johnson IND 2 2.65 Jason Brown STL 1.5 2.3

Mike Pollack IND 2 2.65 Kenneth Darby STL 1 1.9

Joseph Addai IND 1 2.2 Adam Goldberg STL 1 2.6

Ryan Lilja IND 1 2.3 Jacob Bell STL 1 3

Jeff Saturday IND 1 3.8 Jeremy Trueblood TB 3 2.7

Eugene Monroe JAX 4 2.5 Donald Penn TB 3 3.1

Eben Britton JAX 4 3.05 Davin Joseph TB 2 3.6

Tra Thomas JAX 3 2.5 Cadillac Williams TB 1 1.8

Maurice Williams JAX 1 2.9 Jeremy Zuttah TB 1 2.4

Jordan Black JAX 1 3.2 John Gilmore TB 1 2.4

Vince Manuwai JAX 1 3.2 Jeff Faine TB 1 2.5

Greg Jones JAX 0.5 2.6 Michael Roos TEN 3 2.6

Maurice Jones-Drew JAX 0.5 2.6 Chris Johnson TEN 1 2.7

Sean Ryan KC 5 2.6 Jake Scott TEN 0.5 3

Wade Smith KC 4 2.65 Stephon Heyer WAS 6.5 2.8

Branden Albert KC 3.5 2.8 Mike Sellers WAS 3 2.6

Larry Johnson KC 3 2.3 Mike Williams WAS 2.5 2.5

Mike Goff KC 3 2.5 Chris Samuels WAS 2.5 3.4

Ryan O'Callagahan KC 2 2.6 Fred Davis WAS 2 2.55

Andy Alleman KC 1 2.9 D'Anthony Batiste WAS 1 2.2

Jake O'Connell KC 1 3.1 Ladell Betts WAS 1 2.2

Brian Waters KC 0.5 3 Mark Mason WAS 1 2.4

Lousaka Polite MIA 4 2.2 Casey Rabach WAS 1 2.5

Jake Long MIA 4 3 Chad Rinehart WAS 1 3

Vernon Carey MIA 2 2.15 Derrick Dockery WAS 0.5 2.3

 

Those are what I got for statistics....

[PS 56]

The first thing I do is turn the sound off

 

Is there some rule that says every fifth word in a rap video has to be "!@#$"?

 

You forgot "m***********", B**** and H*. sigh, I just don't get it.

[PS 56]

Gangster rap isn't a bad thing, haven't you heard? It's high culture that links people to their roots. Just pick up a copy of "Rolling Stone" and you'll learn.

 

Jello Biafra had it right in "Holiday in Cambodia."

 

Easy stomach....

[John from Riverside]

The thing that I dont understand is why do you give up on a 2nd round pick QB after only one year

 

I dont care if he went out and puked before he got on the field even in practice every day......that is not how you develop QB talent if you thought enough of him to draft him in the 2nd round then you gotta give him some time.

 

The fact is sometimes it takes QBs a while....and Brohm looked GREAT in college (I actually wanted to take him with our 1st pick at one point)

 

He may have been better off if he had either been taken as a 1st rounder.....because his team wouldnt have given up on him so quickly. QB's dont just "lose it" when they get to the NFL....the game just gets faster...it takes time and reps for the game to slow down....and it takes more time for some then it does others

[shoretalk]

and asked them their thoughts on Brian Brohm. This is what they said. I posted this on buffalobills.com and I thought I would put it on here.

http://www.packerforum.com/packer-fan-foru...rian-brohm.html

[BillsVet]

The thing that I dont understand is why do you give up on a 2nd round pick QB after only one year

 

Brohm was placed on the PS his 2nd season, thereby exposing him to any team that wanted to add him to the active roster. If GB did this, it's safe to say he didn't make much progress from 2008 to 2009. Basically, a well-respected team led by a decent HC in McCarthy and good GM in Ted Thompson said he's not good enough. I'd take their word over anyone.

[VABills]

Brohm was placed on the PS his 2nd season, thereby exposing him to any team that wanted to add him to the active roster. If GB did this, it's safe to say he didn't make much progress from 2008 to 2009. Basically, a well-respected team led by a decent HC in McCarthy and good GM in Ted Thompson said he's not good enough. I'd take their word over anyone.

I posted an article about Flynn somewhere. basically the article said Flynn had learned was a leader and picked up the offense. Brohm couldn't learn, had no desire really, no leadership skills and a terrible arm.

[Alphadawg7]

Your adoration for Brohm is known, but this post is a classic case of spin.

 

Those fans don't know much about him? They know more than we do.

Others talk about him as if he was there for more than 1.5 years? They did get to see him for 2 training camps, and that's 2 more than we got see from him here.

 

 

 

"He has been so far off the radar, even in GB because of the emergence of Rodgers ..."

Are you honestly trying to stay that GB literally FORGOT about Brohm because Rodgers panned out? Seriously?

But they paid attention to the seventh round pick Flynn?

 

"NO ONE, not even the GB Packers staff, really knows where he is at in his development."

"In fact, our staff is about the only people who can really say for sure if the kid is progressing or not as they have seen him how he is now in practice."

 

Oh, come on. Brohm spent 2 training camps in GB, and the coaches there got a first hand view of how the kid played in preseason. They know what plays were called, and they know he reacted during those plays.

But only the Buffalo staff knows anything about him because of some OTA's?

Let's see how he reacts when the pads are on, and they are hitting.

Having him running around in shorts playing catch with the WR won't tell the staff a whole lot regarding his ability to play during a game.

 

 

 

Yeah, the Bills were so confident with those 3 they contacted the Eagles about trading for McNabb.

 

I like Brohm (at this point) because he is not Edwards or Fitzpatrick, but I think this is Brohm's last chance.

Either he stands up and shows the Bills he CAN lead this team* forward, or I expect the Bills will be looking for a QB next off season.

 

*Winning the QB battle will not cut it. He needs to play like a franchise QB.

 

 

LMAO at you comparing McNabb to this situation...he would be an upgrade to 75% of the teams in the NFL...no one is saying they are so content with our guys that they would pass up a top 10 QB in this league.

 

As far as what I said about the fans...I still stand by it. There are several (and I only named a couple) instances that are clear that they didnt pay that much attention to him. And YES, he was off the Radar...Brohm was an inusrance policy for Rodgers and was NEVER going to be given any chance to start his rookie year. It was always going to be Rodgers as he had 3 years to learn the system. Brohm, who didnt adjust to the speed as quickly as Flynn, spent most of his time with the 3rd unit and PS in GB and barely saw the field at all.

 

And, this crap about how the fans got to see him for 2 training camps...what are you talking about...none of them saw him in training camp, all they got to see was the very limited duty in preseason.

 

And as far as your so called boast about GB knowing more about where Brohm is RIGHT NOW...how does that even make sense? They have NO IDEA how he has progressed to this point...he hasnt been with the players who play since last training camp as he went onto the PS after that. They have no idea, especially the fans there, where Brohm is right now...clearly, he is further along then he was there as our staff deems him worthy of an open QB competition and a chance to start (so much so that we continuously passed on QB's with potential in the draft).

[Chicago_Mike]

Ha...it's the next set of lines that are the real mustard.

 

i know, i know... trying to be pc here.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

i know, i know... trying to be pc here.

 

 

PC is over-rated.

[2003Contenders]

I used to live with a die hard packer fan and this is why I have no faith in Brohm....he has shown nothing but deer in the headlights look everytime he has been on an NFL field...preaseason or regular season. Everyone around here loves him because he was a second round pick...that means jack shizz

 

Before finally being handed the reigns in 2008, Aaron Rodgers had that same look. It takes some guys a few years to put it all together, especially in a somewhat complicated offense like the Packers run. Chan's offense figures to be far less complicated -- remember that he devised a system which boy genius Kordell Stewart actually ran effectively back in Pittsburgh.

[peteski]

Before finally being handed the reigns in 2008, Aaron Rodgers had that same look. It takes some guys a few years to put it all together, especially in a somewhat complicated offense like the Packers run. Chan's offense figures to be far less complicated -- remember that he devised a system which boy genius Kordell Stewart actually ran effectively back in Pittsburgh.

I want Brohm to start but the thing is we don't really have time to develop a Qb. We need one now. Hopefully he can do it.

[truth on hold]

How exactly did the Packers fans see any of him when he was beat out by another guy in camp and sent packing to the practice squad?

[Alphadawg7]

I want Brohm to start but the thing is we don't really have time to develop a Qb. We need one now. Hopefully he can do it.

 

Not quite sure what you mean by this...I mean who ever has time to develop a QB in todays win now NFL? And, this is a rebuilding team under a new regime, if there ever was a text book example of when to develop a QB, then the 2010 Bills would be that example.

 

We are a young team across the board, have a new regime, have made the playoffs in forever, and lots of young players with promise who have yet to really get on the field to show what they can do...this is the perfect year to try and develop a QB...

[peteski]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I guess you are right. I just want the Bills to win now. I will never give up on this team but I want my team to be a team that does something, not a team that all my friends make fun of.

[Cynical]

How exactly did the Packers fans see any of him when he was beat out by another guy in camp and sent packing to the practice squad?

 

It's called "preseason". He did start and play in some of those while in GB.

[Cynical]

LMAO at you comparing McNabb to this situation...he would be an upgrade to 75% of the teams in the NFL...no one is saying they are so content with our guys that they would pass up a top 10 QB in this league.

 

As far as what I said about the fans...I still stand by it. There are several (and I only named a couple) instances that are clear that they didnt pay that much attention to him. And YES, he was off the Radar...Brohm was an inusrance policy for Rodgers and was NEVER going to be given any chance to start his rookie year. It was always going to be Rodgers as he had 3 years to learn the system. Brohm, who didnt adjust to the speed as quickly as Flynn, spent most of his time with the 3rd unit and PS in GB and barely saw the field at all.

 

And, this crap about how the fans got to see him for 2 training camps...what are you talking about...none of them saw him in training camp, all they got to see was the very limited duty in preseason.

 

Which is ironic considering people on this board are judging Brohm (good and bad) based a on SINGLE game.

 

And as far as your so called boast about GB knowing more about where Brohm is RIGHT NOW...how does that even make sense? They have NO IDEA how he has progressed to this point...he hasnt been with the players who play since last training camp as he went onto the PS after that.

 

You do realize that the PS gets to practice with the regular team? So the GB coaching staff had seen this kid for 2 full off seasons, training camps, preseason, etc ..., and 1.5 years of practices during the regular season.

 

What does Chan and company have? Game film from the one time he played, and some OTAs. So yes, I do think the GB coaches know more about Brohm than Gailey (at this point) based on the simple fact Gailey has not done anything with Brohm yet.

 

They have no idea, especially the fans there, where Brohm is right now...clearly, he is further along then he was there as our staff deems him worthy of an open QB competition and a chance to start (so much so that we continuously passed on QB's with potential in the draft).

 

This last part says it all. You need to pay attention to Nix and Gailey more. They have consistently said they will not over pay to fill a position of need and that all the problems will not be fixed in one year.

 

Nix and Gailey are as confident about the current QB position as they are of the current LT position.

IIRC, they said both positions needed to be addressed.

[RealityCheck]

Brohm has one foot out the door already as an NFL player. For a team to scrap a second round pick that fast says a great deal about his performance in GB behind the scenes. Typically a healthy higher round pick that gets tossed after one year has work ethic and/or aptitude issues. Call it what you will but I see no evidence as to this guy being a diamond in the rough. Personally I don't see Chan game planning with the notion of dropping back and throwing it all over the field. Just a guess but I see more of a run/play action approach. If we can become effective with the run don't be surprised with taking shots deep off the play fakes on 1st down.

[reddogblitz]

this is the perfect year to try and develop a QB...

Isn't this what we've been doing for the last 5 seasons? Plug in the guy that gives us the best chance to win now (Fitz) and let's try to win more games than we lose this year.

 

I saw an NFL Films thing the other day and a guy was in the stands with a sign that read "We are on the 18th year of our 5 year rebuilding program". I can relate.

[truth on hold]

It's called "preseason". He did start and play in some of those while in GB.

How much of a guy can you see in preseason when he's not even seeing most of the snaps? How much can you really determine from preseason games for a brand new rookie? How many people really study preseason games all that much?

 

Those fans are just blabbing as if they really know something, when they don't.