Rob's House Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 The Bills were also one of the best defenses in opponents completion percentage and opponents passer rating. It's amazing how many times people INCORRECTLY ASSERT that the Bills pass defense was good only because the run defense was bad. The Bills pass defense was excellent, especially considering the mediocre pass rush. Largely thanks to the often dumped upon and highly unappreciated Aaron Schobel who consistently brought pressure and created opportunities for Williams, Stroud, and Kelsay. If he's back...Lights out.
BillsGuyInMalta Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Largely thanks to the often dumped upon and highly unappreciated Aaron Schobel who consistently brought pressure and created opportunities for Williams, Stroud, and Kelsay. If he's back...Lights out. I'm beginning to think the longer we hear nothing, the better the chance is that Schobel will return.
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I'm beginning to think the longer we hear nothing, the better the chance is that Schobel return. I think Aaron will likely find it difficult not to come back in the role as OLB where he can really shine. He, like any intelligent player on the team, was quite unhappy with the schemes we have used on defense the last few years. On a related note, I can't understand how people think we will only get 4 or 5 wins or less with this coaching staff and this defense. We HAVE to be improved against the run, even if it is the first year with a 3-4, and our pass defense will only get better with the young players more experienced and everyone healthy again. And the great thing is everyone in the league is totally discounting us so that we will sneak up on a lot of teams.
Jerry Jabber Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 OK a lot of concerns surround the offensive side of the ball our QB situation is one of the worst in the NFL, our O-line is one with huge concern, our WR's outside of Evans are unproven HOWEVER I have a very good feeling about our Defense. Our Secondary is really good (And they proved that last season) and we spent a lot of picks and resources to sure up the run D. OK our 3-4 is new but we have added a lot of players that fit our scheme. D-line DE- Dwan Edwards/Spencer Johnson OK Johnson was an undersized 4-3 DT but he was one of the better DT's last season in his limited role and the guy has the body type and skill set to be an effective guy off the bench. Edwards was a run-stuffer in Baltimore with an injury issue but if the guy can stay healthy he is a prototypical 3-4 DE who upgrades our Run D. Other DE- Stroud/Carrington Stroud is coming off a down year, he was suppose to be the anchor of the 4-3 and he just wasn't that so our Run D sucked as a result (Injuries to OLB and Poz also contributed). However Stroud at DE in a 3-4 doesn't really have to be the anchor he is in a less compromised position and can be effective in his new role. Carrington coming off the bench gives our D-line some depth at DE. NT- Troup and Kyle Williams are the anchors now if Williams can play at a higher weight and if Troup is as good as advertised we are looking decent at NT. Yes this is a concern if Troup under preforms and Williams can't convert to the 3-4 but going into this season I am much more confident in our D-line and its depth then last season. MLB- Poz and Davis are the starters Davis is a proven 3-4 MLB who is known as a run stuffer, Poz has the size to make the conversion but there is still a question of his conversion ability. Mitchell has the size to play the 3-4 MLB and gives us some depth at the position. OLB- This is were things get a little iffy right now Schobel and Maybin are the starters now both aren't 3-4 OLB's but Schobel is a proven pass rusher in a 4-3 and Maybin has the body type better suited for the system. Kelsay and Ellis don't inspire much confidence but both could prove effective as depth or as run down players. So our front 7 is deeper and bigger and we already have a good secondary with McKelvin returning to it. All in all our D should inspire some confidence. I agree with your assessment of the Bills D. IMO, the defense will be the strong point on the team this year.
Conch Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I am concerned that we did not draft any DB's or Safeties.
shoretalk Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 OK a lot of concerns surround the offensive side of the ball our QB situation is one of the worst in the NFL, our O-line is one with huge concern, our WR's outside of Evans are unproven HOWEVER I have a very good feeling about our Defense. Our Secondary is really good (And they proved that last season) and we spent a lot of picks and resources to sure up the run D. OK our 3-4 is new but we have added a lot of players that fit our scheme. D-line DE- Dwan Edwards/Spencer Johnson OK Johnson was an undersized 4-3 DT but he was one of the better DT's last season in his limited role and the guy has the body type and skill set to be an effective guy off the bench. Edwards was a run-stuffer in Baltimore with an injury issue but if the guy can stay healthy he is a prototypical 3-4 DE who upgrades our Run D. Other DE- Stroud/Carrington Stroud is coming off a down year, he was suppose to be the anchor of the 4-3 and he just wasn't that so our Run D sucked as a result (Injuries to OLB and Poz also contributed). However Stroud at DE in a 3-4 doesn't really have to be the anchor he is in a less compromised position and can be effective in his new role. Carrington coming off the bench gives our D-line some depth at DE. NT- Troup and Kyle Williams are the anchors now if Williams can play at a higher weight and if Troup is as good as advertised we are looking decent at NT. Yes this is a concern if Troup under preforms and Williams can't convert to the 3-4 but going into this season I am much more confident in our D-line and its depth then last season. MLB- Poz and Davis are the starters Davis is a proven 3-4 MLB who is known as a run stuffer, Poz has the size to make the conversion but there is still a question of his conversion ability. Mitchell has the size to play the 3-4 MLB and gives us some depth at the position. OLB- This is were things get a little iffy right now Schobel and Maybin are the starters now both aren't 3-4 OLB's but Schobel is a proven pass rusher in a 4-3 and Maybin has the body type better suited for the system. Kelsay and Ellis don't inspire much confidence but both could prove effective as depth or as run down players. So our front 7 is deeper and bigger and we already have a good secondary with McKelvin returning to it. All in all our D should inspire some confidence. The way our defense is being built it will provide Byrd and company with better opportunities to pick off those rushed passes ... I am feeling really good about our D!!! Williams is just a motor guy who will do well in any setting so I am not worried about his size and the more I see about Troup's ability to take up two blockers has me excited about the disruptions up front ... a key will obviously be our OLB's but between the draft and what we have ... things can only be better than last year. And, the stronger our D is the more time the offense will get on the field ...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 My take is the D should be better against run, and should generate more sacks and will surrender more big plays. Starting LB's should be Poz, Davis, Mitchell and Maybin or Schoebel. By mid year Moats and or Batton could be a regular contributor off the bench.
ntjacks79 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 OK a lot of concerns surround the offensive side of the ball our QB situation is one of the worst in the NFL, our O-line is one with huge concern, our WR's outside of Evans are unproven HOWEVER I have a very good feeling about our Defense. I was thinking much the same thing after the draft last Sunday. I LOVE what they did on Defense in the draft, although I admit you can't count on a defense of rookies. To me the Bills biggest challenge on D is that they will be in the 1st year of the 3-4 and probably still learning the defense as oppose to reacting. But beyond that, talent-wise, I see the Bills building a Ravens-type team. "Put a Hurt on you D" (especially if they become turnover focused) and a conservative, "take-advantage of what's given to you" O. Edwards can lead that type of offense, no matter the constant QB-bashing that goes on around here. Edwards failures are as much or more to do with the situations he was put in by the prior coaching staff as his ability. You add Spiller, and it supplements this type of O even more. If the OL can perform OK, and the D learns the 3-4 quickly enough, I think a lot of fans are going to be surprised. But, realistically, we could be 1-2 years away from realizing what I'm describing.
symbiant Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I'm beginning to think the longer we hear nothing, the better the chance is that Schobel will return. I think he's pulling a Favre and wants to skip as much of camp as possible
dgrid Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I am concerned that we did not draft any DB's or Safeties. fear not, we snagged some UDFA's for secondary: CB Stephan Virgil (Virginia Tech) CB John Destin (Tulsa) S Dominique Harris, Temple here's Buff Rumbling's complete UDFA reports: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/4/30/...g-reports-udfas actually, it would be awesome if one or more of these guys actually panned out, so we can continue to focus on non-DB draft picks in future.
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I like the D...with the scheme change I was originally shaky...the scheme is good, but we didn't have the right people for the scheme...I think in the offseason and draft we did enough revamping of the people that we should have good success this year on the defensive side of the ball...our run defense killed us last season...everyone could run against us...that will change, and our pass defense was good last season...so I think we definitely improve our chances on that side of the ball for this season... We got huge in the front seven and with the blitz styel 3-4 we should pressure the QB more...only questions left is on the edges...with Shobel/Maybin...if Shobel comes back AND is able to play OLB...or Maybin shows up...I believe we could have a top ten defense on our hands...we have a very solid down three and the inside backers are 100 tackle 3 sack guys...in a more attack based defense I say Poz could post 5 sacks and our OLB's if they are good enough are supposed to post double digits...again that's the question...but best case scenario we are posting a good 30-35 sacks this year on D with a much better run defense...I really am excited about our defense this year...GO BILLS
Lurker Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I think he's pulling a Favre and wants to skip as much of camp as possible Not likely with the switch to 3-4. He'll need as may reps as possible to acclimate to OLB. My guess is he's been waiting to see if the team's been moving forward, both through the draft via FA acquisitions, before deciding if it's worth it to come back. He's mainly tired of losing, like the fanbase, IMO.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 fear not, we snagged some UDFA's for secondary: CB Stephan Virgil (Virginia Tech) CB John Destin (Tulsa) S Dominique Harris, Temple here's Buff Rumbling's complete UDFA reports: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/4/30/...g-reports-udfas actually, it would be awesome if one or more of these guys actually panned out, so we can continue to focus on non-DB draft picks in future. McGee is still solid IMO but he is around 30 and may start slowing down a bit so I expect to see a 1-3 round pick on a DB next year...
metzelaars_lives Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I'm beginning to think the longer we hear nothing, the better the chance is that Schobel will return. Agreed. I also think that Kawika Mitchell starts over Davis whether he plays in or outside. I'm inclined to think he has a better chance of starting inside if Schobel comes back or outside if he doesn't. I think Davis was signed for depth but will see plenty of snaps as well. Then again, I'm sure one of them will tear their achilles in week 3 of the preseason and be out for the year and Ellison will end up starting...
VADC Bills Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 OK a lot of concerns surround the offensive side of the ball our QB situation is one of the worst in the NFL, our O-line is one with huge concern, our WR's outside of Evans are unproven HOWEVER I have a very good feeling about our Defense. Our Secondary is really good (And they proved that last season) and we spent a lot of picks and resources to sure up the run D. OK our 3-4 is new but we have added a lot of players that fit our scheme. D-line DE- Dwan Edwards/Spencer Johnson OK Johnson was an undersized 4-3 DT but he was one of the better DT's last season in his limited role and the guy has the body type and skill set to be an effective guy off the bench. Edwards was a run-stuffer in Baltimore with an injury issue but if the guy can stay healthy he is a prototypical 3-4 DE who upgrades our Run D. Other DE- Stroud/Carrington Stroud is coming off a down year, he was suppose to be the anchor of the 4-3 and he just wasn't that so our Run D sucked as a result (Injuries to OLB and Poz also contributed). However Stroud at DE in a 3-4 doesn't really have to be the anchor he is in a less compromised position and can be effective in his new role. Carrington coming off the bench gives our D-line some depth at DE. NT- Troup and Kyle Williams are the anchors now if Williams can play at a higher weight and if Troup is as good as advertised we are looking decent at NT. Yes this is a concern if Troup under preforms and Williams can't convert to the 3-4 but going into this season I am much more confident in our D-line and its depth then last season. MLB- Poz and Davis are the starters Davis is a proven 3-4 MLB who is known as a run stuffer, Poz has the size to make the conversion but there is still a question of his conversion ability. Mitchell has the size to play the 3-4 MLB and gives us some depth at the position. OLB- This is were things get a little iffy right now Schobel and Maybin are the starters now both aren't 3-4 OLB's but Schobel is a proven pass rusher in a 4-3 and Maybin has the body type better suited for the system. Kelsay and Ellis don't inspire much confidence but both could prove effective as depth or as run down players. So our front 7 is deeper and bigger and we already have a good secondary with McKelvin returning to it. All in all our D should inspire some confidence. I think we will see improvement as the season goes on but there are a lot of reaches switching to a new defensive scheme. Last year when the season ended I felt that our front 7 was a huge liability. I thought it was more of a talent issue than scheme. Our line was too small and would get dominated by the fourth quarter. Dwan Edwards will be a huge addition here, I think Carrington could make a difference as well. Kyle Williams is not a nose that can control the middle and Nix knows that. Troup adds size. Our line has gotten bigger which is good. Our LB's were awful. Poz had trouble reading plays, shedding blocks and being dominated at the point of impact often making tackles 3-4 yard after the initial hit. Ellison is too small but as much as I hate to say he outperformed Mitchell and Poz before his injury. Mitchell is the most versitile LB that we had. He has the best instincts for the game but couldn't stay healthy. All 3 starters were injured but honestly they weren't that good when they were healthy. What will be different this year. Will a larger DL allow the LB's to make more plays...maybe but how will it make Poz stronger at the point of impact and not consistantly run himself out of the play. How will it make Ellison bigger and stronger. Will Maybin contribute and will he honestly be better than Ellison because I have seen nothing from him so far. Love Schobel but will he be around? What type of 3-4 will we play. Will we be aggressive like Pittsburgh or a passive Ted Cotrell type of 3-4. Will our offense be able to keep our defense off of the field? I think we have made some good moves getting bigger and stronger but there are still many questions that need to be answered regarding the talent that we have.
SuperKillerRobots Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Let's look at it another way, in terms of experience, and in terms of who is replacing who. DE: From Kelsay to Dwan Edwards?. This has to be a positive. Edwards has 3 - 4 experience at the position and is an upgrade from Kelsay. Kelsay, though, was strong against the run, he just couldn't rush the passer particularly well. However, he most likely got more sacks than Edwards will. In five years, Edwards has 2.0 total sacks, one of which was last year. Kelsay has 22.0 in seven years, five of which came last year. Clearly we lose out completely in sacks, but should get a bit better at defending the run. A positive, but not a huge one due to losing the sacks. Other DE: Schobel to Marcus Stroud/Carrington. This is a major step back in both ways. Stroud has no experience in the 3 - 4. Carrington, though strong, is a rookie. Therefore there's no way to be sure he can actually play the position. I'm guessing that perhaps he can, but lit's only a guess. And clearly he's NOT going to bring anything even vaguely close to the sacks that Schobel brought. Completel inexperience and relative inability to get sacks. This is a major negative, not surprising as Schobel was our best defensive player last year in the front seven. NT: Stroud or Kyle Williams (I'm saying it was Kyle Williams as a 1 - tackle is a bit more similar to NT) to Troup on running downs and Kyle Williams on passing downs. A clear negative. Troup has no pro experience whatsoever. And it usually takes defensive linemen and defensive tackles a year or two at least to get NFL strong and to get used to the position and the pounding and the much longer season. The passing game comparison is obviously a tie ... both will be Kyle Williams against the pass. Williams has eight sacks in 4 years, 4 of which he got last sesason. On the upside, he should be fresher playing less. On the up side, he will be playing a position he is less physically suited for. I call this a wash. Against the run, though, Last year's Kyle Williams was simply much better than the rookie Troup is likely to be. Looking down the road a couple of years and if Nix made a good pick, Troup should be much better. Not as a rookie. Not even close. ROLB: Chris Draft to who? Schobel looks more and more like he's retiring. But if he isn't, he will be playing a position he has zero experience at. We can all hope that Maybin or Moats or Batten or Coleman or somebody plays well. That's all it will be is hope. These guys are either rookies or guys with no experience at the position whatsoever. This is a clear move downwards. Not that Draft was great, but he wasn't a weakness last year at all, and this year the only thing we have to replace him is pure hope. RILB: Marcus Stroud to Posluszny. We lose one position (RDT) in the line and gain one in the linebackers. Therefore Poz replaces Stroud. I call this a wash. Both are strong players. It could even be a slight upgrade because Stroud, playing injured last year, wasn't his usual terrific self. We lose about 60 pounds of beef on this trade, but I think this is a wash. LILB: Kawika Mitchell to Kawika Mitchell/Andra Davis. I'm going to call this one a very slight upgrade, though it's really probably a wash. Davis is a journeyman and Kawika is Kawika, a solid vet playing a new position in a new scheme. But Davis at least has 3 - 4 experience, and that should be a help. LOLB: Bryan Scott/ Keith Ellison to who? Bryan Scott? Chris Ellis? Keith Ellison? Nic Harris? Ashlee Palmer? This is a negative. Ellison wasn't very physical, but he was smart and got to the places he was supposed to be. He was also decent at coverage. Scott was much better than any of us had a right to expect. He was better than Ellison, IMHO. The new guys are either guys who have never been NFL-quality starters or they're rookies or wannabes. How would Ellis handle covering running backs? Most of last year's guys are simply too small to successfully play 3-4 OLB. Two positives, four negatives and one wash. This year's defense simply isn't going to be as good. Looking down the road, you definitely can see signs of light, but this year ... forget about it. Let's look at one more thing, the most important positions in each defense. In the 4 - 3 variant we mostly played last year, the Tampa Two, the most important positions are RDE (Schobel last year) because he is the primary pass rusher, and MLB (Poz), because he must be fast enough to sprint backwards and cover the deep middle on pass plays and must also be a hammer on the run. We had those positions covered quite well. Schobel consistently got pressure and Poz also handled his responsibilities. Schobel was no Freeney and Poz was no Urlacher, but both were very solid and productive. In the 3 - 4, the two most important positions are NT because he is the primary weapon against the run, eating up blockers and plugging the middle, and ROLB, because he is the primary pass rusher and must be freakily athletic. Playing these two most important positions, we are going to have Torrell Troup, a rookie at NT. That does not look good, it just doesn't. And at ROLB, we have nobody. We will be letting a bunch of wannnabes and neverbeens fight it out and hope one of them turns into DeMarcus Ware. Not likely. This is where the argument that we'll have a good front seven this year really falls down. How? With a rookie at one of the most important positions and without knowing who will be at the other one? A few years down the road, maybe. But this year? Get real. I think you made this more complicated than it has to be. There is only one real switch in the actualy players on the field (three if you count the two headed monsters of Andre Davis/Kawika Mitchell and Williams/Troup). The starting front 7 was (at the beginning of the year): DE: Schobel DT: Stroud DT: Williams DE: Kelsey OLB: Mitchell MLB: Poz OLB: Ellison And it will be: DE: Stroud NT: Williams/Troupe DE: Edwards OLB: Maybin ILB: Davis/Mitchell ILB: Poz OLB: Schobel So really the only change to the front 7 from the beginning of last year is that we swapped out Ellison for Edwards. I think the better way to look at this move is that there are really 3 positions in play in the front 7 now: 1. OLB, 2. ILB, 3. DL. The previous DEs are now OLBs, the previous DTs are now DLs, and the previous LBs are now ILBs. Basically we just got bigger. I do agree with your point however about most of them playing new positions in the 3-4 with new responsibilities. But I don't think this is going to be the Miami Dolphins 3-4 right out of the gate. They are still going to show 4-2 looks in nickel obvious passing downs because they have the players to do that effectively. So I don't think there is going to be that much of a learning curve with these guys. They'll ask them to do what they can. The biggest concerns seem to be the OLBs (our former undersized DEs) covering the flats. I personally don't think it's going to be that bad with Maybin and Schobel. Maybin is definitely athletic enough to cover the flat and schobel did it a lot when GW and Dick Lebeau were here (always hated when on third and long, they'd rush 5 five guys and drop our best pass rusher - Schobel - into coverage in the short underneath area). I think they'll do well on defense this year and I fully expect them to be in the top 20 defenses.
tennesseeboy Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 just too many changes and unproven players (and unproven players at new positions) to tell how it will work out. Secondary is fine. I have my fingers crossed.
Adam Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I think we have stabilized our defense. Another good draft or two, then I think we can start being really good/dominant. I think Troup and Carrington can really develop into key players. I also think McKelvin and Byrd can be good in the new defense, but as a unit, our secondary is suspect at best.
MRW Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 I think we have stabilized our defense. Another good draft or two, then I think we can start being really good/dominant. I think Troup and Carrington can really develop into key players. I also think McKelvin and Byrd can be good in the new defense, but as a unit, our secondary is suspect at best. What? The secondary was the strongest unit of the D last year and is coming into next year completely unchanged (with the exception of getting players back from injury). Why do you think it's suspect, especially as opposed to the front 7?
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