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[Wacka]

That's a cute historical rewrite. Lots of people off the boat never learned English. I knew plenty of houses in Rochester and Buffalo that had a grandmother or grandfather that hadn't made it past some simple nouns and verbs.

 

There are certainly differences between that group and the ones that are the focus of this law but try to keep the inane frothing to am minimum.

 

Most did learn English.

My maternal grandfather came over from Poland in his early 20s (sometime about 1910). He knew only a few words of English when he got here. He taught himself as there were no classes to teach you, no talking movies, TV or radio (none had been invented yet). He read the paper and talked to people. He said that if you ome here you better learn the language. They stopped speaking Polish at home when my mom and the other eight kids kept bugging them to. The only time I heard Polish from him was when they were talking gossip in front of us grandkids.

[Celtic_soulja]

That's a cute historical rewrite. Lots of people off the boat never learned English. I knew plenty of houses in Rochester and Buffalo that had a grandmother or grandfather that hadn't made it past some simple nouns and verbs.

 

There are certainly differences between that group and the ones that are the focus of this law but try to keep the inane frothing to am minimum.

 

What's the difference?

 

So now the government tells us what to spend our money on (Healthcare, Health Foods, No Alcohol, No Smoke), they can't tell us what religion to believe but can cater to Christianity, privacy is now a thing of the past, they can tell us what language to speak. This is stupid. Our country really needs to back up and take a gander at what is going on. Our citizens are getting weaker by the day and the more freedom that they take, the weaker we will get.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Most did learn English.

My maternal grandfather came over from Poland in his early 20s (sometime about 1910). He knew only a few words of English when he got here. He taught himself as there were no classes to teach you, no talking movies, TV or radio (none had been invented yet). He read the paper and talked to people. He said that if you ome here you better learn the language. They stopped speaking Polish at home when my mom and the other eight kids kept bugging them to. The only time I heard Polish from him was when they were talking gossip in front of us grandkids.

That mirrors my experience exactly. My dads parents-both from Poland where proud of their English and only slipped into Polish when they where arguing with each other.

[PastaJoe]

Something tells me the left is about to find out just what America really thinks about illegal immigrants.

 

Because "the left" are not Americans.

[Celtic_soulja]

That mirrors my experience exactly. My dads parents-both from Poland where proud of their English and only slipped into Polish when they where arguing with each other.

 

It is funny, silly and cute when white immigrants do it. It is sickening and disgusting when "tinted" skin people do it though. I understand.

[Jim in Anchorage]

It is funny, silly and cute when white immigrants do it. It is sickening and disgusting when "tinted" skin people do it though. I understand.

Look A wipe you will never understand the grief my Polish ancestors took in this country for being Polish. You think your brown skin Buddy's are the first to experience discrimination? They overcame it by understanding they needed to adapt to this country,not the other way around. And they where LEGAL immigrants, some thing you apparently feel is trivial.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

That's a cute historical rewrite. Lots of people off the boat never learned English. I knew plenty of houses in Rochester and Buffalo that had a grandmother or grandfather that hadn't made it past some simple nouns and verbs.

 

There are certainly differences between that group and the ones that are the focus of this law but try to keep the inane frothing to am minimum.

 

Maybe so, but by the first generation native, that household was speaking English.

[Celtic_soulja]

Look A wipe you will never understand the grief my Polish ancestors took in this country for being Polish. You think your brown skin Buddy's are the first to experience discrimination? They overcame it by understanding they needed to adapt to the country,not the other way around. And they where LEGAL immigrants, some thing you apparently feel is trivial.

 

The Polish struggle I know nothing about do I?

 

The religious persecution? The ghettoes they used to occupy? The descrimination they faced from the "patriots" of those days? I do know a bit. And I'm not talking about the stupid Polish jokes. I am talking about real immigrant struggles. What boggles MY mind, is that why was it okay for others to do it to YOUR family when they came? I am just as disgusted with it now, as I am when I read about it back then. I am not a reverse racist, contrary to your opinion of me.

 

The Irish, the Polish, the Jewish, the German, the Asian, the Hispanic immigrants all have faced very similar battles to establish themselves. I disagree that the Polish completely assimilated into American culture. They reshaped plenty in thier own neighborhoods. Which is why the natives back then descriminated and put them through hell. Many churches lasted into the early 60s still speaking gospel in thier native languages. Polish neighborhoods were nothing like Italian neighborhoods. South Boston is still nothing like Harlem or Miami. People do not 100 percent assimilate. America is strong because we ARE a plethora of cultures that learn to work together. The learning to work together takes long because of ignorant people that are always pointing the finger at "the new guys" for the nation's problems.

 

Right now the "new guys" happen to be Hispanic. I don't think it was right then, I don't think it is right now. Sorry if that makes me an A wipe. I think your great grandmother would say differently.

 

The only real different stories are from the Native Americans and the African Americans. Both had no choice in what happened to them. The Native Americans were welcoming and got shanked for it. The Africans got scooped up and brought. So both of those struggles are the only truly different kind of social struggles than the many immigrant groups that have been beat down upon arrival.

[Chef Jim]

The Polish struggle I know nothing about do I?

 

The religious persecution? The ghettoes they used to occupy? The descrimination they faced from the "patriots" of those days? I do know a bit. And I'm not talking about the stupid Polish jokes. I am talking about real immigrant struggles. What boggles MY mind, is that why was it okay for others to do it to YOUR family when they came? I am just as disgusted with it now, as I am when I read about it back then. I am not a reverse racist, contrary to your opinion of me.

 

The Irish, the Polish, the Jewish, the German, the Asian, the Hispanic immigrants all have faced very similar battles to establish themselves. I disagree that the Polish completely assimilated into American culture. They reshaped plenty in thier own neighborhoods. Which is why the natives back then descriminated and put them through hell. Many churches lasted into the early 60s still speaking gospel in thier native languages. Polish neighborhoods were nothing like Italian neighborhoods. South Boston is still nothing like Harlem or Miami. People do not 100 percent assimilate. America is strong because we ARE a plethora of cultures that learn to work together. The learning to work together takes long because of ignorant people that are always pointing the finger at "the new guys" for the nation's problems.

 

Right now the "new guys" happen to be Hispanic. I don't think it was right then, I don't think it is right now. Sorry if that makes me an A wipe. I think your great grandmother would say differently.

 

The only real different stories are from the Native Americans and the African Americans. Both had no choice in what happened to them. The Native Americans were welcoming and got shanked for it. The Africans got scooped up and brought. So both of those struggles are the only truly different kind of social struggles than the many immigrant groups that have been beat down upon arrival.

 

Here's the difference. The Poles, Jews, Germans, Italians, Irish did not come in the vast numbers that the Hispanics have been. THAT'S the problem. I don't have as much of a problem with the illegals that work and provide a labor force to do things that Americans won't but there are far more of them crossing the border than there are jobs waiting.

[Celtic_soulja]

Here's the difference. The Poles, Jews, Germans, Italians, Irish did not come in the vast numbers that the Hispanics have been. THAT'S the problem. I don't have as much of a problem with the illegals that work and provide a labor force to do things that Americans won't but there are far more of them crossing the border than there are jobs waiting.

 

EXCUSE ME???? wow, that is completely ignorant of history. hehehehehe I will respond anyway. Listen up, maybe you'll learn something.

 

Polish arrived at a rate of about 74,000 per year during the big Polish migration wave...that was crossing an ocean, not a fence.

 

Irish arrived at a rate of 200,000 per year during the famine and then it averages out to about 60,000 per year over the next forty years....again an ocean not a fence

 

Mexicans is about 250-300,000 per year. Slight advantage, but c'mon, they hop a fence not an ocean.

 

And the Irish/Polish were in the same group of decades. With the famine in 1845 and the Russian persecution of Poles between 1830 and 1860. So say what you want but it's nearly identical in numbers when you add them up with all of Europe "dumping thier trash" into the U.S. like you guys are talking about Mexico.

[DrFishfinder]

Years ago when I lived in Florida they asked me if I'd like my exam in English or Spanish (I get real dark when I tan). I said "give it to me in Spanish, I like a challenge." Damn, those DMV people have no sense of humor.

You should visit My Yami now. In entire parts of the city, signs, billboards and business advertising in English are all but non-existent.

.

That being said, in 3 generations, everything will be back to English

[Celtic_soulja]

That's a cute historical rewrite. Lots of people off the boat never learned English. I knew plenty of houses in Rochester and Buffalo that had a grandmother or grandfather that hadn't made it past some simple nouns and verbs.

 

There are certainly differences between that group and the ones that are the focus of this law but try to keep the inane frothing to am minimum.

 

Oh, and just for the record as far as assimilation goes. There are still 1.9 million homes that still speak Polish in the home. The wave came over 140 years ago. How long does it take to assimilate?

[John Adams]

The only real different stories are from the Native Americans and the African Americans. Both had no choice in what happened to them. The Native Americans were welcoming and got shanked for it. The Africans got scooped up and brought. So both of those struggles are the only truly different kind of social struggles than the many immigrant groups that have been beat down upon arrival.

 

I am responding to your whole crazy post...not just the above part.

 

There are some big differences that help explain why the Latino population hasn't assimilated like so many others.

 

Many come by land (or short boat rides) and thus CAN and DO get here easily and illegally. The European and Asian immigrants didn't have that option and when you're making a transoceanic voyage, you will have a harder time illegally entering. Also, if you get deported, it's hard to get back again. So the transoceanic people have more invested in arriving and legally entering...it's easier for the Latinos to live this shadow life as illegals.

 

The pre-1970 groups that came transoceanically left with the belief that they could well be on a one way trip, never seeing their relatives again. A trans-ocean phone call was nearly unheard of for regular people and no one dreamed of flying home. That brought a different level of commitment to the trip. The people who came to the US wanted to be here and stay and were extremely focused on getting themselves assimilated because there was no backup plan. Someone who comes from Mexico need only walk back across the border to see their relatives and previous life. Or they can call on cell phones 20x a day or email or video call...etc.

 

For the WBF types, I believe people here are quick to dismiss the Hispanics as not absorbing English but I don't think that's the case either. Once Latino children go to US schools, they learn English (because they want to) and retain their Latino heritage and tradition. BFD. Like so many 1G immigrants, the people who arrived here know little English biut their children learn it.

[Chef Jim]

EXCUSE ME???? wow, that is completely ignorant of history. hehehehehe I will respond anyway. Listen up, maybe you'll learn something.

 

Polish arrived at a rate of about 74,000 per year during the big Polish migration wave...that was crossing an ocean, not a fence.

 

Irish arrived at a rate of 200,000 per year during the famine and then it averages out to about 60,000 per year over the next forty years....again an ocean not a fence

Mexicans is about 250-300,000 per year. Slight advantage, but c'mon, they hop a fence not an ocean.

 

And the Irish/Polish were in the same group of decades. With the famine in 1845 and the Russian persecution of Poles between 1830 and 1860. So say what you want but it's nearly identical in numbers when you add them up with all of Europe "dumping thier trash" into the U.S. like you guys are talking about Mexico.

 

First off your numbers are way off and secondly because they only have to "hop a fence" it's ok? And even if your numbers were accurate the sustained migration of illegals from south of the border has last decades longer that the mass migration from Europe.

[WisconsinBillzFan]

For the WBF types, I believe people here are quick to dismiss the Hispanics as not absorbing English but I don't think that's the case either. Once Latino children go to US schools, they learn English (because they want to) and retain their Latino heritage and tradition. BFD. Like so many 1G immigrants, the people who arrived here know little English biut their children learn it.

 

Not all of them. Some of them. Why do you think that they push so hard for Spanish to be used in the classroom.

[Celtic_soulja]

I am responding to your whole crazy post...not just the above part.

 

There are some big differences that help explain why the Latino population hasn't assimilated like so many others.

 

Many come by land (or short boat rides) and thus CAN and DO get here easily and illegally. The European and Asian immigrants didn't have that option and when you're making a transoceanic voyage, you will have a harder time illegally entering. Also, if you get deported, it's hard to get back again. So the transoceanic people have more invested in arriving and legally entering...it's easier for the Latinos to live this shadow life as illegals.

 

The pre-1970 groups that came transoceanically left with the belief that they could well be on a one way trip, never seeing their relatives again. A trans-ocean phone call was nearly unheard of for regular people and no one dreamed of flying home. That brought a different level of commitment to the trip. The people who came to the US wanted to be here and stay and were extremely focused on getting themselves assimilated because there was no backup plan. Someone who comes from Mexico need only walk back across the border to see their relatives and previous life. Or they can call on cell phones 20x a day or email or video call...etc.

 

For the WBF types, I believe people here are quick to dismiss the Hispanics as not absorbing English but I don't think that's the case either. Once Latino children go to US schools, they learn English (because they want to) and retain their Latino heritage and tradition. BFD. Like so many 1G immigrants, the people who arrived here know little English biut their children learn it.

 

Good post. You are right, crossing an ocean is not exactly hopping a fence. My argument is just that we absorbed plenty of European immigrants that do actually compete with the Latin immigration we are absorbing now.

 

Assimilation takes time. Like you said 1G immigrants rarely completely assimilate into our nation.

 

Personally I think the Hispanic immigration has assimilated quickly. They already have political leadership, workers unions, and power much faster than many other immigrant groups that came. Since we are a culture of power, I think they have assimilated so well it is pissing off some of the "natives".

 

I champion the immigrant because I see them no differently than any other immigrants that came here and helped make this nation what it is today.

[Jim in Anchorage]

The Polish struggle I know nothing about do I?

 

The religious persecution? The ghettoes they used to occupy? The descrimination they faced from the "patriots" of those days? I do know a bit. And I'm not talking about the stupid Polish jokes. I am talking about real immigrant struggles. What boggles MY mind, is that why was it okay for others to do it to YOUR family when they came? I am just as disgusted with it now, as I am when I read about it back then. I am not a reverse racist, contrary to your opinion of me.

 

The Irish, the Polish, the Jewish, the German, the Asian, the Hispanic immigrants all have faced very similar battles to establish themselves. I disagree that the Polish completely assimilated into American culture. They reshaped plenty in thier own neighborhoods. Which is why the natives back then descriminated and put them through hell. Many churches lasted into the early 60s still speaking gospel in thier native languages. Polish neighborhoods were nothing like Italian neighborhoods. South Boston is still nothing like Harlem or Miami. People do not 100 percent assimilate. America is strong because we ARE a plethora of cultures that learn to work together. The learning to work together takes long because of ignorant people that are always pointing the finger at "the new guys" for the nation's problems.

 

Right now the "new guys" happen to be Hispanic. I don't think it was right then, I don't think it is right now. Sorry if that makes me an A wipe. I think your great grandmother would say differently.

 

The only real different stories are from the Native Americans and the African Americans. Both had no choice in what happened to them. The Native Americans were welcoming and got shanked for it. The Africans got scooped up and brought. So both of those struggles are the only truly different kind of social struggles than the many immigrant groups that have been beat down upon arrival.

You miss my point entirely. My Polish ancestors kept there traditions, sure, but it was in the family.They did not DEMAND school's be taught in Polish, or expect anyone to accommodate their lack of English. They understood they needed to fit in a new country, and did so. Maybe the fact that they went though the hoops to get here LEGALLY was a factor.

[Celtic_soulja]

You miss my point entirely. My Polish ancestors kept there traditions, sure, but it was in the family.They did not DEMAND school's be taught in Polish, or expect anyone to accommodate their lack of English. They understood they needed to fit in a new country, and did so. Maybe the fact that they went though the hoops to get here LEGALLY was a factor.

 

It wasn't any easier in 1830 than it was post 1940 to get into the nation legally either was it? Jumping through hoops. Don't you mean talkin to the guy at Ellis Island? Please. Apples to Oranges Jim. On top of it would have been mighty hard to swim an ocean, and the records kept in 1830 don't compare to the records kept here now.

 

1.9 million households still speak Polish in the home. That's 180 years later. How about giving Hispanics a few more decades in thier quest to justify themselves to Polak in Alaska

[Jim in Anchorage]

It wasn't any easier in 1830 than it was post 1940 to get into the nation legally either was it? Jumping through hoops. Don't you mean talkin to the guy at Ellis Island? Please. Apples to Oranges Jim. On top of it would have been mighty hard to swim an ocean, and the records kept in 1830 don't compare to the records kept here now.

 

1.9 million households still speak Polish in the home. That's 180 years later. How about giving Hispanics a few more decades in thier quest to justify themselves to Polak in Alaska

Oh great,mister deep understanding calles me a Polak.Will you never grasp the difference between LEGAL citizenship and illegally dropping in to pick up a few bucks and shooting home?

[/dev/null]

Oh great,mister deep understanding calles me a Polak.

 

At least he didn't call you a Moran