thebug Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 No, I just think they read the same books. I thought it was clear from my posts, that I don't read no books. I will work on becoming mayor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Relax CS, and turn on your sarcasameter, the commie comment was a joke. Also in regards to: You missed the whole point. Your deal, isn't lucrative what so ever, you will end up losing money FOR SURE! What is lucrative is the markup, if someone buys a home for $60,000 and sells it for $180,000 and gets all the money up front through financing, then yes, that is LUCRATIVE. In your case, IF everything goes according to plan, inflation remains stable, all 85 tenants always pay their bills and you have no other issues, you still dont make that much money, because it is over a 20 year period. Of course, there will be issues, and you WILL have a high default rate (because of your lax credit requirements and 0 gimmicky down payment), inflation will spike and since you have no loan loss reserves, it is only a matter of time before you default on your loan. I wasn't being cute with you, I brought up legitimate issues that can help you if you decide to move forward with this. OK? Ok...that's fair...but what "loan" will I default on?...the funding from local government?...it's not actually a loan...in politics we call it a good faith payment...if it works, they get thier money back...if it don't...well we tried...kind of like the stock market is SUPPOSED to work...you invest in the idea, if it goes under too bad so sad...this happens much more than you would think, and city governments do it to bankers all the time...which makes me smile of course hehehe... so I can't default in that sense...I will be run out of town by my own political allies if it goes belly up...but what do I really lose?...and in the big picture...what does the city really lose...they WILL have a more beautiful town....more attractive houses on the market...more tax revenue...I truly can't go into the real details of how the funding works...I can give you a hint...if you like research...check out the book Urban Politics: Power in Metropolitan America chapters 4 and 8...then read, well you've probably already read Civil Disobedience...if you mash them together...you can get a rough idea of how a power group can take and rebuild any city with the right people... You're right, I am not a good bean counter, I'm not as horrible as you think...I'm alright...I have experience in the financial field...it is thin, only a few years...but I know the broad basics...the concepts...I'm very idealistic and I am a big picture guy...not a detail guy...but that is not saying I don't need detail guys...I do have them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 You're sure you'll cover it...but you haven't PLANNED for it. That's my entire point...you have an idea, and it's not a bad one, but not any sort of practical implementation of it. And you actually dismissed that perfectly valid (and important) criticism above as "being too more in details than concepts". Yeah, poor people never want money. That's why they're poor. Well, you think what you want about the working class, and I'll think what I want....when I go into business with them...we will see who is right and who is wrong...i am designing a system that will work for them...because I believe I know what would work for them...me, and most of the working class think the financial system works backwards...maybe our minds are backwards...in any case, I think a backward design according to the financial world is one that would work in my hood...maybe I'm wrong...but what banker has designed a program that the working class rejoiced for?...or could even pay for correctly?...exactly...so, I'll try my hand at it...the city has nothing to lose, I have nothing to lose, the people have nothing to lose... I will work out the details of if this guy burns his house down with contractors on the roof after I work on securing funding...and it is not a one man operation...I DO have bean counters...I DO have an admin asst with 15 years of experience as an executive assistant of a development corporation...small one...similar in size to my operation...its not like I need to know EVERYTHING...I'm the guy with the direction, dreams, concepts....I'm not bashing detail oriented people...I'm just saying they all WORK for guys like me...more big picture type of guys...more screw it, lets do it kinda guys...risk takers and dreamers...if I fall on my face so be it...but I won't count beans making someone elses dream come true...just not my deal... I found out I stank as a bean counter when I would spot stocks and companies...my boss would make the money on it...I would invest and get demolished with trade fees...and end up just above even...I had the concept right...just wasn't the most careful guy in the world...I'd rather run head first into something and get to the action scene...but this time around it's a bit more ambitious and more people are going to be affected...so I got my bean counters and people that are much more cautious...but to be a shot caller you gotta have sach...that's what I was gettin at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 ...its not like I need to know EVERYTHING...I'm the guy with the direction, dreams, concepts....I'm not bashing detail oriented people...I'm just saying they all WORK for guys like me...more big picture type of guys...more screw it, lets do it kinda guys...risk takers and dreamers...if I fall on my face so be it... People who start ventures with a serious misconception of what it takes to be a 'big picture/top guy/boss/CEO/whatever you call him' guy usually end up with failed ventures. Helpful advice: I wouldn't repeat your 'I don't need to know about that because I have a good secretary' management strategy to your funders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 You're right, I am not a good bean counter, I'm not as horrible as you think...I'm alright...I have experience in the financial field...it is thin, only a few years...but I know the broad basics...the concepts...I'm very idealistic and I am a big picture guy...not a detail guy...but that is not saying I don't need detail guys...I do have them... You will never get the "funding" for your "project" because you lack in details. The only shot of you receiving these funds if one of two things happen, which is either that you are working with an imbecile who doesn't care about the effectiveness of the funds that he is able to distribute or that your good friend is the one doling out the cash, in which of course he'd still have to be an idiot to trust you with the funding because of your nonsensical, poorly thought out, destined to fail "plan". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 You will never get the "funding" for your "project" because you lack in details. The only shot of you receiving these funds if one of two things happen, which is either that you are working with an imbecile who doesn't care about the effectiveness of the funds that he is able to distribute He already said, he's getting local government funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 He already said, he's getting local government funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 He already said, he's getting local government funding. That I am...and imbecile?...IMBECILE?... okay lets review...I will take money and place cash bids on properties that need work and are going for good prices...I will put in work to rebuild them to upgrade them whatever...with my connections and volunteers and resources...I can do the job much cheaper than appraised...then I sell them back to people for a profit...but instead of taking the profit, I pour it into the next house and next house....yeah, that's never been done...it would take an IMBECILE to back something like that...you're soooooooooo right... And KD...do you think I will present my plan as it is on this message board?...really?...as vague and broad as it is?...yeah, and I add up all my posts and send it to publishers for my published writing to... you guys HAVE to be joking...you CAN'T be this out of touch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 okay lets review...I will take money and place cash bids on properties that need work and are going for good prices...I will put in work to rebuild them to upgrade them whatever...with my connections and volunteers and resources...I can do the job much cheaper than appraised...then I sell them back to people for a profit...but instead of taking the profit, I pour it into the next house and next house Hold on a second here, you aren't going to receive any money up front (remember 0 down payment ), and you won't accept financing, which means that you wouldn't receive the entirety of the funds until after the 20 years is up (that's if everyone pays, which is doubtful), yet somehow, you are going to use your "profits" (which there won't be any) and pour it into another house. Is that right? What sort of time line were you thinking? I calculate that if everything goes according to plan (which it won't) then lets say, mmmmmmmm maybe 20 years, if you're lucky. ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 That I am...and imbecile?...IMBECILE?... okay lets review...I will take money and place cash bids on properties that need work and are going for good prices...I will put in work to rebuild them to upgrade them whatever...with my connections and volunteers and resources...I can do the job much cheaper than appraised...then I sell them back to people for a profit...but instead of taking the profit, I pour it into the next house and next house....yeah, that's never been done...it would take an IMBECILE to back something like that...you're soooooooooo right... And KD...do you think I will present my plan as it is on this message board?...really?...as vague and broad as it is?...yeah, and I add up all my posts and send it to publishers for my published writing to... you guys HAVE to be joking...you CAN'T be this out of touch And we keep criticizing you because you have an idea. Not a plan. And we MOCK you because when we point out that you don't have a plan, your response is invariably along the lines of "I don't need a plan, I've got an idea. Plans oppress the masses." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I think you are underestimating inflation and inevitable rising property taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Hold on a second here, you aren't going to receive any money up front (remember 0 down payment ), and you won't accept financing, which means that you wouldn't receive the entirety of the funds until after the 20 years is up (that's if everyone pays, which is doubtful), yet somehow, you are going to use your "profits" (which there won't be any) and pour it into another house. Is that right? What sort of time line were you thinking? I calculate that if everything goes according to plan (which it won't) then lets say, mmmmmmmm maybe 20 years, if you're lucky. ok Again thinking on mortgage loan terms...and I would expect no less from you... I recieve cash upfront FROM THE CITY....I PURCHASE THE HOMES FROM THE BANKS CASH...I sell them...I DO NOT PAY THE CITY BACK AT 100% OF WHAT IS COMING IN FROM THE RENTERS/NEW OWNERS...mmmmmmm riiiiight...again I'm the imbecile I know...so naive....consider it whatever you wish...but the houses will be technically the CDC's until they are rented...and then they will be just as the banks and purchaser set up...they own it, but bank gets it if they default...since I owe nothing technically on the properties...only the good faith repayment to the city, which is stipulation laden....I'm not doing business with ignorant elite investors...I'm doing business with us...we will do it ourselves...allllllll the imbeciles of the ghetto...and if it don't go as planned...which nothing ever does anyway...who cares...it is an action that is filled with compassion, vision, and all good intentions...and it will work based on that alone...see you're surrounded by back stabbing white collar people...I couldn't possibly expect someone like you to understand the heart and backbone of a community like mine...loyalty and not afraid to do real work...that's something you guys know very little about...I may not be excellent at the ins and outs of the lending business...but I'm doing business with a whole different crew...a crew all of you outcast...but I embrace...you do not, and probably will never understand what real heart is and what real sach is...so it was my mistake in bringing you into all of this discussion...you obviously cannot get outside your normal mode of thought to see things in a different light...you repeat yourself about market values and my "deal" versus interest loans and how I'm paying back my funding like I am taking out a gigantic loan...which I have answered over and over again I am not doing...but you just can't fathom that...sorry for confusing you with my simplistic designs...and compassionate solutions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 That I am...and imbecile?...IMBECILE?... okay lets review...I will take money and place cash bids on properties that need work and are going for good prices...I will put in work to rebuild them to upgrade them whatever...with my connections and volunteers and resources...I can do the job much cheaper than appraised...then I sell them back to people for a profit...but instead of taking the profit, I pour it into the next house and next house....yeah, that's never been done...it would take an IMBECILE to back something like that...you're soooooooooo right... And KD...do you think I will present my plan as it is on this message board?...really?...as vague and broad as it is?...yeah, and I add up all my posts and send it to publishers for my published writing to... you guys HAVE to be joking...you CAN'T be this out of touch So you're pouring $500 a month into the next property? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 And we keep criticizing you because you have an idea. Not a plan. And we MOCK you because when we point out that you don't have a plan, your response is invariably along the lines of "I don't need a plan, I've got an idea. Plans oppress the masses." Very close...very close indeed...I posted my idea...my concept...not my plan...my plan however is much more simplistic in its design than one of Wall Streets plans...but my plan has to be simple and bending...considering how plans do not work for very long, it has to be versatile...the more rigid the plan, the higher the chance for failure...this is why great accomplishments seem to evade people that overthink and overplan... I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying this...really...so don't take it the wrong way...but most of you white collars...you guys have done great things?...my "ridiculous" plan has already been endorsed by someone that could buy and sell you three times over...its been endorsed by political leaders and activists...activists is a given, as most do not care about anything but how it will affect thier constituents...but like I said, I am not saying they are better people...I'm just saying I am not going to go to great lengths to justify my "idea"....and this "childish" or "naive" confidence is because I have had this project justified to me by people I believe are more of an authoritive voice than y'all... I posted the concept to get criticized and I have been...ooooooohhhhh I have been lol...but that's why I did it...I mean, I love hearing bean counters rip it apart...it lets me know I'm doing the right thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 So you're pouring $500 a month into the next property? Among other incomes yes...that's exactly what I'm doing...not 100%...I'm looking to cover overhead with about 30%...payback the city with about 30%...and expand with the remaining 40%....this is not just a single prong deal either...like i've mentioned my "overpaying" of insurance for the remediation team...total cost upfront 1 million and income of 2-5m...that goes into expanding the CDC...a privatized security company...to help suppliment the undermanned police force...another few hundred thousand start up and income after overhead 450,000...jobs, money, rebuilding property, promoting home ownership, I'm am sooooo evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Very close...very close indeed...I posted my idea...my concept...not my plan...my plan however is much more simplistic in its design than one of Wall Streets plans...but my plan has to be simple and bending...considering how plans do not work for very long, it has to be versatile...the more rigid the plan, the higher the chance for failure...this is why great accomplishments seem to evade people that overthink and overplan... I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying this...really...so don't take it the wrong way...but most of you white collars...you guys have done great things?...my "ridiculous" plan has already been endorsed by someone that could buy and sell you three times over...its been endorsed by political leaders and activists...activists is a given, as most do not care about anything but how it will affect thier constituents...but like I said, I am not saying they are better people...I'm just saying I am not going to go to great lengths to justify my "idea"....and this "childish" or "naive" confidence is because I have had this project justified to me by people I believe are more of an authoritive voice than y'all... I posted the concept to get criticized and I have been...ooooooohhhhh I have been lol...but that's why I did it...I mean, I love hearing bean counters rip it apart...it lets me know I'm doing the right thing... You do understand that you're talking to a hell of a lot of people here who've been-there-done-that, and are ripping you apart not because your idea sucks but because you're clearly in WAY over your head, right? And there's no flexibility in your plan. Just the opposite. Your cost controls and risk controls are so completely non-existent (wilfully nonexistent, amazingly), that you have almost no margin for error. One moderate flood, and you're !@#$ed three ways to Sunday. 10% of your customer base turn out to be deadbeats, and you have no defined cash reserve for absorbing the loss. You're committed to a single course of action dependent on nothing going wrong, because you haven't planned a single contingency (hell, you haven't even considered one). That's not "flexibility", that's asinine. And what's more, your ONLY reasons for not doing so seems to be "because that's what evil bankers do." Are you !@#$ing kidding? Do you know why evil bankers do that? It's so they don't get ass-!@#$ed when an oil rig blows up in the Gulf of Mexico. God help you and your concept if the world turns out to be anything other than perfect, since you have no ability to deal with it. P.S. The world's not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 You do understand that you're talking to a hell of a lot of people here who've been-there-done-that, and are ripping you apart not because your idea sucks but because you're clearly in WAY over your head, right? And there's no flexibility in your plan. Just the opposite. Your cost controls and risk controls are so completely non-existent (wilfully nonexistent, amazingly), that you have almost no margin for error. One moderate flood, and you're !@#$ed three ways to Sunday. 10% of your customer base turn out to be deadbeats, and you have no defined cash reserve for absorbing the loss. You're committed to a single course of action dependent on nothing going wrong, because you haven't planned a single contingency (hell, you haven't even considered one). That's not "flexibility", that's asinine. And what's more, your ONLY reasons for not doing so seems to be "because that's what evil bankers do." Are you !@#$ing kidding? Do you know why evil bankers do that? It's so they don't get ass-!@#$ed when an oil rig blows up in the Gulf of Mexico. God help you and your concept if the world turns out to be anything other than perfect, since you have no ability to deal with it. P.S. The world's not perfect. Greed IS good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Greed IS good. I wish I could be there the first time he discovers that being poor doesn't make someone idealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Damn I'm out of Popcorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic_soulja Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 I wish I could be there the first time he discovers that being poor doesn't make someone idealistic. hehehehehh wow...yeah...I won't even comment there...who am I kidding...yes I will...being rich doesn't make you righteous either... and I'm not in over my head...I'm in over your head...there's a difference...you don't understand how a simple design can work... I completely do not have a plan B...because that would address one thing or another...I do not try to see things coming...I have worked on reaction time...you start and as problems come...as I have said they surely will...you learn to move...you need only one safegard...I will have no debt building up...it is a performanced based good faith payment...I'm getting a headache trying to explain the most simple thing...buy, fix, friggen sell... and if ten percent default...awwwwww...I'm sure there are just not enough people to put back into the homes...you react you don't plan...you cannot, NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY, control what will happen...you can only control your reaction...I have said there will be plenty of bumps and bruises...but who cares?...if you can't take that then you will sit behind your desk all day making someone else money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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