Illegal immigrants living in AZ

[Keukasmallies]

So, new legislation in AZ seeks to identify persons in the state illegally and eventually have them deported to their country of origin. There is no question that some individuals are illegals because that status definition was established at the national level. AZ, experiencing extraordinary stress and strain on its infrastructure due to a concentration of illegal immigrants, seeks to do something about their problems: Identify and deport illegal immigrants.

 

I'm sure the citizens of AZ appreciate the insightful observations of those living thousands of miles away geographically, and light years away from the every day impact on the ground in AZ. I do wonder just what remedies to AZ's problems would be deemed acceptable by the critics of the new legislation.

[Jim in Anchorage]

So, new legislation in AZ seeks to identify persons in the state illegally and eventually have them deported to their country of origin. There is no question that some individuals are illegals because that status definition was established at the national level. AZ, experiencing extraordinary stress and strain on its infrastructure due to a concentration of illegal immigrants, seeks to do something about their problems: Identify and deport illegal immigrants.

 

I'm sure the citizens of AZ appreciate the insightful observations of those living thousands of miles away geographically, and light years away from the every day impact on the ground in AZ. I do wonder just what remedies to AZ's problems would be deemed acceptable by the critics of the new legislation.

NBC "news" offered the profound insight the law now makes being a illegal immigrant against the law

[DC Tom]

NBC "news" offered the profound insight the law now makes being a illegal immigrant against the law

 

Unreal...

[Jim in Anchorage]

Unreal...

I swear to God. My jaw still hurts from hitting the floor. I watch NBC "news" strictly for such gems, and they rarely disappoint.

Well actually I misspoke. They said it makes it a "crime" not against the law.

40 sec mark

[John Adams]

I understand AZ's problem but the part of the law most people are bitching about really is a serious problem:

 

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373©.

 

So a cop sees a Latino guy driving down the street in a pickup truck (lawful contact) with a lawnmower in the back and suspects (based on the fact that he's a Latino landscaper perhaps) that he's an immigrant. So now he must (because the law says SHALL) make a reasonable attempt to ascertain his immigration status? LEGAL immigrants in AZ are going to have their right to be free form unreasonable search and seizure violated right and left under this bill.

 

I don't see this passing any Constitutional challenge and nor should it.

[WisconsinBillzFan]

So, new legislation in AZ seeks to identify persons in the state illegally and eventually have them deported to their country of origin. There is no question that some individuals are illegals because that status definition was established at the national level. AZ, experiencing extraordinary stress and strain on its infrastructure due to a concentration of illegal immigrants, seeks to do something about their problems: Identify and deport illegal immigrants.

 

I'm sure the citizens of AZ appreciate the insightful observations of those living thousands of miles away geographically, and light years away from the every day impact on the ground in AZ. I do wonder just what remedies to AZ's problems would be deemed acceptable by the critics of the new legislation.

 

Amnesty. Plain and simple.

[WisconsinBillzFan]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_con...gal_immigration

[John Adams]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_con...gal_immigration

 

The majority doesn't always determine what is "right."

[WisconsinBillzFan]

The majority doesn't always determine what is "right."

 

You're selling the will of the American public short.

[Keukasmallies]

Any chance that amnesty thingy would work if I ran a lot of red lights....?

[IDBillzFan]

The majority doesn't always determine what is "right."

I think it's pretty safe to say most Americans have a pretty good idea of what is right for them, even though it may not be right for you.

 

Arizona is eyeballs deep in violent crimes committed by illegal aliens (gangs, kidnappings and murder), and I don't find it hard to understand how they they feel they've had enough. I'm sure the murder of Robert Krentz put them over the edge. Especially after they watched Rogert Barnett get hauled into court and forced to pay about $80,000 to illegals who didn't like the way they were treated when Barnett caught them trespassing on his property and held them at gunpoint. Apparently Barnett should not have used a gun...he should have put out a coffee service cart. Maybe some donuts.

 

Admittedly I am not sure to what extent I like this Arizona law, but I don't have a problem if Arizona chooses to protect its own...especially when 70% support the law. Have a problem with the law? Stay out of Arizona or carry your wallet.

 

To our lib friends on this board (I know you're not one, JA), if you don't like the law, just remember the insightful words you kept telling us when we complained about the health care law: "Hey, it's not perfect, but it's a start, and we have to do something because it's better than nothing. We can't settle for the status quo. We have to pass it to see what's in it."

[finknottle]

So a cop sees a Latino guy driving down the street in a pickup truck (lawful contact) with a lawnmower in the back and suspects (based on the fact that he's a Latino landscaper perhaps) that he's an immigrant. So now he must (because the law says SHALL) make a reasonable attempt to ascertain his immigration status? LEGAL immigrants in AZ are going to have their right to be free form unreasonable search and seizure violated right and left under this bill.

 

I don't see this passing any Constitutional challenge and nor should it.

 

Only if the police share your prejudices: that a latino in a pickup truck with a lawnmower is (based on reasonable suspicion) a likely unlawfull alien.

 

I have news for you. Arizona is full of lawfull immigrants, many of whom drive pickup trucks and own lawnmowers. So if the local police implement that stereotype as policy, then sure - they will probably lose the battle over reasonable suspicion. But if they are not fools and do indeed implement a sane policy, then so what? How is this any different than their obligation to investigate other situations where they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed? If (to make up an example) people with the middle name of Wayne are more likely to be killers than other people, are the police rounding up all of those namesakes for questioning now? Are they routinely sending SWAT the teams to post offices?

 

There is a difference between being statistically more likely to have property A and being reasonably suspected of having property A. And presumably the AZ lawyers who will flesh out the policy know their jobs well enough to adhere to the latter. (True, that is not always the case. But that adjudication is what the courts are for.)

[WisconsinBillzFan]

Arizona is eyeballs deep in violent crimes committed by illegal aliens (gangs, kidnappings and murder), and I don't find it hard to understand how they they feel they've had enough. I'm sure the murder of Robert Krentz put them over the edge. Especially after they watched Rogert Barnett get hauled into court and forced to pay about $80,000 to illegals who didn't like the way they were treated when Barnett caught them trespassing on his property and held them at gunpoint. Apparently Barnett should not have used a gun...he should have put out a coffee service cart. Maybe some donuts.

 

 

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_...me_summary.html

 

* In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.

* There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.

* 80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.

* Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.

* In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.

* At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year. ..

* 56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.

* Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.

* Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.

* Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.

* Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.

* There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.

* Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.

* Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.

* In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.

* Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.

* The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.

* The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.

[PastaJoe]

Papers please. Then barcode tattoos. Then tracking chip implants.

 

First they came for the Hispanics and I did nothing...

[John Adams]

To our lib friends on this board (I know you're not one, JA), if you don't like the law, just remember the insightful words you kept telling us when we complained about the health care law: "Hey, it's not perfect, but it's a start, and we have to do something because it's better than nothing. We can't settle for the status quo. We have to pass it to see what's in it."

 

Reasonable suspicion = appearance, ie, somehow someone looks like an illegal alien. Again, I'm not real happy putting that power in the hands of law enforcement.

 

I have no problem with a "broken windows" approach to this, where you can pull over/question anyone who is breaking any law, including jaywalking, loitering, etc. But this law is different. It mandates that a police officer question someone based on "reasonable suspicion" that they are Alien. That is troubling.

[WisconsinBillzFan]

Reasonable suspicion = appearance, ie, somehow someone looks like an illegal alien. Again, I'm not real happy putting that power in the hands of law enforcement.

 

I have no problem with a "broken windows" approach to this, where you can pull over/question anyone who is breaking any law, including jaywalking, loitering, etc. But this law is different. It mandates that a police officer question someone based on "reasonable suspicion" that they are Alien. That is troubling.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/06/mexic...test=latestnews

[whateverdude]

I understand AZ's problem but the part of the law most people are bitching about really is a serious problem:

 

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373©.

 

So a cop sees a Latino guy driving down the street in a pickup truck (lawful contact) with a lawnmower in the back and suspects (based on the fact that he's a Latino landscaper perhaps) that he's an immigrant. So now he must (because the law says SHALL) make a reasonable attempt to ascertain his immigration status? LEGAL immigrants in AZ are going to have their right to be free form unreasonable search and seizure violated right and left under this bill.

 

I don't see this passing any Constitutional challenge and nor should it.

It will be used just like all the other times reasonable suspicion is used. In the course of the officers official duties he stops a person for illegal operation of the truck like the lawnmower not being tied down in a safe and legal manner or speeding ect..and the driver cannot produce a valid license or produces a Mexican license or cannot tell the officer his or hers place of residence than that would be reasonable suspicion to check their status

[Magox]

This is a very complicated problem that has no perfect solution. On the one hand, you have a new law that was just passed that is going to promote racial profiling on a whole new level, and on the other, you have a state that has been mired with illegal immigration issues, to the point now where it's not just about loss of jobs, but violence, and the violence has picked up significantly as of late. I'm torn on this issue, but at the end of the day, I will have to side with the state, soley because the Federal Government has failed miserably in upholding current existing law, and that they feel that they have no other option other than to enforce the laws themselves.

[John Adams]

It will be used just like all the other times reasonable suspicion is used. In the course of the officers official duties he stops a person for illegal operation of the truck like the lawnmower not being tied down in a safe and legal manner or speeding ect..and the driver cannot produce a valid license or produces a Mexican license or cannot tell the officer his or hers place of residence than that would be reasonable suspicion to check their status

 

You don't get it. A police officer can ALREADY do what you said. Read the new law again. The police officer is required to question Alien status of LAWFULLY behaving people that he has reason to suspect are alien.

[PastaJoe]

According to Rep. Brian Bilbray (R-Calif.), "trained professionals" can identify undocumented workers just by looking at their clothes.

 

"They will look at the kind of dress you wear, there is different type of attire, there is different type of -- right down to the shoes, right down to the clothes."

 

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives...their-shoes.php

 

Funny how the same people who are quick to call Obama a socialist and use images of Hitler to characterize his policies, support the type of policies that were used by police in Germany and the Soviet Union.