Kelly the Dog Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Very true. When Jeff Faine went to Cleveland at 21, the Bills were pretty much down to the defensive line if they were going to draft based on need, unless they went for Eric Steinbach. So they looked at the remaining available defensive linemen (William Joseph, Kelsay, Tyler Brayton, Osi Umenyiora), correctly concluded that at least one of them -- and probably Kelsay -- would be available when they picked in the middle of the second round because most teams with D-line needs would already have filled them in the first round. They probably didn't like Joseph anyway -- there's got to be a reason he fell to 26. At that point people in the war room were probably making noises about trading down. Think of where we were at that point (spring 2003): * Bledsoe had had a bad second half in 2002 but no one thought at that point he was finished. We weren't thinking QB and at any rate, after Rex Grossman went to Chicago at 22, the plate was empty at that position. * As previously noted, there weren't really any bona fide OL or DL first-rounders left at 23. * Dallas Clark was still on the board, but we still had Dave Moore and had already traded for Mark Campbell, so we were set at TE. Not that Clark isn't a talent, but you rarely take a TE in the first round. * Eric Moulds and Josh Reed were set to begin the year as our starting wideouts, and we'd signed Bobby Shaw. There wasn't a first-round WR available at 23 anyway. * We were set at linebacker with Posey, Fletcher and Spikes. All the blue-chip linebackers were gone anyway. * In the secondary we still had Winfield and Clements, and the only safeties left (Rashean Mathis, Ken Hamlin and Mike Doss) would still be around in the second. * That was an "extra" first-round pick (we'd gotten it for Peerless). Our real first-round pick in 2003 was Drew Bledsoe, just like our first-rounder in 2005 will be J.P. Losman. So we were playing with Monopoly money at that point. * A healthy McGahee was head and shoulders above everyone else available. Think of it: had he not ripped up his knee, he'd have been the second pick in the draft and no one would have batted an eye. You knew he was going to the Raiders at the end of the first round if we didn't take him there, and maybe there just wasn't a trade-down possibility available in the next seven slots. So the alternatives were these: 1. Take Joseph or Steinbach at 23. 2. Trade down into the second round and take Kelsay and a safety. 3. Take McGahee. Man am I glad we went for door number three. 138171[/snapback] I totally agree. What a lot of fans always forget or choose to forget is that a GM drafting CONSTANTLY changes his mind on who he will or may draft, depending on who becomes available. We very likely wouldn't be having this conversation if there wasn't a run on DE before the Bills picked. The Bills, and other teams, liked a lot of those guys and they were swooped up quick. By the time the Bills drafted, there wasn't anyone left that TD felt deserved first round money. That is the real issue. McGahee was the only player left WORTHY of the #23 pick and #23 money in the Bills' scouts and GM's eyes. I think McGahee was one of about 5 players that TD thought might be available with #23, and none of the other four were left. I think it was a pretty easy pick for TD to make because he had already done the math when preparing for the draft and had crossed out all the other players. All that was left was a trade offer from another team for our #23 where it would have given us something considerable plus the ability to get McGahee down a few slots.
Alaska Darin Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 I'm with ya. I'm humble enough to know that there are people in football who know alot more about the game than I do. Alot of posters on this board can't make that claim. It's funny, that they are the most vocal with their opinions as well. My only gripe with TD has been his lack of selecting good O-line players in his years here. What we have now is only coming together as a group. Until some of them make the PB, I won't change my opinion on this matter. And if some do, I'll be humble about it and apologize. 138390[/snapback] The PB part of it is meaningless. It's pretty much a popularity contest and we should know that as well as any fans out there (cough, cough Ruben Brown, cough). I sincerely believe there is enough talent here now to win - it just takes coaching and a little time. We haven't had either of those in 3 years with that particular group. What we witnessed yesterday in the passing game was nothing short of magnificent (sans Price's "ole'" block). I'm not saying we shouldn't try and improve upfront (if you ain't getting better, you're getting worse), but it isn't anywhere near what it was just one season ago.
IDBillzFan Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 What we witnessed yesterday in the passing game was nothing short of magnificent (sans Price's "ole'" block). 138504[/snapback] You're kidding, right? You realize that Bledsoe threw three picks, right? And he should have avoided that sack by stepping up. I suppose you were impressed by the opening drive, too! And by all his third and long conversions! Misleading. All of it. TIMMAH!!! (Okay, I'll stop with the Timmah thing now.)
Alaska Darin Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 You're kidding, right? You realize that Bledsoe threw three picks, right? And he should have avoided that sack by stepping up. I suppose you were impressed by the opening drive, too! And by all his third and long conversions! Misleading. All of it. TIMMAH!!! (Okay, I'll stop with the Timmah thing now.) 138510[/snapback] Don't stop.* *It's been awhile since you heard that, huh?
/dev/null Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Peter King has been know to change his position as often as John Kerry
_BiB_ Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 Don't stop.**It's been awhile since you heard that, huh? 138521[/snapback] That's pretty cold. Even for you.
cåblelady Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 TIMMAH!!! (Okay, I'll stop with the Timmah thing now.) 138510[/snapback] Please don't. Everytime I read it I LMAO. (My ex's name is Tim).
/dev/null Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 TIMMAH!!! (Okay, I'll stop with the Timmah thing now.) 138510[/snapback] livin' a lie!
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted November 29, 2004 Posted November 29, 2004 You're kidding, right? You realize that Bledsoe threw three picks, right? And he should have avoided that sack by stepping up. I suppose you were impressed by the opening drive, too! And by all his third and long conversions! Misleading. All of it. TIMMAH!!! (Okay, I'll stop with the Timmah thing now.) 138510[/snapback] No, you shold not be impressed at all with Bledsoe's performance, the thing to be impressed about that this team employs a great combination of good defense, very good special teams play and very good running to win a game going away on the road against a division leading team even when the QB throws 3 pics and gets sacked on a tackle he could have avoided. One of the unfortunate pieces of fallout from the great and unprcedented QB draft of 1983 and the great play of Jim Kelly is that many fans (and a lot of professionals) are too dependent on the notion that a team capable of winning the SB MUST spend heavily to get a QB. The experience of EVERY team that has drafted a QB in the first round since 1989 has provided evidence that this simply is not true. In fact, when you look at the inital salaries of the most recent SB, the salary of 2 time reject Brad Johnson with TD leads the pack and QB stalwarts like Dilfer, Brady and Warner were acquired at at near the vet minimum. Time after time the Bills have given up too much in an attempt to make up for past QB faux pas as they have attempted to find the next Jim Kelly. Instead they: 1. Invested in Kelly a year longer than they should have and delayed picking their QB of the future by a year later than they should have when they reached with a 2nd rounder for TC. 2. Rushed TC along too fast for his level of talent and failed to develop him well. 3. Reached for Billy Joe Hobert with a 3rd rounder and he was so bad he got cut. 4. Over-reached by signing a sweetheart deal with RJ which was made even worse by the deal with DF which rolled achieved incentives into his base pay. 5. Trade for Bledsoe which was fine in my book, but resigning him this off-season is something I think we should not have done. Be impressed definitely but be impressed that we finally are going toward the Trent Dilfer method of winning it all which makes more sense for us than the John Elway or Joe Montana method because neither of these two are going to happen for us.
Astrobot Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 I'm extremely impressed with this thread b/c: (1) It's about football. (2) People are disagreeing without namecalling. (3) People are being articulate, backing up their opinions with evidence. The reasons I love TSW! This Thread =\= RJ
KRT88 Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 When the Bills made the pick I loved the move because so many defensive linemen had already been picked. When the Bills drafted Kelsay in round two, I just loved the pick even more because Kelsay was one of the few the other guys I would have picked at #23. During the 2003 season I started to dislike the move because we obviously needed help elsewhere and it appeared as though the pick was a complete waste. I have to give TD credit, he took a risk and that risk appears to be paying off. 700+ yards in 6 starts isn't all that bad. Can't wait to see how good this kid can become, because he appears to have limitless ability.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 9. I think Willis McGahee, today, is one of the 10 best backs in football. And tomorrow he might be one of the five. He runs with power and enough shiftiness and speed to make big people miss. As much as I didn't like the drafting of McGahee because the Bills had Travis Henry, I must say Tom Donahoe's gut instincts on this kid were dead-on: McGahee is going to be a very good back in this league, and he improves the Bills at that position. 137976[/snapback] The big Peter King mistake in my book (and one he apparently continues to make) is not realizing that it was the prescence of Travis Henry which made the WM drafting doable and work out so well for the Bills. Unless a team had a go-to RB they could count on, the tendency to satisfy the customers wishes by playing WM before he was ready to play would have been huge. Even this year, we fans noticed that WM at the start of this season did not have all the gears and all the pop he has now. It was the ability for the Bills and their docs to bring WM along at his own which sppecifically happened because we had Henry that made this deal work for WM and for us.
KurtGodel77 Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 Let's look at what happened because we didn't have a first round pick who could help us right away last year. 1. We went 6-10 instead of, say, 8-8. 2. Because we went 6-10, we fired Gregg Williams, and hired Mike Mularkey. 3. Also because we went 6-10, we were able to draft Lee Evans; instead of the lesser WR we would have had to settle for if our pick was later in the round. 4. Now we have one of the best RBs in the NFL!!
SilverNRed Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 Let's look at what happened because we didn't have a first round pick who could help us right away last year. 1. We went 6-10 instead of, say, 8-8. 2. Because we went 6-10, we fired Gregg Williams, and hired Mike Mularkey. 3. Also because we went 6-10, we were able to draft Lee Evans; instead of the lesser WR we would have had to settle for if our pick was later in the round. 4. Now we have one of the best RBs in the NFL!! 139002[/snapback] I agree with all of that but we should try to hold off on building that giant bronze Mularkey statue (#2). He definitely looks great right about now but there were some times during GW's reign of terror where the team played pretty well too. So far, so good, though.
BradRiter Posted November 30, 2004 Posted November 30, 2004 I can. McGahee on Antuan Edwards against Miami earlier this year. Edwards had sent him flying out of bounds on a late hit earlier in the game. McGahee got another shot at him in the fourth quarter and knocked his sorry ass right out of the game. 138175[/snapback] Does Antowain Smith's deathblow to Eric Turner count? Was that out of line? Sorry.
Recommended Posts