Spiller + Edwards =

[Alphadawg7]

A match made in heaven?

 

I'm not really advocating for this, but does anyone think that Spiller might be the perfect compliment to Captain Checkdown?

 

Maybe Gailey et al. do and obviously see the potential for big plays resulting from dump-offs to Spiller in the flat.

 

Conversely, whoever is our QB is going to see the middle of the field open if defenses are forced to respect the threat of an outside swing pass. I see big things for Shawn Nelson this year, and whichever of our WRs wind up in the slot or find themselves slanting across the middle.

 

Of course we need to wait to see who else is drafted- but as it stands I'm pumped that Spiller alone instantly improves our ENTIRE offense!

 

None of this matters as Trent will not be the starting QB of the Buffalo Bills in 2010...We will either acquire Campbell/Vick or Brohm will win the job if we dont bring anyone else in.

 

Here is why...they already know they cant win with Trent...been proven time and time again, I mean he couldnt even win that game against Cle last year where they were DA was like 3 of 15 passing. More proof of this is the all the reported interest they have had in several QB's like Campbell, Vick, Jackson, etc. that havent exactly been consistent themselves. If they really felt they could win with Trent, then we wouldnt even be exploring these other QB's who are somewhat developing projects still themselves.

 

I am convinced that the staff, FO, and even the players dont really think they can win with Trent. If he comes in and has a great preseason and camp, then so be it, the job should be his if he wins it. However, if the race is close, even if Trent has been slightly better than Brohm, I think the staff will give the nod to Brohm because Trents cieling is low and Brohms is high. So, I dont even think Brohm has to completely outplay Trent to win this job, he just has to be close in the race and I think he will win the job.

 

If they both struggle, then Fitz could have a shot of winning the job, but I dont think Fitz is going to outplay both of them IMO.

[Guest dog14787]

I wouldn't make this comment unless I've witnessed personally and on some tapes that there are just too many instances where he has a guy downfield, where that route is the first read, and he simply chooses to ignore it. I wish I was wrong but I don't think I am.

 

One also needs time to go through his progressions, something Edwards is VERY good at. But again, even when given that time there are too many instances where he ignores the primary receiver and looks to make the safe play. There is nothing inherently wrong with making safe plays for positive yards. Every QB is taught to do that. But there IS something wrong when guys are open and not getting the ball on a consistent basis.

 

Something changed in Edwards and he hasn't been the same and I say it's his confidence. He's playing scared. Some of that has to do with his confidence in his OL and justifiably so. But much of it also has to do with his simple decision NOT to make an attempt when there are guys open.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

You would have to be standing in TE's shoes to really know what he can see at his elevation and everything is done on timing so its easy for us to second guess after the fact.

[DrFishfinder]

A match made in heaven?

 

I'm not really advocating for this, but does anyone think that Spiller might be the perfect compliment to Captain Checkdown?

 

Maybe Gailey et al. do and obviously see the potential for big plays resulting from dump-offs to Spiller in the flat.

 

Conversely, whoever is our QB is going to see the middle of the field open if defenses are forced to respect the threat of an outside swing pass. I see big things for Shawn Nelson this year, and whichever of our WRs wind up in the slot or find themselves slanting across the middle.

 

Of course we need to wait to see who else is drafted- but as it stands I'm pumped that Spiller alone instantly improves our ENTIRE offense!

First off, I am okay with the Spiller pick. Just to get that out of the way.

 

But.....if they start dumping off to Spiller, he isn't going to last the season given his size and the Bills so-called blocking schemes. Last season, the backs (and receivers) getting dump-offs in the flats were flattened before they took 2 steps. Defenses knew exactly what was coming and DB's loaded up and just annihilated the poor receiver. Yeah, I know it's a new HC & so forth, but unless they have a magic wand and some serious mojo dust, I don't see the blocking improving enough to keep CJ from eventually looking like he got hit with a Harpootlian Disruptor Beam if they send him out in the flat and el dumpo huge-o.

 

So for God's sake, if the Bills took the kid with the #1 pick, lets hope they have enough brains to do whatever they can to keep him on the field and out of intensive care.

[tennesseeboy]

Good point.

 

For all the you tube links pointing out the Spiller highlight films, I got one nobody wants to see.

 

Just search on you tube "Alabama Clemson 2008 football"

 

Here's a quick summary:

 

CJ Spiller

 

Rushing -

2 attempts for 7 yards, longest was 8 yards

 

Receiving -

2 catches for 27 yards

 

but he did have a 96 yard KO return for a TD

 

And no, he was not hurt before or during the game.

 

Clemson got destroyed 34-10.

 

This is what happens when a "speed" backs OL cannot get a push for the running game, and the OL is getting blown up in the passing game.

 

 

And before anybody gets their panties in a twist, I am not calling this draft a "waste" or a "joke".

I realize the draft is far from over, and the draft itself will be judged on ALL picks.

 

But you will excuse me if I do not get "giddy" over drafting a situational/role type player

(and yes, every scouting report I have read lists Spiller as such. Not a single one states he is or will be an every down player) until I see if the Bills plan on getting other players that allows them to take advantage of Spiller's speed.

you could have called the pick a "waste" or a "joke". We'll have to wait until tomorrow before we know whether the draft was a joke or waste.

[K-9]

OMG!

I swear if the Bills had drafted a water boy 1st TSW would be praising it as the answer to all that's wrong with the Bills. "He's got good speed so he'll be able to get those water bottles out on the field faster. He's got freakish strength so he can carry more water. He's a smart guy so he'll get the best spring water he can find." Come on people he's Fred Jackson part II. I'll say it right here and now... If he runs for more yards than than Jackson did this past year I'll be the first to admit I was wrong!

 

Fred Jackson part II? I think you're right. Jackson was also one of the most prolific players in NCAA history with 50 TDs, 21 of which were 50 yards or more. Freddy was also rated number 1 at his position going into the draft. That's why Freddy was selected in the first round. No need to mention any other similarities. That would be redundant.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Guest dog14787]

None of this matters as Trent will not be the starting QB of the Buffalo Bills in 2010...We will either acquire Campbell/Vick or Brohm will win the job if we dont bring anyone else in.

 

Here is why...they already know they cant win with Trent...been proven time and time again, I mean he couldnt even win that game against Cle last year where they were DA was like 3 of 15 passing. More proof of this is the all the reported interest they have had in several QB's like Campbell, Vick, Jackson, etc. that havent exactly been consistent themselves. If they really felt they could win with Trent, then we wouldnt even be exploring these other QB's who are somewhat developing projects still themselves.

 

I am convinced that the staff, FO, and even the players dont really think they can win with Trent. If he comes in and has a great preseason and camp, then so be it, the job should be his if he wins it. However, if the race is close, even if Trent has been slightly better than Brohm, I think the staff will give the nod to Brohm because Trents cieling is low and Brohms is high. So, I dont even think Brohm has to completely outplay Trent to win this job, he just has to be close in the race and I think he will win the job.

 

If they both struggle, then Fitz could have a shot of winning the job, but I dont think Fitz is going to outplay both of them IMO.

 

You know dawg as much as I like TE I would have to agree with you because if he can't show he's head and shoulders above the rest and Brohm looks promising early on then maybe Brohm should get the nod.( I like Brohm)

 

Personally, I think TE is going to impress Gailey enough to win the job, but if he doesn't then its time for a change.

[Cynical]

To be fair Cynical, you also leave out that he was the 1B to James Davis in that game, which gave him even less touches. At the time, Bowden I believe let Spiller only do third down and outside work (unlike Dabo who used him in all facets on offense his senior year).

 

Yes, Davis was supposed to be the "Thunder" while Spiller was supposed to be the "Lightning" in that game. Davis touched the ball only 6 times.

 

Dabo used Spiller full time because he had no other choice. Davis was gone. Besides, it's not like ACC is full of dominate defenses. The strongest D (in the ACC) probably belongs to Virginia Tech, and Clemson did not play against them.

 

Also, Clemson's defense was a sieve and Alabama ran a ton, which also helped to make that game go by with even Spiller not being able to help (despite the aforementioned KR).

 

Bama's DL was all over the Clemson OL. They could not run the ball, period.

 

People are missing the big picture. It will be harder than hell to run the ball if the OL cannot get any push. Spiller strength is in open field, outside the tackles, not inside the tackles. He cannot carry anyone or power through people.

 

Until the Bills OL gets better, especially at the tackle positions, Spiller's skill set is going to go to waste.

[Alphadawg7]

You know dawg as much as I like TE I would have to agree with you because if he can't show he's head and shoulders above the rest and Brohm looks promising early on then maybe Brohm should get the nod.( I like Brohm)

 

Personally, I think TE is going to impress Gailey enough to win the job, but if he doesn't then its time for a change.

 

Yeah, if TE comes out and takes command of the position and wins over the staff, then so be it, he should start the season as the starter. If its a close race and he hasnt really seperated himself from the pack, then I just dont see him getting the job, even if he was a little better than Brohm in a close race because his upside at this point is low while Brohm's is high until proven otherwise on the field through real game experience.

 

I actually think a trade for Campbell using a 5th or 6th round pick is still quite plausible. I personally think Brohm has a ton of upside and would rather see what he can do this year over Campbell who just hasnt really been anything more than average thus far. But, a low round pick for Campbell also is a low price to pay, so I would be ok with his acquisition.

[Kelly the Dog]

People are missing the big picture. It will be harder than hell to run the ball if the OL cannot get any push. Spiller strength is in open field, outside the tackles, not inside the tackles. He cannot carry anyone or power through people.

 

Until the Bills OL gets better, especially at the tackle positions, Spiller's skill set is going to go to waste.

 

 

That's an extremely simplistic if not downright laughable position on running in between the tackles. Spiller doesn't need to carry anyone or power through people, although he has decent toughness and strength. The Bills strength, if Wood is back and he and Levitre have improved in their second year, may be up the middle. The advantage of a Spiller is if he gets a crease, he makes one of his ridiculous cuts and acceleration and he is gone. A 5 yard carry for Jackson or Lynch is a 55 yard score. Up the middle and not around the end.

[MississippiBob]

IIRC, many on here were saying the same things about TO last year.

 

TO was going to relieve the double team off of Evans, can't cover both, make the whole team better, give Edwards another weapon, etc ...

 

and IIRC, that move failed miserably. (Come on, anybody really expect 1, ONE, player to have that kind of impact?)

 

 

One question I have for everyone on this board. How can we tell what kind of talent the Bills' have when their coaching and front office have been so inept? We scream for new q.b.'s, new tackles, etc., and this very well might be needed. However, I believe Nix/Gailey and company have a different result in their evaluation of the present roster. Last year T.O. should have helped taken the double-team off Evans, yet due to poor play calling, injuries to the o-line, etc., it never materialized. Spiller was drafted as an offensive weapon. Buffalo needs to score more points. Eventhough I am a die-hard Bills' fan who has watched every game for decades, I really do not know what kind of talent they have on this present team. Jauron's regime failed miserably in verifying who can play ball on this team and who is unable. This will be an interesting year in that at the end of 2010, I think a clear picture will develope and a strategy can then be formulated for a winning team.

[K-9]

You would have to be standing in TE's shoes to really know what he can see at his elevation and everything is done on timing so its easy for us to second guess after the fact.

 

Let's agree to disagree then. But when you can witness things in real time with a full view of the route patterns and coverages and can plainly see there is time and an open primary receiver it's NOT second guessing after the fact. It's DURING the play where I've done my second guessing.

 

And while I appreciate your idea that one needs to see the field from a QBs "elevation" to understand what a QB sees, that's simply not true. One can see if passing lanes and open receivers aren't there from just sitting in the upper endzone. Much of the tape coaches use in their evaluations is from that perspective. I DO agree that having to do all of what a QB has to do in less than 4 seconds in the face of a rush and various coverage schemes is something most of us can't appreciate without being in his shoes but again, that isn't required in order to critique a QB's performance. Where we have to be careful as fans is realizing we don't know the context of play call relative to everyone's assignments but even then it's plainly obvious when a QB misses an open opportunity.

 

You make an excellent point when you reference timing. And it's something I've seen in Edwards as well. Whether it's a 3,5, or 7 step drop his timing is usually pretty good relative to the route patterns being run (that's what timing is). Again, adequate protection comes into play and justifiably so. But on those open plays, when he gets to that moment of decision and he hesitates, the timing is blown up. Again, that hesitation is born out of lack of confidence.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Cynical]

You need to watch more film on Spiller because you can't tackle what you can't catch and allot less blitzing will be going on with him in the backfield because when he breaks the first line of defense and gets into open space he could go all the way.

 

 

You need to watch Spiller during a game, and not just pay attention to those you tube "highlight" videos.

 

Linky 1

 

"Power: The power aspect of the position is not his forte. He eludes contact because of his quickness and agility, but not as a result of him being soft. He will put his head down when he has to, but he doesn’t push piles forward. If a tackler can get their hands on him with any strength and balance, he won’t break the tackle. Doesn’t have a thick base to run through arm tackles."

 

Linky 2

 

"Spiller lacks the bulk needed to be an every down back, doesn't break tackles well, and struggles running tackle to tackle."

 

I also recently read where Spiller got tackled behind the LOS quite often. Trying to find that article again.

[Cynical]

That's an extremely simplistic if not downright laughable position on running in between the tackles. Spiller doesn't need to carry anyone or power through people, although he has decent toughness and strength. The Bills strength, if Wood is back and he and Levitre have improved in their second year, may be up the middle. The advantage of a Spiller is if he gets a crease, he makes one of his ridiculous cuts and acceleration and he is gone. A 5 yard carry for Jackson or Lynch is a 55 yard score. Up the middle and not around the end.

 

Linky 1

 

"All that being said, Spiller lacks the bulk needed to be an every down back, doesn't break tackles well, and struggles running tackle to tackle. Because of this, he has a tendency to want to pop everything to the outside, and that costs him yards. "

 

Linky 2

 

"Power: Inconsistent as an inside runner. Finds creases well and dashes through them, but doesn't always like to run inside. Doesn't break a lot of tackles because he runs somewhat upright and allows defenders into his frame. Needs to be more assertive running inside. Not a downhill runner."

 

 

Again, running into the heart of defense is NOT Spiller's forte. Practically every scouting report states that.

And from what I have seen him play, he is much more effective outside than inside.

He is best in space. Get him in a crowd where it is easier to put a hand on him, and Spiller is going down.

[bills in va]

Edwards + ___________(anyone)=failure!

[PDaDdy]

You need to watch Spiller during a game, and not just pay attention to those you tube "highlight" videos.

 

Linky 1

 

"Power: The power aspect of the position is not his forte. He eludes contact because of his quickness and agility, but not as a result of him being soft. He will put his head down when he has to, but he doesn’t push piles forward. If a tackler can get their hands on him with any strength and balance, he won’t break the tackle. Doesn’t have a thick base to run through arm tackles."

 

Linky 2

 

"Spiller lacks the bulk needed to be an every down back, doesn't break tackles well, and struggles running tackle to tackle."

 

I also recently read where Spiller got tackled behind the LOS quite often. Trying to find that article again.

 

 

So....basically Spiller isn't a full back or Marshawn Lynch. Is that what you are saying?

[EastRochBillsfan]

The only thing that will slow down a pass rush is the belief the QB will beat them down field.

 

And since Trentative refuses to attack the field, choosing instead to constantly dump it off, defenses will sit on those short routes, just waiting for Trent to toss the ball.

 

It will not matter how fast Spiller is, his speed will be negated by the ball being intercepted, or having a defensive player in his face as soon as he catches the ball. Spiller's strength is not in breaking tackles, even arm tackles. Put a hand on him, and he's going down.

who says trent is going to be the quaterback?

[dakine_guy]

TO - 35 and in clearly not the same player he was 5 years ago

Spiller - early 20's and after the same mold of Chris Johnson.

 

Is this really even a discussion?

 

 

If they do keep Lynch the think of this setup. 3 back in the back field with Evans and the only wideout. I think this could really cause some real confusion out there.

 

Posting but I'm Excited to see CJ out there.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

Good point.

 

For all the you tube links pointing out the Spiller highlight films, I got one nobody wants to see.

 

Just search on you tube "Alabama Clemson 2008 football"

 

Here's a quick summary:

 

CJ Spiller

 

Rushing -

2 attempts for 7 yards, longest was 8 yards

 

Receiving -

2 catches for 27 yards

 

but he did have a 96 yard KO return for a TD

 

And no, he was not hurt before or during the game.

 

Clemson got destroyed 34-10.

 

This is what happens when a "speed" backs OL cannot get a push for the running game, and the OL is getting blown up in the passing game.

 

 

And before anybody gets their panties in a twist, I am not calling this draft a "waste" or a "joke".

I realize the draft is far from over, and the draft itself will be judged on ALL picks.

 

But you will excuse me if I do not get "giddy" over drafting a situational/role type player

(and yes, every scouting report I have read lists Spiller as such. Not a single one states he is or will be an every down player) until I see if the Bills plan on getting other players that allows them to take advantage of Spiller's speed.

 

You know there are 6 more rounds to go. Right?

[Kelly the Dog]

Linky 1

 

"All that being said, Spiller lacks the bulk needed to be an every down back, doesn't break tackles well, and struggles running tackle to tackle. Because of this, he has a tendency to want to pop everything to the outside, and that costs him yards. "

 

Linky 2

 

"Power: Inconsistent as an inside runner. Finds creases well and dashes through them, but doesn't always like to run inside. Doesn't break a lot of tackles because he runs somewhat upright and allows defenders into his frame. Needs to be more assertive running inside. Not a downhill runner."

 

 

Again, running into the heart of defense is NOT Spiller's forte. Practically every scouting report states that.

And from what I have seen him play, he is much more effective outside than inside.

He is best in space. Get him in a crowd where it is easier to put a hand on him, and Spiller is going down.

This is the best site overall that I found for evaluation and analysis.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospec...w;pageContainer

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players...w;pageContainer

Here is the first thing they said about him under evaluation about running inside:

Inside: Known as a speed back, he has strong muscle definition throughout his frame and runs a lot tougher than most give him credit for. Most dangerous when starting inside and using his quick feet and vision to bounce outside, but isn't afraid to take it north-south if that's what's needed. Keeps his pads down and legs moving through trash inside, often falling forward for extra yardage. Will be challenged to hang onto the ball when facing strong NFL linebackers.

I'm not saying he is better inside than outside, he's not. But he is very effective running through a crease and then making one cut. He is also not going to be asked much to be either a workhorse back or a power runner, and will get his 20 touches different than most other players get their 20 touches.

[EastRochBillsfan]

Linky 1

 

"All that being said, Spiller lacks the bulk needed to be an every down back, doesn't break tackles well, and struggles running tackle to tackle. Because of this, he has a tendency to want to pop everything to the outside, and that costs him yards. "

 

Linky 2

 

"Power: Inconsistent as an inside runner. Finds creases well and dashes through them, but doesn't always like to run inside. Doesn't break a lot of tackles because he runs somewhat upright and allows defenders into his frame. Needs to be more assertive running inside. Not a downhill runner."

 

 

Again, running into the heart of defense is NOT Spiller's forte. Practically every scouting report states that.

And from what I have seen him play, he is much more effective outside than inside.

He is best in space. Get him in a crowd where it is easier to put a hand on him, and Spiller is going down.

 

so, then put him in space.