Joaquin1119 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-g...tereotype042010 I think this kid has a big heart, I believe he going to do well in NFL
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 This is silly. I like Gerhart and think he definitely has a place in the NFL. But to claim race is holding him back is dumb. It's the NFL. If you can play, you can play. Fact is that Gerhart is a big brusier type back. They are good for change of pace type backs but you can't soley rely on them. Everyone in the pros is strong and won't be intimidated by them. How many big brusiers have been great backs in the NFL? Jacobs proved he can't carry the load this year by himself and there is talk the Giants are drafting his replacement. Bettis is the only big guy I can think of that had a great career. Race has nothing to do with his evaluation IMO.
yungmack Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 This is silly. I like Gerhart and think he definitely has a place in the NFL. But to claim race is holding him back is dumb. It's the NFL. If you can play, you can play. Fact is that Gerhart is a big brusier type back. They are good for change of pace type backs but you can't soley rely on them. Everyone in the pros is strong and won't be intimidated by them. How many big brusiers have been great backs in the NFL? Jacobs proved he can't carry the load this year by himself and there is talk the Giants are drafting his replacement. Bettis is the only big guy I can think of that had a great career. Race has nothing to do with his evaluation IMO. Here are a few other big bruiser backs: John Riggins, Jim Brown, Larry Czonka, Christian Okoye, Earl Campbell, Cookie Gilchrist, Mike Alstott. There are surely many more that just haven't popped into my head. BTW, Lynch is the Bills bruiser, and if his situation isn't resolved to Nixley's satisfaction, I believe the Bills will draft a roadgrader back later in the draft. I'd be happy if that guy was Gerhardt.
thebandit27 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 This is silly. I like Gerhart and think he definitely has a place in the NFL. But to claim race is holding him back is dumb. It's the NFL. If you can play, you can play. Fact is that Gerhart is a big brusier type back. They are good for change of pace type backs but you can't soley rely on them. Everyone in the pros is strong and won't be intimidated by them. How many big brusiers have been great backs in the NFL? Jacobs proved he can't carry the load this year by himself and there is talk the Giants are drafting his replacement. Bettis is the only big guy I can think of that had a great career. Race has nothing to do with his evaluation IMO. I don't mean to make a social commentary here, but of course race is going to affect his draft position. I don't think it's because of any specific prejudice, I just think it's a pracital matter. Black people are generally better athletes than white people. I'm white, and a former athlete, and I have no problem admitting that. Whether people choose to acknowledge it or not, that simple generality has to have at least some affect on how scouts evaluate an athlete. Now, if he's a good enough player, it shouldn't matter what his skin color is, so from that standpoint I agree with you. I guess all I'm really trying to say is that I believe it's natural for anyone to make a categorial inference based on appearance, but that scouts (and everyone else for that matter) should be responsible enough to take things on a case-by-case basis.
Red Squirrel Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Here are a few other big bruiser backs: John Riggins, Jim Brown, Larry Czonka, Christian Okoye, Earl Campbell, Cookie Gilchrist, Mike Alstott. There are surely many more that just haven't popped into my head. BTW, Lynch is the Bills bruiser, and if his situation isn't resolved to Nixley's satisfaction, I believe the Bills will draft a roadgrader back later in the draft. I'd be happy if that guy was Gerhardt. Among those bruising backs, there still are differences. I can't talk about Gilchrist, but the others fall into two categories; Riggins and Brown were tough guys who also had some ability to avoid contact, but the rest of your list are guys who deliberately ran into defenders over and over again. Which is pretty much what Gerhart does. And if you notice, other than Czonka, those guys didn't last long. I like Gerhart; he isn't going to last long, either.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Interesting article. Thanks for posting. My personal concern in drafting Gerhart has to do with how durable he would be. Some of the scouts are suggesting that his running style will lend itself to a lot of punishment which, having seen him play, I think is valid. Most of the time he was the one administering the punishment but it's a big step up to the pros. If you've watched power backs over the decades, for the most part they've tended to have short careers. Running backs in general have short careers and that's why so many of them are now willing to accept the trend of being a part of a two-back system. They realize that the money they will lose by not being the "bell-cow" running back can be made up by having a longer career. I've predicted a short career for Marion Barber and for Marshawn Lynch. The concept of power running is self-defeating to having a long career, IMO. To have long careers, most backs today need to split carries. For some perspective (active players bolded): Jerome Bettis >3600 touches LaDanian Tomlinson >3400 touches John Riggins <3200 touches Jim Brown >2600 touches Clinton Portis >2400 touches Earl Campbell >2300 touches Jim Taylor <2200 touches Cookie Gilchrist >2000 touches, nearly 900 in the CFL Larry Csonka <2000 touches Steven Jackson >1800 touches Mike Alstott <1600 touches Larry Johnson <1600 touches Jim Nance <1500 touches Christian Okoye >1300 touches James Braxton <900 touches Brandon Jacobs >800 touches Most of these guys are power backs and are at the high end as far as odometer readings go. There are lots of other power backs that haven't made this list. Don't know how I got off on this tangent. Anyways, I love Gerhart but would be concerned about his durability. Just my instinct.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Here are a few other big bruiser backs: John Riggins, Jim Brown, Larry Czonka, Christian Okoye, Earl Campbell, Cookie Gilchrist, Mike Alstott. There are surely many more that just haven't popped into my head. BTW, Lynch is the Bills bruiser, and if his situation isn't resolved to Nixley's satisfaction, I believe the Bills will draft a roadgrader back later in the draft. I'd be happy if that guy was Gerhardt. Most of those guys are from a different era; the most recent one, Alstott, was a short yardage specialist / fullback. Sure Mike stuck around for a while, but he also literally snapped his neck doing so. Race issues aside, I think most personnel guys are more concerned about using a high pick on a guy who might not last very long, unless he is paired with at least one other back.
Red Squirrel Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Interesting article. Thanks for posting. My personal concern in drafting Gerhart has to do with how durable he would be. Some of the scouts are suggesting that his running style will lend itself to a lot of punishment which, having seen him play, I think is valid. Most of the time he was the one administering the punishment but it's a big step up to the pros. If you've watched power backs over the decades, for the most part they've tended to have short careers. Running backs in general have short careers and that's why so many of them are now willing to accept the trend of being a part of a two-back system. They realize that the money they will lose by not being the "bell-cow" running back can be made up by having a longer career. I've predicted a short career for Marion Barber and for Marshawn Lynch. The concept of power running is self-defeating to having a long career, IMO. To have long careers, most backs today need to split carries. For some perspective (active players bolded): Jerome Bettis >3600 touches LaDanian Tomlinson >3400 touches John Riggins <3200 touches Jim Brown >2600 touches Clinton Portis >2400 touches Earl Campbell >2300 touches Jim Taylor <2200 touches Cookie Gilchrist >2000 touches, nearly 900 in the CFL Larry Csonka <2000 touches Steven Jackson >1800 touches Mike Alstott <1600 touches Larry Johnson <1600 touches Jim Nance <1500 touches Christian Okoye >1300 touches James Braxton <900 touches Brandon Jacobs >800 touches Most of these guys are power backs and are at the high end as far as odometer readings go. There are lots of other power backs that haven't made this list. Don't know how I got off on this tangent. Anyways, I love Gerhart but would be concerned about his durability. Just my instinct. Some of what we both just wrote overlaps, although I still think there are two different types of "power" backs...those that are hard to bring down, and those that just crash into people, and the crashers are the ones who really seem to have short careers. One thing that stands out is Campbell did have more carries than Csonka (with an s instead of a z....serves me right for trusting another poster's spelling against my own instincts ) . I still have to point out to the youngsters that Csonka played in a 2 and sometimes 3 back system (which backs up your major point), and in terms of years, did last a lot longer than Campbell, who was leaking oil (pun intended) at 26, and done at 30. Csonka retired after an 800 yd, 12 TD season (and a career high in carries) at 33, and his overall numbers are reduced by having spent a year in the WFL and 3 years with the highly dysfunctional mid-70s Giants. Anyway, we're both right .
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 Most of those guys are from a different era; the most recent one, Alstott, was a short yardage specialist / fullback. Sure Mike stuck around for a while, but he also literally snapped his neck doing so. Race issues aside, I think most personnel guys are more concerned about using a high pick on a guy who might not last very long, unless he is paired with at least one other back. Some of what we both just wrote overlaps, although I still think there are two different types of "power" backs...those that are hard to bring down, and those that just crash into people, and the crashers are the ones who really seem to have short careers. One thing that stands out is Campbell did have more carries than Csonka (with an s instead of a z....serves me right for trusting another poster's spelling against my own instincts ) . I still have to point out to the youngsters that Csonka played in a 2 and sometimes 3 back system (which backs up your major point), and in terms of years, did last a lot longer than Campbell, who was leaking oil (pun intended) at 26, and done at 30. Csonka retired after an 800 yd, 12 TD season (and a career high in carries) at 33, and his overall numbers are reduced by having spent a year in the WFL and 3 years with the highly dysfunctional mid-70s Giants. Anyway, we're both right . How strange, we all agree. An unfamiliar but strangely pleasurable occurrence. What do you guys think of short-armed tackles (whose arms aren't really short)?
Thoner7 Posted April 20, 2010 Posted April 20, 2010 No one can watch Gerhart and not be impressed. HIs game absolutetly translates to the NFL. Aside from Johnathan Dwyer and maybe Ryan Mathews - who I haven't seen play but I hear is very good - I bet Gerhardt is the best RB in this class. He is a total beast.
Joaquin1119 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Posted April 20, 2010 i be very happy if we pick up Gerhardt late in the draft pick. but most likely he might end up playing with the giants? I cant wait until this draft starts
Hossage Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 Black guys dont like blocking for a white running back, but they like tackling one. I may get flamed for this, but thats how it is. I know this from experience.
erynthered Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 Black guys dont like blocking for a white running back, but they like tackling one. I may get flamed for this, but thats how it is. I know this from experience. You should get flamed, cause you're an idiot. Or give details of your bias.
Hossage Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 I dont mean this as some kind of negative overall statement about races or something. I dont really feel like going into it any more than this. If you disagree with me, why did you call me an idiot? I dont think what I said was completely unreasonable.
erynthered Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 I dont mean this as some kind of negative overall statement about races or something. I dont really feel like going into it any more than this. If you disagree with me, why did you call me an idiot? I dont think what I said was completely unreasonable. Do you have any recall of what you just posted, and how it can be precieved? You even youself said you thought you'd get pelted. Again here's what you said: Black guys dont like blocking for a white running back, but they like tackling one. I may get flamed for this, but thats how it is. I know this from experience. Tell me how I'm miscontrruing your post?
bluenews Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 I don't think he would fit into a NASCAR either?
BuffOrange Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 “One team I interviewed with asked me about being a white running back,” Gerhart says. “They asked if it made me feel entitled, or like I felt I was a poster child for white running backs. WTF? I've been on some bad interviews but wow. "Ya I'm totally filing a discriminatory suit against all 32 owners if I'm not starting opening day".
purple haze Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 Here are a few other big bruiser backs: John Riggins, Jim Brown, Larry Czonka, Christian Okoye, Earl Campbell, Cookie Gilchrist, Mike Alstott. There are surely many more that just haven't popped into my head. BTW, Lynch is the Bills bruiser, and if his situation isn't resolved to Nixley's satisfaction, I believe the Bills will draft a roadgrader back later in the draft. I'd be happy if that guy was Gerhardt. He won't be there later in the draft. Probably gone in 2nd or 3rd latest. And Gailey already said he wants a scat back type of RB.
Slack_in_MA Posted April 21, 2010 Posted April 21, 2010 Black guys dont like blocking for a white running back, but they like tackling one. I may get flamed for this, but thats how it is. I know this from experience. Put away the broad brush. You're painting sh1t stripes that are a little too wide.
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