The Doc is in the house... weighing in

[Dr. Trooth]

It's a no brainer that the Bills need a couple of bookend tackles, a nose, a 3-4 DE, an OLB, and a QB. But... the Bills need a player to make an immediate impact now and for the next several years. I don't see any tackle or def. player (or QB) that will fall to #9 that will do that. That's why I'm guessin it's Spiller at #9.

 

The bargaining chips the Bills have are Lynch, Whitner, Schobel, and possibly Edwards. Bills really need to move Lynch, Whitner and Schobel for sure... none of them figure into the Bills future plans. With the extendo draft time, the chances of dealing one or more of these guys is a distinct possibility.

 

If the Bills don't select Spiller a #9, I've got a gut feelin they trade down 10-15 spots and pick up an extra #2.... that's where I think they pull the string for sure on a LT and either a RT or NT. Unless they give up Whitner and Lynch, I don't see them looking at QB til at least round 3, and maybe not even then.

 

 

 

Edwards might be salvageable. I only say so because there was a night and day difference in his performance after he was creamed unabatedly by Adrian Young. He's not been close to the same. Gailey's offensive knowledge is 35,000 feet above whatever Fairchild, Schonert, and VanPelt could design and implement... so maybe Gailey's offensive wisdom and perhaps a move to more of a spread formation might be better suited to Edwards... maybe not. If not, there's still Fitz, Brohm and maybe Hasselbeck, Bulger, Campbell.... and even Roethlisberger (?????), or someone to guide the ship for a year. The way I see it, the Bills could easily finish 4-12 without solid QB play and position themselves to land a QB in the top five next year.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

A great pass rusher (and there are several in this draft) wouldn't make an immediate impact?

 

Imagine this defensive backfield with a great pass rush augmenting them.

[H2o]

A great pass rusher (and there are several in this draft) wouldn't make an immediate impact?

 

Imagine this defensive backfield with a great pass rush augmenting them.

Our defensive backfield was good. It's our run defense that needs to be sured up. I hold out hope for Maybin being able to make an impact as a rush backer in the 3-4. I think he will greatly benefit from getting a jump standing upright on the outside. If we can get the space eater we need to clog up the middle and an additional rush backer for the outside somewhere in the draft our defense turns out good. I just don't see us needing to use our 1st on an OLB. I would consider Kindle maybe, but not really any others.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

A great pass rusher (and there are several in this draft) wouldn't make an immediate impact?

 

Imagine this defensive backfield with a great pass rush augmenting them.

 

 

Our defensive backfield was good. It's our run defense that needs to be sured up. I hold out hope for Maybin being able to make an impact as a rush backer in the 3-4. I think he will greatly benefit from getting a jump standing upright on the outside. If we can get the space eater we need to clog up the middle and an additional rush backer for the outside somewhere in the draft our defense turns out good. I just don't see us needing to use our 1st on an OLB. I would consider Kindle maybe, but not really any others.

I don't totally disagree with you, H2o. But I do think people are over-valuing the run stuffer and under-valuing the pass rusher, knowing full well that I'm in the minority on this one.

 

The NFL is a passing league. NFL teams on average pass about 60% of the time. The top offensive teams are all passing teams. New Orleans, Indy, New England, San Diego, Minnesota, Green Bay, Arizona. Again, it's a passing league. As a defense, you'd be happy to be so strong against the pass that teams were relegated to running the ball against you.

 

I feel with the additions of Dwan Edwards and Andra Davis that the Bills will be able to "sell out" against the run on run downs and be reasonably effective in improving their run defense.

 

I also feel the elite defenses are the ones which can pressure the quarterback and force turnovers.

 

It's kind of a chicken and egg debate. One can say that Pittsburgh's perennial defensive success has a great deal to do with NT Casey Hampton. Or one can argue that it has more to do with the succession of great pass rushers they've had at linebacker (predating Hampton)...Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Chad Browne, James Harrison, LaMarr Woodley, etc.

 

There's no clear answer but I have no problem with an elite pass rusher at #9.

[H2o]

I don't totally disagree with you, H2o. But I do think people are over-valuing the run stuffer and under-valuing the pass rusher, knowing full well that I'm in the minority on this one.

 

The NFL is a passing league. NFL teams on average pass about 60% of the time. The top offensive teams are all passing teams. New Orleans, Indy, New England, San Diego, Minnesota, Green Bay, Arizona. Again, it's a passing league. As a defense, you'd be happy to be so strong against the pass that teams were relegated to running the ball against you.

 

I feel with the additions of Dwan Edwards and Andra Davis that the Bills will be able to "sell out" against the run on run downs and be reasonably effective in improving their run defense.

 

I also feel the elite defenses are the ones which can pressure the quarterback and force turnovers.

 

It's kind of a chicken and egg debate. One can say that Pittsburgh's perennial defensive success has a great deal to do with NT Casey Hampton. Or one can argue that it has more to do with the succession of great pass rushers they've had at linebacker (predating Hampton)...Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Chad Browne, James Harrison, LaMarr Woodley, etc.

 

There's no clear answer but I have no problem with an elite pass rusher at #9.

I see what you're saying bro. I think it's a combo of both. If they didn't have Hampton in the middle opposing teams would be able to focus more of the attention to the pressure off of the edge. But if they didn't have pass rushers they could move the pocket all day long to buy a QB more time. Pass rushers are also less effective if the other team can just run the ball on you all day long. That's what makes both Harrison and Woodley special is them being stout in either circumstance.

[Phlegm Alley]

It's a no brainer that the Bills need a couple of bookend tackles, a nose, a 3-4 DE, an OLB, and a QB. But... the Bills need a player to make an immediate impact now and for the next several years. I don't see any tackle or def. player (or QB) that will fall to #9 that will do that. That's why I'm guessin it's Spiller at #9.

 

The bargaining chips the Bills have are Lynch, Whitner, Schobel, and possibly Edwards. Bills really need to move Lynch, Whitner and Schobel for sure... none of them figure into the Bills future plans. With the extendo draft time, the chances of dealing one or more of these guys is a distinct possibility.

 

If the Bills don't select Spiller a #9, I've got a gut feelin they trade down 10-15 spots and pick up an extra #2.... that's where I think they pull the string for sure on a LT and either a RT or NT. Unless they give up Whitner and Lynch, I don't see them looking at QB til at least round 3, and maybe not even then.

 

 

 

Edwards might be salvageable. I only say so because there was a night and day difference in his performance after he was creamed unabatedly by Adrian Young. He's not been close to the same. Gailey's offensive knowledge is 35,000 feet above whatever Fairchild, Schonert, and VanPelt could design and implement... so maybe Gailey's offensive wisdom and perhaps a move to more of a spread formation might be better suited to Edwards... maybe not. If not, there's still Fitz, Brohm and maybe Hasselbeck, Bulger, Campbell.... and even Roethlisberger (?????), or someone to guide the ship for a year. The way I see it, the Bills could easily finish 4-12 without solid QB play and position themselves to land a QB in the top five next year.

 

 

I think they do select Spiller as well. They will move Lynch for a lat 2nd-early 3rd and with Spiller, they have arguably, the best player at his position in the draft. With the emergence of Chris Johnson, he took a marginal game manager at QB in Kerry Collins and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. I think that Spiller has the opportunity to be better than Johnson consider his experience in a better conference and his ability to return kicks/punts. His running style would also be a great compliment to Fred Jackson's, IMHO.

 

I agree that Edwards may be salvageable as well and agree that this team, with the division getting stronger, will probably be in position to draft a QB early next year if Edwards falls on his face like everyone here at TSW is predicting.

[spartacus]

I don't totally disagree with you, H2o. But I do think people are over-valuing the run stuffer and under-valuing the pass rusher, knowing full well that I'm in the minority on this one.

 

The NFL is a passing league. NFL teams on average pass about 60% of the time. The top offensive teams are all passing teams. New Orleans, Indy, New England, San Diego, Minnesota, Green Bay, Arizona. Again, it's a passing league. As a defense, you'd be happy to be so strong against the pass that teams were relegated to running the ball against you.

 

I feel with the additions of Dwan Edwards and Andra Davis that the Bills will be able to "sell out" against the run on run downs and be reasonably effective in improving their run defense.

 

I also feel the elite defenses are the ones which can pressure the quarterback and force turnovers.

 

It's kind of a chicken and egg debate. One can say that Pittsburgh's perennial defensive success has a great deal to do with NT Casey Hampton. Or one can argue that it has more to do with the succession of great pass rushers they've had at linebacker (predating Hampton)...Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Jason Gildon, Chad Browne, James Harrison, LaMarr Woodley, etc.

 

There's no clear answer but I have no problem with an elite pass rusher at #9.

 

much more difficult to find the elite pass rusher than any other spot on the defense

 

you need playmakers and impact players from the top 10, not slugs who just take up space.

like RTs and slow, non-penetrating DL

[Green Lightning]

But I do think people are over-valuing the run stuffer and under-valuing the pass rusher,

 

The NFL is a passing league. NFL teams on average pass about 60% of the time. The top offensive teams are all passing teams. New Orleans, Indy, New England, San Diego, Minnesota, Green Bay, Arizona. Again, it's a passing league. As a defense, you'd be happy to be so strong against the pass that teams were relegated to running the ball against you.

 

I feel with the additions of Dwan Edwards and Andra Davis that the Bills will be able to "sell out" against the run on run downs and be reasonably effective in improving their run defense.

There's no clear answer but I have no problem with an elite pass rusher at #9.

 

 

If the NFL is a passing league, explain the NY Jets? They couldn't pass, everyone knew they were going to run the ball adn they still imposed their will and did so. In the NFL, you have to run and stop the run. We cannot stop the run or get off the field on third down. We need a wide body NT as well as a pass rusher. As it stands now, Maybin may be able to rush standing up but we have nobody to plug the middle and stop the run. If there is an elite rusher at #9, so be it, but it cannot come at the expense of starting the year in a new 3-4 with no real NT.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

much more difficult to find the elite pass rusher than any other spot on the defense

 

you need playmakers and impact players from the top 10, not slugs who just take up space.

like RTs and slow, non-penetrating DL

Thank you Spartacus. Got to thinking I was the only one who thought this way.

 

If the NFL is a passing league, explain the NY Jets? They couldn't pass, everyone knew they were going to run the ball adn they still imposed their will and did so. In the NFL, you have to run and stop the run. We cannot stop the run or get off the field on third down. We need a wide body NT as well as a pass rusher. As it stands now, Maybin may be able to rush standing up but we have nobody to plug the middle and stop the run. If there is an elite rusher at #9, so be it, but it cannot come at the expense of starting the year in a new 3-4 with no real NT.

Disappointing Green Lighting. So your counterpoint to New Orleans, Indy, New England, San Diego, Minnesota, Green Bay, and Arizona is the New York Jets?

 

Do you know what the word "anomaly" means?

 

If that is your vision of how you want the Bills to be, that's fine. Everyone, myself included would like the Bills to "impose our will" on the other team. We'd like to be the ones (like Bill Parcells) who can crow "Power football wins Championships."

 

But if you're going to debate my point, you'll have to do better than that. And I'm not even saying I'm right, but c'mon. You name the one exception?

[sllib olaffub]

I don't think the Bills can draft Spiller without FIRST trading Lynch. If they don't have him traded and they pick up Spiller, then they've got no leverage for a trade, and will only make Lynch more disgruntled, more prone to screwing up and or not showing up or not playing hard (ala Jason Peters) and then what? We've lost all value in a recent 1st round pick. So, if we are planning on picking up a high round running back we've got to trade Lynch before the draft. If we trade him before the draft it is a good sign we will pick up Spiller.

As for the value, positionally, of our high picks - I agree that our previous Bills teams of late couldn't get off the field. They couldn't stop people from running all over us. However, considering the unique nature of this draft, I could see us taking an elite pass rush OLB in the first and still getting a solid NT by the third round. The difference between Dan Williams and Troupe or Joseph or Cam Thomas isn't that much, but the difference between Morgan, Kindle, and the third round OLB's is much higher.

So, I say you draft for a set - which set of people adds up best for your needs - and go, in order LT, QB, NT, OLB with their first four, or, OLB, QB, NT, LT - but, in that last scenerio I think they have to trade back up to get a LT in the second or third round - I like that guy Washington from Abeline, who, if it weren't for a bad decision earlier in life would be a first rounder - man, if we could steal him in the third we'd be soooo lucky.

[EastRochBillsfan]

I don't think the Bills can draft Spiller without FIRST trading Lynch. If they don't have him traded and they pick up Spiller, then they've got no leverage for a trade, and will only make Lynch more disgruntled, more prone to screwing up and or not showing up or not playing hard (ala Jason Peters) and then what? We've lost all value in a recent 1st round pick. So, if we are planning on picking up a high round running back we've got to trade Lynch before the draft. If we trade him before the draft it is a good sign we will pick up Spiller. As for the value, positionally, of our high picks - I agree that our previous Bills teams of late couldn't get off the field. They couldn't stop people from running all over us. However, considering the unique nature of this draft, I could see us taking an elite pass rush OLB in the first and still getting a solid NT by the third round. The difference between Dan Williams and Troupe or Joseph or Cam Thomas isn't that much, but the difference between Morgan, Kindle, and the third round OLB's is much higher.

So, I say you draft for a set - which set of people adds up best for your needs - and go, in order LT, QB, NT, OLB with their first four, or, OLB, QB, NT, LT - but, in that last scenerio I think they have to trade back up to get a LT in the second or third round - I like that guy Washington from Abeline, who, if it weren't for a bad decision earlier in life would be a first rounder - man, if we could steal him in the third we'd be soooo lucky.

 

I kinda think the opposite is true. I feel the bills need to know we can get Spiller before we trade Marshawn. If we trade him before, then everyone knows we could be looking rb with our first pick and they might try to trade ahead of us to get spiller. and then we are screwed. well, we still could get someone later but I feel spiller is the upgrade we would be looking for. If we wait and Spiller is there for us, then we try to trade lynch. Phili had 3 qbs and did ok trading 1 of them. The worst that happens is we have 3 very good running backs. and somewhere down the road someone will need him and give us fair value. otherwise we keep him. That's my take on all that.

[DanInSouthBuffalo]

I kinda think the opposite is true. I feel the bills need to know we can get Spiller before we trade Marshawn. If we trade him before, then everyone knows we could be looking rb with our first pick and they might try to trade ahead of us to get spiller. and then we are screwed. well, we still could get someone later but I feel spiller is the upgrade we would be looking for. If we wait and Spiller is there for us, then we try to trade lynch. Phili had 3 qbs and did ok trading 1 of them. The worst that happens is we have 3 very good running backs. and somewhere down the road someone will need him and give us fair value. otherwise we keep him. That's my take on all that.

 

I agree and if the only backs we had on our team were Jackson, Lynch, and Spiller you could cut everyone else! Spiller becomes the "slash" player returning kicks as well as spot duty at RB and slot-WR.

 

I think we overvalue Lynch in trade value before the draft too . Even though I think his positives outweigh the negatives, because he's probably one incident away from another suspension, I'm thinking a 4th round pick. However, if someone misses their target in the draft I could see a late second or third happening.

[billnutinphoenix]

I think they do select Spiller as well. They will move Lynch for a lat 2nd-early 3rd and with Spiller, they have arguably, the best player at his position in the draft. With the emergence of Chris Johnson, he took a marginal game manager at QB in Kerry Collins and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. I think that Spiller has the opportunity to be better than Johnson consider his experience in a better conference and his ability to return kicks/punts. His running style would also be a great compliment to Fred Jackson's, IMHO.

 

I agree that Edwards may be salvageable as well and agree that this team, with the division getting stronger, will probably be in position to draft a QB early next year if Edwards falls on his face like everyone here at TSW is predicting.

 

 

I think Chris Johnson's offensive line was a little better than ours....

[BobbyC81]

It's a no brainer that the Bills need a couple of bookend tackles, a nose, a 3-4 DE, an OLB, and a QB. But... the Bills need a player to make an immediate impact now and for the next several years. I don't see any tackle or def. player (or QB) that will fall to #9 that will do that. That's why I'm guessin it's Spiller at #9.

 

 

You're right on. That's why I say no to Clausen since he has question marks. Too many 1st round QBs are busts. I don't think it's worth the risk.

[DarthICE]

It's a no brainer that the Bills need a couple of bookend tackles, a nose, a 3-4 DE, an OLB, and a QB. But... the Bills need a player to make an immediate impact now and for the next several years. I don't see any tackle or def. player (or QB) that will fall to #9 that will do that. That's why I'm guessin it's Spiller at #9.

 

The bargaining chips the Bills have are Lynch, Whitner, Schobel, and possibly Edwards. Bills really need to move Lynch, Whitner and Schobel for sure... none of them figure into the Bills future plans. With the extendo draft time, the chances of dealing one or more of these guys is a distinct possibility.

 

If the Bills don't select Spiller a #9, I've got a gut feelin they trade down 10-15 spots and pick up an extra #2.... that's where I think they pull the string for sure on a LT and either a RT or NT. Unless they give up Whitner and Lynch, I don't see them looking at QB til at least round 3, and maybe not even then.

 

 

 

Edwards might be salvageable. I only say so because there was a night and day difference in his performance after he was creamed unabatedly by Adrian Young. He's not been close to the same. Gailey's offensive knowledge is 35,000 feet above whatever Fairchild, Schonert, and VanPelt could design and implement... so maybe Gailey's offensive wisdom and perhaps a move to more of a spread formation might be better suited to Edwards... maybe not. If not, there's still Fitz, Brohm and maybe Hasselbeck, Bulger, Campbell.... and even Roethlisberger (?????), or someone to guide the ship for a year. The way I see it, the Bills could easily finish 4-12 without solid QB play and position themselves to land a QB in the top five next year.

 

First off Edwards was captain checkdown/ Chicken **** as for as throwing the ball with authority and down field and into tight coverage before his hit. Any fan thinking that hit is what has made him horrible has no clue. The guy is what he was in College. He never should have started a game in the NFL, he is another Dick Jauron pick.

 

Next, we signed our RT in Free agency. He has already stated the Bills have told him he is the starter, we won't be drafting anyone at RT besides backups.

[Dr. Trooth]

First off Edwards was captain checkdown/ Chicken **** as for as throwing the ball with authority and down field and into tight coverage before his hit. Any fan thinking that hit is what has made him horrible has no clue. The guy is what he was in College. He never should have started a game in the NFL, he is another Dick Jauron pick.

 

Next, we signed our RT in Free agency. He has already stated the Bills have told him he is the starter, we won't be drafting anyone at RT besides backups.

 

Dude... Cornell Green is 120 (actually 34 before the season kicks off). He's here for one season, if that. The next starting RT will come out of this draft.

 

I'll trust Gailey over you on Edwards. If Gailey wants him to throw the ball downfield and he doesn't, he'll kick him to the curb. So be it.

 

Your boy Claussen ain't the answer. He'd just be the 4th QB from California to be a bust in Buffalo in the past 10 years. We need a man at QB... and Bradford ain't it either. Bills will suck enough this year to get a shot at a top 5er' next year and take their QB then.