Official NBA Playoffs thread.....

[billsrcursed]

The more I watch this series, and Lebron in general, the more I believe that the reason that he is still a step behind Kobe Bryant at this point in his career is due to his unselfishness. Particularly in the latter stages of games. He has to realize when to take over a game. He's the best player on the court every night, just like Bryant, and he has to demonstrate that he understands this when the Cavs need key buckets. Too many times I've watched him dish to guys like Varejo or Jamison for a jumper in this series late in the game, instead of just using his raw talent to create and finish for himself. He surely has the skills to do so. Kobe understands that there are certain times in the game that need to be put solely in his hands. MJ had the same mindset. Sometimes you need guys like them to be selfish to win games. Lebron is an unbelievable player, but he needs to understand this in order to win a championship.

 

To go off of this, I was shocked he didn't figure out early on that his jumper just wasn't going to drop. His mindset should have been to drive, every single time. When he goes to the Basket, he can't be stopped without being fouled. Doesn't make sense that he'd continue taking jump shot after jump shot all night long when it was painfully obvious he was off...

 

Pierce did a good job. He dared Lebron to shoot, and the gamble payed off.

[Rico]

The more I watch this series, and Lebron in general, the more I believe that the reason that he is still a step behind Kobe Bryant at this point in his career is due to his unselfishness. Particularly in the latter stages of games. He has to realize when to take over a game. He's the best player on the court every night, just like Bryant, and he has to demonstrate that he understands this when the Cavs need key buckets. Too many times I've watched him dish to guys like Varejo or Jamison for a jumper in this series late in the game, instead of just using his raw talent to create and finish for himself. He surely has the skills to do so. Kobe understands that there are certain times in the game that need to be put solely in his hands. MJ had the same mindset. Sometimes you need guys like them to be selfish to win games. Lebron is an unbelievable player, but he needs to understand this in order to win a championship.

Agreed, but I wonder how much of this is Mike Brown's fault... he appears to me to be a very weak coach who's afraid of LeBron, I'm surprised they keep bringing him back. Someone like Phil Jackson would've got in his face & straightened him out.

[Lockport Bills]

Go Celtics!!!

[taterhill]

Lebron reminds me of Arod in so many ways...

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Lebron reminds me of Arod in so many ways...

 

Interesting. How so?

[taterhill]

Interesting. How so?

Incredible talent, but doesnt seem to have the IT to put his team over the top....IF Lebron ever wins at title he will do it with another 1A like Dwayne Wade...Arod finally won a title, but did so with about 5 other superstars on his team and didnt need to be THE guy.....also all of their answers seem to be contrived and canned.....I also liked both alot when they came into the league, but as time goes on the both seem like phonies that I root against....

[Buftex]

The more I watch this series, and Lebron in general, the more I believe that the reason that he is still a step behind Kobe Bryant at this point in his career is due to his unselfishness. Particularly in the latter stages of games. He has to realize when to take over a game. He's the best player on the court every night, just like Bryant, and he has to demonstrate that he understands this when the Cavs need key buckets. Too many times I've watched him dish to guys like Varejo or Jamison for a jumper in this series late in the game, instead of just using his raw talent to create and finish for himself. He surely has the skills to do so. Kobe understands that there are certain times in the game that need to be put solely in his hands. MJ had the same mindset. Sometimes you need guys like them to be selfish to win games. Lebron is an unbelievable player, but he needs to understand this in order to win a championship.

 

What was strange to me, about last nights game, was LeBron just didn't even seem all that engaged in the game. He seemed to be acting like this was the 57th game of the regular season, not a possible game changer in a playoff series. Just very surprised. In game three (when the Cavs smoked the Celtics) it was all LeBron, all game...I am expecting the Cavs to play much the same on Thursday. One way to beat the Celtics, when they are on their A-game (which they have been on in the playoffs, except game 3) is to get them into foul trouble. The one guy on the Cavs who is going to get every call (real or imagined) is LeBron. If he takes it agressively to the hoop, there will be contact, and the Celtics will get called for a foul. More often than not, LeBron can turn any drive to the hoop into a three point play. Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis, Paul Peirce and Kevin Garnett can all be in foul trouble pretty quickly. I have seen it happen way too many times with this team. The Cavs have not exploited that.

[Buftex]

Just listening to Tim Legler on the Colin Cowherd show (I hate Cowherd!) and both seem to be under the impression that LeBron James performance last night was more of a "statement" by him, than a bad performance. They compared his "disengaged performance" to a couple of Kobis games, when he was accused of teammates (Shaq) and his coach, of not distributing the ball enough. If you recall, after Shaq made a comment about the ball needing to be passed around more, Kobi came out, and took only 1 shot. Of course, Shaq was in his prime then, and those Laker teams were built on his shoulders, Kobi was the second guy... interesting. I don't think anyone has ever accused LeBron of being selfish...maybe he was trying to show up his teammates to the rest of the world? I am not saying I buy any of this, but LeBrons performance was pretty underwhelming...if it is true, it says a lot about him...

[bartshan-83]

Just listening to Tim Legler on the Colin Cowherd show (I hate Cowherd!) and both seem to be under the impression that LeBron James performance last night was more of a "statement" by him, than a bad performance. They compared his "disengaged performance" to a couple of Kobis games, when he was accused of teammates (Shaq) and his coach, of not distributing the ball enough. If you recall, after Shaq made a comment about the ball needing to be passed around more, Kobi came out, and took only 1 shot. Of course, Shaq was in his prime then, and those Laker teams were built on his shoulders, Kobi was the second guy... interesting. I don't think anyone has ever accused LeBron of being selfish...maybe he was trying to show up his teammates to the rest of the world? I am not saying I buy any of this, but LeBrons performance was pretty underwhelming...if it is true, it says a lot about him...

Something was definitely wrong with LeBron, mentally or physically...and he knew about it before tip-off. This wasn't a game where a superstar was ice cold. This was a player who purposefully altered his style of play from the first minute. Even his good moments (the bullet kick-out pass to Parker for a three in the 1st quarter when he was already 2 feet from the rim) were very uncharacteristic.

 

Legler and Cowherd's "theory" (while baseless and made only to draw listeners because it sounds juicy) at least touches on the idea that this was bigger than a superstar laying an egg. This was a superstar choosing to get out of the driver's seat for the biggest game of the season. Which leads me to believe it's an injury or something else.

 

Kobe and Jordan would never ever, ever, ever, ever get out of the way in this situation the way LeBron did last night. And while I've always thought LeBron's achilles heal at this stage is his lack of killer instinct, I believe that he is competitive enough that he would never have taken a pass like this unless he really believed he couldn't be effective.

[Cornerville]

I think some fans need to be reminded about how fickle NBA stars can be at times.

 

Lebron is being called out for being a bad sport, not showing up in the big game etc...most of the time lebron performs well, players have nights off.

 

Let me show you data from a game in 2006 about the great Kobe Bryant. Keep in mind this is AFTER he won 3 titles and before the team was basically given Gasol by an old friend Jerry West (lets just call that what it was , a hookup):

 

Kobe Bryant didn't stick around after the game for hugs and handshakes, choosing to walk off the floor rather than congratulate Steve Nash and the Suns

 

Strangely, though, Bryant's will to keep shooting didn't last much longer, bringing a muted close to his prolific season. The Ocho attempted just three shots in the second half after ringing up 23 points in the first, in what looked suspiciously like a surrender.

 

1 basket in the 2nd half of a Game 7...the biggest game...and do you recall when Kobe was bitching to get out of LA?

 

Boy, we all have short memories sometimes.

[bartshan-83]

I think some fans need to be reminded about how fickle NBA stars can be at times.

 

Lebron is being called out for being a bad sport, not showing up in the big game etc...most of the time lebron performs well, players have nights off.

 

Let me show you data from a game in 2006 about the great Kobe Bryant. Keep in mind this is AFTER he won 3 titles and before the team was basically given Gasol by an old friend Jerry West (lets just call that what it was , a hookup):

 

Kobe Bryant didn't stick around after the game for hugs and handshakes, choosing to walk off the floor rather than congratulate Steve Nash and the Suns

 

Strangely, though, Bryant's will to keep shooting didn't last much longer, bringing a muted close to his prolific season. The Ocho attempted just three shots in the second half after ringing up 23 points in the first, in what looked suspiciously like a surrender.

 

1 basket in the 2nd half of a Game 7...the biggest game...and do you recall when Kobe was bitching to get out of LA?

 

Boy, we all have short memories sometimes.

First...short memories...West didn't trade Gasol to the Lakers. He retired before that season. The new GM, Chris Wallace, is the one who wrapped up Pau with a nice bow and dropped him at the Staples Center for 3 bucks and a ball of string.

 

Second, LeBron last night was not an example of a player giving up; it was an example of a player never engaging from the start. Kobe has packed it in several times in his career (Game 6 of the 2008 NBA finals stands out pretty strongly). But as you said, Kobe scored 23 in the first half and then cut it off. That definitely smelled of him making a statement to LA that he wanted out.

 

Totally different from last night.

[Cornerville]

First...short memories...West didn't trade Gasol to the Lakers. He retired before that season. The new GM, Chris Wallace, is the one who wrapped up Pau with a nice bow and dropped him at the Staples Center for 3 bucks and a ball of string.

 

Second, LeBron last night was not an example of a player giving up; it was an example of a player never engaging from the start. Kobe has packed it in several times in his career (Game 6 of the 2008 NBA finals stands out pretty strongly). But as you said, Kobe scored 23 in the first half and then cut it off. That definitely smelled of him making a statement to LA that he wanted out.

 

Totally different from last night.

 

 

If you do not think West had something to do with that...well, what can you do.

 

That trade, along with the Garnett deal to Boston, had an influence from former players to the teams they were going to, to me that was fairly obvious.

 

I thought Kobe was 100 percent tenacious and never checked out? Remember he wanted out of LA, so let's not paint him as this perfect soldier.

 

That is the point about Lebron. And plus, he has a bunch of nice guys on his team, where is the other leadership? Where is the coaching? He needs out of Cleveland and he knows it.

[bartshan-83]

If you do not think West had something to do with that...well, what can you do.

 

That trade, along with the Garnett deal to Boston, had an influence from former players to the teams they were going to, to me that was fairly obvious.

I mean, it's not outside the realm, but a brand-new GM agreeing to let his former boss dictate his first huge move? But you know what, it was just such an unexplainable and stupid move that I really can't argue with you.

 

Now, Boston...yes. That was very obviously a favor. I don't think anyone thought otherwise.

 

I thought Kobe was 100 percent tenacious and never checked out? Remember he wanted out of LA, so let's not paint him as this perfect soldier.

 

That is the point about Lebron. And plus, he has a bunch of nice guys on his team, where is the other leadership? Where is the coaching? He needs out of Cleveland and he knows it.

I'm no Kobe shill. The guy has a lot of faults, but he is 100% tenacious...too tenacious in fact. Kobe will go 3-25 and keep shooting even when it's hurting his team. Even the "older wiser" Kobe still stubbornly refuses to let Gasol dominate the mismatches every now and then. He'll never not want to be the hero. But he has also quit on his team when things don't go his way.

 

You'll get no argument from me about LeBron's supporting cast. He has no coach; Mike Brown is a clown. His teammates are average at best (besides Jamison who has disappeared anyway). But I'm confused...are you saying that he would purposely play bad to get out of Cleveland? That makes no sense.

 

If anything, I'm defending LeBron (in a weird way). His performance last night was so bizarre that I have to believe there is a much bigger issue.

[Special K]

So, does anyone else think Lebron is going to have a monster game, the Cavs will still lose, and his Cavs career ends tonight?

[bartshan-83]

So, does anyone else think Lebron is going to have a monster game, the Cavs will still lose, and his Cavs career ends tonight?

I honestly have no possible clue what will happen. Tuesday's game was such a bizarre event, I still can't quite get my head around it.

 

My gut says there is no way LeBron doesn't go down blazing. But a week ago, I would have bet every dollar that he'd never have a game like Game 5.

 

I haven't looked forward to an NBA game like this in awhile.

[Buftex]

So, does anyone else think Lebron is going to have a monster game, the Cavs will still lose, and his Cavs career ends tonight?

 

 

I am with you...I think LeBron has a major game...but, I gotta say, as unimpressed as I am with LeBrons teammates, I am really impressed by how well the Celtics have been playing. They are in a groove. As long as the Celtics can avoid major foul trouble (an achilles heal for this team..they don't always play emotionally smart, as good as they are, and can get chippy...something the Bruins could use! ) I just don't see them losing this game. After crucifying James all day yesterday, the media spin today has been that the Celtics are 32-1 all-time when they have been up 3-2 in a series...always sure to point out that the single time they lost in this scenario was when they were eliminated by Orlando last year. Well, as you know, the Cavs are not as good as the Magic were last year (or this year), and the Celtics, with a healthy roster, are much more formidable this year than last. The fact that they were able to get to game 7 against Orlando was a stroke of luck last year...as much as Garnett and Pierce may have slipped offensively this year, they are still both playing solid defense, and Rondo and Ray Allen have been amazing....the truth is, the Celtics play LeBron pretty well.

 

When this playoff season started, I really had no idea what to expect from the Celtics. After a monster 1st half of the season, they were awful down the stretch...but they were never healthy....

 

What sucks for me...I have to watch this game at like 1:30am...gotta gig tonight, being underemployed, I couldn't afford to turn it down...but I expect to be keeping my gf all night, screaming and moaning...watching the game, you pigs!

 

I am pumped...

[ieatcrayonz]

Geez, the Celtics knock out the Cavs easily in the second round. Who could have predicted that?

 

P.S. Read the whole post for an insight into next season and beyond. Yawn.

[bbb]

I didn't watch much of the game, but every time I saw it Lebron was dribbling off his foot or something.........And, then the last few minutes, giving up offensive rebounds, and just totally quitting with a minute left - I couldn't figure out what the Cavs were doing........Lebron looked fired up high fiving fans, as if he just won........That was one of the weirdest endings I've ever seen.

[PromoTheRobot]

I didn't watch much of the game, but every time I saw it Lebron was dribbling off his foot or something.........And, then the last few minutes, giving up offensive rebounds, and just totally quitting with a minute left - I couldn't figure out what the Cavs were doing........Lebron looked fired up high fiving fans, as if he just won........That was one of the weirdest endings I've ever seen.

He's probably happy knowing he'll be in NYC next year. I doubt he'll achieve much with the Knicks. So far James has come up small in the playoffs. I'm not a Kobe fan but at least he comes though when needed.

 

PTR

[Bufcomments]

Agreed, but I wonder how much of this is Mike Brown's fault... he appears to me to be a very weak coach who's afraid of LeBron, I'm surprised they keep bringing him back. Someone like Phil Jackson would've got in his face & straightened him out.

Mike Brown got out-coached this series and last year as well.

 

They should have put LB on the block and posted him up the whole 4th Qt. Either he gets fouled on kicks it out for the 3 pointer or takes his man.

 

And at the end of the game you DON'T foul??? WTF?? Brown should be fired for that right there.

 

Having said that Lebron still can't do it by himself. I thought lasts years team was better. Shaq is done, Mo Williams got scared, Jamison had his moments but to me he didn't fit the team.

 

I hope Lebron stays, It took Jordan 6 years before they got all the pieces together. If he leaves The Cavs will go back to suckville quickly.