If they suspend Big Ben is that a dangerous precedent?

[purple haze]

Pacman did plead out to a lot of crimes which is an admission of guilt. Ben had two incidents with not even as much as a civil suite/settlement. Pacman had over 8 incidents with a few pleading outs as well as civil suites and incidents.

 

Sorry I wouldn't suspend a man for two allegations that went nowhere. Anyone can accuse anyone of doing anything.

 

Big Ben's firs accuser has filed a civil suit. It's caught up in procedural haggling right now, but it has been filed. Goodell has brought this on himself. Pacman might have plead out, but he still was not convicted. Can't have two sets of rules. A leader has to be consistent or he will lose respect. Don't think the players aren't watching what happens.

[purple haze]

His suspension was based on behavior and the crimes to which he pled out to were part of that. Its a personal conduct policy but if you don't do anything illegal which doesn't even warrant a trial or civil suite or settlement/plea agreement then is it just policing your luck?

 

Any women who is at a bar with any athlete can accuse that man of a similar act does that mean he should get suspended if a year later a different women makes another merit less accusation.

 

 

His personal conduct was to be in a bar bathroom with some young girl and get himself in the middle of a second sexual assault allegation. An accusation doesn't make it true, but to be accused of something that serious within a year makes one wonder what he's doing to put himself in these positions. Personal conduct is about representing the league. Being accused of thing Ben was is a black eye for the league.

[billsfan89]

Big Ben's firs accuser has filed a civil suit. It's caught up in procedural haggling right now, but it has been filed. Goodell has brought this on himself. Pacman might have plead out, but he still was not convicted. Can't have two sets of rules. A leader has to be consistent or he will lose respect. Don't think the players aren't watching what happens.

 

Pleading out is a conviction you are pleading guilty to a less crime which is at least grounds for a suspension in my eyes (Assuming the crimes are major ones). I think that if the justice system doesn't find you guilty in any capacity then its a very dangerous state of affairs to hand out suspensions for accusations.

 

Players will lobby for an actual appeals system in the next CBA. I mean how can the guy who hands out the suspensions be the same guy you appeal to? Honestly what kind of backwards system is that?

[billsfan89]

His personal conduct was to be in a bar bathroom with some young girl and get himself in the middle of a second sexual assault allegation. An accusation doesn't make it true, but to be accused of something that serious within a year makes one wonder what he's doing to put himself in these positions. Personal conduct is about representing the league. Being accused of thing Ben was is a black eye for the league.

 

 

But handing out suspensions for conduct that is within the law is something that is a very dangerous slope to follow. How long before the players find this policing of their legal behavior unnecessary? The old adage is you can't legislate morality, well if a player embarrasses his wife by having multiple mistress including porn stars (Tiger Woods like situation) and the commish suspends him is that a fair suspension? After all that kind of behavior isn't representing the league well.

 

I am simply saying when does the NFL start policing morality within the confines of the law or have they already begun doing so? Will the players continue to stand by this or will they revolt?

 

Hell I wouldn't be so mad if Goodell had some checks and balances but he appeals to himself on these issues and anything short of a court injunction can't stop him. If they want to start legislating to a higher standard then they better have an actual system that players can have a fair sense of justice in rather then just one guy doing all of the sentencing. We all got bitchy when Lynch got 3 games and Brandon Marshall got his suspension reduced to 1 game. But now we all sit back and respect Goodell's judgement on this issue?

 

All in all can the league strong arm its players beyond the measurements of the law into fitting an image it wants so badly?

[billsrcursed]

Pleading out is a conviction you are pleading guilty to a less crime which is at least grounds for a suspension in my eyes (Assuming the crimes are major ones). I think that if the justice system doesn't find you guilty in any capacity then its a very dangerous state of affairs to hand out suspensions for accusations.

 

Players will lobby for an actual appeals system in the next CBA. I mean how can the guy who hands out the suspensions be the same guy you appeal to? Honestly what kind of backwards system is that?

It's a system of privilege.

 

These guys are owed nothing. They're paid millions of dollars to play a sport and represent the League as deemed fit by the Commisioner. If he feels a player is not living up to his expectations, he should be able to respond accordingly. As long as there is SOME consistency with how he does this, I don't see the problem.

 

The real question here should be, what is Ben doing to positively represent the League shield? Chillin in a bar bathroom with a drunk college girl is not what the League has in mind, I'm sure.

 

If the players don't like it, they have 2 choices; don't play in a league where the expectations are too high in regards to public attention, or, accept the guidelines and keep yourself away from situations where someone can accuse you of illegal activity. Seems pretty easy to me.

[billsfan89]

It's a system of privilege.

 

These guys are owed nothing. They're paid millions of dollars to play a sport and represent the League as deemed fit by the Commisioner. If he feels a player is not living up to his expectations, he should be able to respond accordingly. As long as there is SOME consistency with how he does this, I don't see the problem.

 

The real question here should be, what is Ben doing to positively represent the League shield? Chillin in a bar bathroom with a drunk college girl is not what the League has in mind, I'm sure.

 

If the players don't like it, they have 2 choices; don't play in a league where the expectations are too high in regards to public attention, or, accept the guidelines and keep yourself away from situations where someone can accuse you of illegal activity. Seems pretty easy to me.

 

You can't strong arm players to fit a family friendly image. Sure you can have a conduct policy to insure that players feel additional penalties when they get the breaks of the legal system (Probation over jail time, pleading out to lesser charges ect) but to go beyond that and try to tell Guys in their 20's who recently came into millions to live up to a higher standard that goes beyond the law is really overstepping the bounds of an employer.

 

Privilege not a right is just some jargon the NFL spits out to justify the fact that one man holds the key to the whole system. Can you justify any player not playing at anytime saying its a privileged system? Hey Lee Evans I saw you at a strip club 2 game suspension this is a family product is that a right thing to do even if Lee didn't get into any trouble that night.

 

In a league were players are known to frequently cheat on their wives they are going to hold the shield up to a higher standard?

[Buftex]

I think Roger Goodell has set a precedent, with Pacman, and others, who were accused, but never convicted of crimes. I am not sure if Roethlisbergers motorcycle accident a few years ago should be counted as a strike, but, if the NFL does not suspend Roethlisberger, the cries of racism are going to be loud...and maybe warranted. Amani Toomer and Chad Ochocino have already chosen to go there... one of the reasons the NFL justifies the suspension of players accused, though not necessarily convicted, is that their behavior has cast a negative light on the NFL. Now, I bet a lot more Americans know who Ben Roethlisberger, as opposed to Adam "Pacman" Jones...

[billsrcursed]

You can't strong arm players to fit a family friendly image. Sure you can have a conduct policy to insure that players feel additional penalties when they get the breaks of the legal system (Probation over jail time, pleading out to lesser charges ect) but to go beyond that and try to tell Guys in their 20's who recently came into millions to live up to a higher standard that goes beyond the law is really overstepping the bounds of an employer.

 

Privilege not a right is just some jargon the NFL spits out to justify the fact that one man holds the key to the whole system. Can you justify any player not playing at anytime saying its a privileged system? Hey Lee Evans I saw you at a strip club 2 game suspension this is a family product is that a right thing to do even if Lee didn't get into any trouble that night.

 

In a league were players are known to frequently cheat on their wives they are going to hold the shield up to a higher standard?

 

Who got in trouble for simply hanging out at a strip club?

 

Trust me, regardless of the fact we can watch these guys on TV, they are still employees of a company. A company can certainly "suspend" an employee based on circumstances that have nothing to do with the legal system. Not sure why you think Ben and company are any different?

 

And yes, a company can in fact enforce a family friendly image. Most Companies have a mission statement, and it typically includes community relations.

 

Ask yourself this; how do you think your employer would react to 2 separate accusations of sexual misconduct within a small time-frame?

[Malazan]

I am simply saying when does the NFL start policing morality within the confines of the law or have they already begun doing so? Will the players continue to stand by this or will they revolt?

 

All in all can the league strong arm its players beyond the measurements of the law into fitting an image it wants so badly?

 

Yes, you have the law of the United States confused with the player code of conduct of the NFL. I can see how that mistake is easy to make, but they are two different things. You're engaged in the wrong debate. I believe you're trying to debate whether the league's policy is too harsh. As mentioned, most players would disagree with you and have welcomed the increased punishments against repeat offenders.

[purple haze]

Pleading out is a conviction you are pleading guilty to a less crime which is at least grounds for a suspension in my eyes (Assuming the crimes are major ones). I think that if the justice system doesn't find you guilty in any capacity then its a very dangerous state of affairs to hand out suspensions for accusations.

 

Players will lobby for an actual appeals system in the next CBA. I mean how can the guy who hands out the suspensions be the same guy you appeal to? Honestly what kind of backwards system is that?

 

Goodell has already set the precedent though. If a player brings dishonor to the reputation of the league he's eligible for suspension. I don't like that he's the judge and jury either. But this is how he is choosing to run things so Roethlisberger will probably get a taste of it soon. At the end of the day the NFL is a private business and like any other company the head can suspend "employees" for continued irresponsible behavior. Two sexual assault allegations in a year's time is a serious red flag.

 

Not that B.R. is guilty of assault, but he's obviously putting himself into bad situations and that probably includes too much alcohol (serious issue), an attitude of entitlement (serious issue) and bad judgement (recurring serious issue). He's definitely put a black eye on the league and his organization with these occurrences. Goodell has no choice but to suspend him or he loses credibility amongst his employees and a good number of fans. He cannot be seen to have double standards in regard to these "incidents".

[BobDVA]

I think Roger Goodell has set a precedent, with Pacman, and others, who were accused, but never convicted of crimes. I am not sure if Roethlisbergers motorcycle accident a few years ago should be counted as a strike, but, if the NFL does not suspend Roethlisberger, the cries of racism are going to be loud...and maybe warranted. Amani Toomer and Chad Ochocino have already chosen to go there... one of the reasons the NFL justifies the suspension of players accused, though not necessarily convicted, is that their behavior has cast a negative light on the NFL. Now, I bet a lot more Americans know who Ben Roethlisberger, as opposed to Adam "Pacman" Jones...

 

I agree, he must be suspended. If not it certainly screams racism, even though it really just screams quarterback, not cornerback.

[pBills]

Still the players do want a sense of freedom. I mean if you play in a league that is going to police your behavior even if you don't get convicted of crimes then its only time before the players step in and use their union to collectively bargain restrictions on what the commish can do.

 

The danger is that at what point do the players say enough is enough and seek a less restrictive policy via collectively bargaining.

 

Also saying its a privilege not a right is a very simplistic argument the players have a right to make it in the league. I mean the commissioner can't say no Jews in the league its a privilege (A very extreme example but the point is that the commish can't be too selective of who gets a chance in the NFL there has to be a basis for suspension).

 

 

Tell that to Holmes who just got shipped out of Pittsburgh and who received a four-game suspension. Rothlisberger should be suspended 2-4 games.

[LGB]

From the Bleacher Report:

 

June 12, 2006: Roethlisberger is in an automobile accident. Roethlisberger was not wearing a helmet at the time. Roethlisberger was not at fault in the accident, and there were no drugs or alcohol involved.

 

Roethlisberger is cited for not wearing a helmet and failure to operate in his license class. These charges are no different than a speeding ticket.

 

July 19, 2009: A civil lawsuit is filed against Roethlisberger by Andrea McNulty in Nevada. McNulty claims that Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her.

 

No criminal charges have been brought, nor will be brought, because the Nevada District Attorney refuses to press charges in a case where there is no physical evidence.

 

March 5, 2010: Roethlisberger is accused of sexually assaulting a 20-year-old woman in a restroom at a club in Milledgeville, Ga. No charges have yet to be filed.

 

Here is how long the NFL has waited until punishment of the previously mentioned players.

 

Adam Jones: Seven incidents, including two incidents of disorderly conduct and a felony before suspension.

 

Mike Vick: Two felonies. Suspended after pleading guilty.

 

Donte Stallworth: Two felonies, including manslaughter. Suspended after pleading guilty and serving his prison time.

 

Plaxico Burress: Two felonies. Suspended four games by the New York Giants, still has not been suspended by the NFL.

 

Ben Roethlisberger:No criminal charges in any cases have been brought against him.

 

And people think he should be suspended already? Kind of makes you wonder.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375870-...nded-by-the-nfl

[pBills]

From the Bleacher Report:

 

June 12, 2006: Roethlisberger is in an automobile accident. Roethlisberger was not wearing a helmet at the time. Roethlisberger was not at fault in the accident, and there were no drugs or alcohol involved.

 

Roethlisberger is cited for not wearing a helmet and failure to operate in his license class. These charges are no different than a speeding ticket.

 

July 19, 2009: A civil lawsuit is filed against Roethlisberger by Andrea McNulty in Nevada. McNulty claims that Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her.

 

No criminal charges have been brought, nor will be brought, because the Nevada District Attorney refuses to press charges in a case where there is no physical evidence.

 

March 5, 2010: Roethlisberger is accused of sexually assaulting a 20-year-old woman in a restroom at a club in Milledgeville, Ga. No charges have yet to be filed.

 

Here is how long the NFL has waited until punishment of the previously mentioned players.

 

Adam Jones: Seven incidents, including two incidents of disorderly conduct and a felony before suspension.

 

Mike Vick: Two felonies. Suspended after pleading guilty.

 

Donte Stallworth: Two felonies, including manslaughter. Suspended after pleading guilty and serving his prison time.

 

Plaxico Burress: Two felonies. Suspended four games by the New York Giants, still has not been suspended by the NFL.

 

Ben Roethlisberger:No criminal charges in any cases have been brought against him.

 

And people think he should be suspended already? Kind of makes you wonder.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/375870-...nded-by-the-nfl

 

 

Yes, I do think he should be suspended. Two accusations of sexual misconduct in about a year. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Just sayin'

[LGB]

Tell that to Holmes who just got shipped out of Pittsburgh and who received a four-game suspension. Rothlisberger should be suspended 2-4 games.

Roethlisberger at the very least, has appeared to have used bad judgment. While a suspension might not be warranted, the team might want to consider some sort of internal action such as a team probation period - based on his involvement with a minor.

 

His statement was: "I'm truly sorry for the disappointment and negative attention I brought to my family, my teammates, coaches, the Rooneys and the NFL."

 

Roethlisberger Statement

[pBills]

Roethlisberger at the very least, has appeared to have used bad judgment. While a suspension might not warranted, the team might want to consider some sort of internal action such as a team probation period - based on his involvement with a minor.

 

His statement was: "I'm truly sorry for the disappointment and negative attention I brought to my family, my teammates, coaches, the Rooneys and the NFL."

 

Roethlisberger Statement

 

 

All of their statements are like that. No impressed with Big Ben. When I saw him at an event last year, unless you had big boobs he was blowing you off. That includes kids wanting autographs at this charity event.

[tennesseeboy]

OK in America you are innocent until proven guilty now regardless of what you think about Big Ben he wasn't convicted of a crime in any sense. Now if you think he is giving the NFL an image problem fine suspend him for however long you see fit. I simply think that the notion of suspending someone for allegations is really setting a dangerous precedent.

 

Anyone can make an allegation. And before someone says well he shouldn't be putting himself in that situation all I have to say is that even while taking precautions athletes are still targets for all sorts of crap. I just think that while the guy needs to be more careful he still didn't get convicted of any crime not even taken to trial on any charges.

 

So is anyone else here concerned that the NFL can suspend anyone for a series of allegations that lead to nowhere?

 

There was plenty evidence of misconduct. Witnesses saw him buying shots, the woman was, as a result, extremely intoxicated. The bodygaurd admits bringing her to the bathroom. There was sexual contact with a woman. The DA found that there was not enough evidence to warrant confidence that a jury would find him guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". Certainly there was some reprehensible conduct.

Even by white guy standards and forgetting the pacman incident a suspension is warranted.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

You can't strong arm players to fit a family friendly image. Sure you can have a conduct policy to insure that players feel additional penalties when they get the breaks of the legal system (Probation over jail time, pleading out to lesser charges ect) but to go beyond that and try to tell Guys in their 20's who recently came into millions to live up to a higher standard that goes beyond the law is really overstepping the bounds of an employer.

 

Privilege not a right is just some jargon the NFL spits out to justify the fact that one man holds the key to the whole system. Can you justify any player not playing at anytime saying its a privileged system? Hey Lee Evans I saw you at a strip club 2 game suspension this is a family product is that a right thing to do even if Lee didn't get into any trouble that night.

 

In a league were players are known to frequently cheat on their wives they are going to hold the shield up to a higher standard?

 

 

Have you ever had a job? I can be fired for having a visible tattoo or long hair! My employer doesn't have to wait until I get convicted of a crime to suspend or fire me and the NFL is no different. You are confusing the American court system's "innocent until proven guilty" with an employer's policies and responsibilities. Ben is giving a big FU to the league by acting like a drunken moron repeatedly and allegedly sexually assaulting multiple women. At very least he is going to clubs and drinking with underage girls and nailing them in the bathroom.

[Slayers]

There was plenty evidence of misconduct. Witnesses saw him buying shots, the woman was, as a result, extremely intoxicated. The bodygaurd admits bringing her to the bathroom. There was sexual contact with a woman. The DA found that there was not enough evidence to warrant confidence that a jury would find him guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". Certainly there was some reprehensible conduct.

Even by white guy standards and forgetting the pacman incident a suspension is warranted.

 

I am pretty sure that in NY Ben would be in court just for giving a minor Alcohol. So there would be your first reason to kick him for a few games. The next would be the fact that this girl went to the hospital and was ready to press charges until it was a huge media show then she didn't want to get her family involved in it so she dropped the charges. That would be reason #2 kick Ben to the curb for a few games and see if he is smart enough to start to make a better choice in life or not.

[Gugny]

I think Roger Goodell has set a precedent, with Pacman, and others, who were accused, but never convicted of crimes. I am not sure if Roethlisbergers motorcycle accident a few years ago should be counted as a strike, but, if the NFL does not suspend Roethlisberger, the cries of racism are going to be loud...and maybe warranted. Amani Toomer and Chad Ochocino have already chosen to go there... one of the reasons the NFL justifies the suspension of players accused, though not necessarily convicted, is that their behavior has cast a negative light on the NFL. Now, I bet a lot more Americans know who Ben Roethlisberger, as opposed to Adam "Pacman" Jones...

Agree 100%. The guy is acting like he's on perpetual spring break and like he's 19-years-old. It's a business and he's a professional. If he doesn't respect that, he should be suspended.