If they suspend Big Ben is that a dangerous precedent?

[billsfan89]

OK in America you are innocent until proven guilty now regardless of what you think about Big Ben he wasn't convicted of a crime in any sense. Now if you think he is giving the NFL an image problem fine suspend him for however long you see fit. I simply think that the notion of suspending someone for allegations is really setting a dangerous precedent.

 

Anyone can make an allegation. And before someone says well he shouldn't be putting himself in that situation all I have to say is that even while taking precautions athletes are still targets for all sorts of crap. I just think that while the guy needs to be more careful he still didn't get convicted of any crime not even taken to trial on any charges.

 

So is anyone else here concerned that the NFL can suspend anyone for a series of allegations that lead to nowhere?

[CarolinaBill]

Nope, pacman got suspended without conviction, ben should be next

[billsfan89]

Nope, pacman got suspended without conviction, ben should be next

 

 

Pacman did plead out to a lot of crimes which is an admission of guilt. Ben had two incidents with not even as much as a civil suite/settlement. Pacman had over 8 incidents with a few pleading outs as well as civil suites and incidents.

 

Sorry I wouldn't suspend a man for two allegations that went nowhere. Anyone can accuse anyone of doing anything.

[Malazan]

So is anyone else here concerned that the NFL can suspend anyone for a series of allegations that lead to nowhere?

 

No, they are welcome to leave the league at any time and not have any restrictions on their behavior. Why is it that the vast majority of players don't have these problems?

[SKRAAPY]

I think if the allegations have some substance, a suspension is justified. Corey Mcintyre didn't get suspended because it was a BS allegation. Everyone pretty much knows RothLIESberger did it.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Anybody catch what Terry Bradshaw said?

 

Terry on Ben

 

 

"Our relationship is not very good," Bradshaw told reporters. "When I told him to park the motorcycle, he got [upset]. Then he had the accident and since then he doesn't like me and I'm learning not to like him."

 

"If you're single and to walk into a bar with beautiful women and have them just fill your ego up and then ask yourself, 'Would they pay any attention to you if you weren't who you are?' Of course not because … I'm not that attractive [and] neither is Ben."

 

 

 

 

Hey it is the truth... You go Terry... Go Terry!

 

[CarolinaBill]

Pacman did plead out to a lot of crimes which is an admission of guilt. Ben had two incidents with not even as much as a civil suite/settlement. Pacman had over 8 incidents with a few pleading outs as well as civil suites and incidents.

 

Sorry I wouldn't suspend a man for two allegations that went nowhere. Anyone can accuse anyone of doing anything.

he was not convicted of the crimes for which his suspension was based on, his prior rep, just like ben's rape last yr, were contributing factors. also, you may be missing the point that a suspension is meant to teach the player as well, ben needs to be shown that this pattern of behavior is not ok.

 

I have no problem with suspending him 4-6 games

[murra]

I think if the allegations have some substance, a suspension is justified. Corey Mcintyre didn't get suspended because it was a BS allegation. Everyone pretty much knows RothLIESberger did it.

 

What? I don't at all. If there was any truth to the allegations he'd have at least been taken to court and had to pay them off with a settlement.

[billsfan89]

No, they are welcome to leave the league at any time and not have any restrictions on their behavior.

 

Still the players do want a sense of freedom. I mean if you play in a league that is going to police your behavior even if you don't get convicted of crimes then its only time before the players step in and use their union to collectively bargain restrictions on what the commish can do.

 

The danger is that at what point do the players say enough is enough and seek a less restrictive policy via collectively bargaining.

 

Also saying its a privilege not a right is a very simplistic argument the players have a right to make it in the league. I mean the commissioner can't say no Jews in the league its a privilege (A very extreme example but the point is that the commish can't be too selective of who gets a chance in the NFL there has to be a basis for suspension).

[CarolinaBill]

What? I don't at all. If there was any truth to the allegations he'd have at least been taken to court and had to pay them off with a settlement.

4 words "out of court settlement", you dont need a judge for that and it doesnt go on record, just a couple lawyers and a check seals the deal

[billsfan89]

he was not convicted of the crimes for which his suspension was based on, his prior rep, just like ben's rape last yr, were contributing factors. also, you may be missing the point that a suspension is meant to teach the player as well, ben needs to be shown that this pattern of behavior is not ok.

 

I have no problem with suspending him 4-6 games

 

 

His suspension was based on behavior and the crimes to which he pled out to were part of that. Its a personal conduct policy but if you don't do anything illegal which doesn't even warrant a trial or civil suite or settlement/plea agreement then is it just policing your luck?

 

Any women who is at a bar with any athlete can accuse that man of a similar act does that mean he should get suspended if a year later a different women makes another merit less accusation.

[Malazan]

Still the players do want a sense of freedom. I mean if you play in a league that is going to police your behavior even if you don't get convicted of crimes then its only time before the players step in and use their union to collectively bargain restrictions on what the commish can do.

 

The danger is that at what point do the players say enough is enough and seek a less restrictive policy via collectively bargaining.

 

Also saying its a privilege not a right is a very simplistic argument the players have a right to make it in the league. I mean the commissioner can't say no Jews in the league its a privilege (A very extreme example but the point is that the commish can't be too selective of who gets a chance in the NFL there has to be a basis for suspension).

 

Most players have no problem with enforcing the code of conduct. They usually sign a contract with an additional clause in regards to their conduct outside of football. I suggest looking into the issue a bit more. Ross Tucker has written a few articles on the issue for SI that are informative.

 

Most Players have no problems. There is no bar on what players do and the players consistently having issues generally have them for a reason.

[CarolinaBill]

His suspension was based on behavior and the crimes to which he pled out to were part of that. Its a personal conduct policy but if you don't do anything illegal which doesn't even warrant a trial or civil suite or settlement/plea agreement then is it just policing your luck?

 

Any women who is at a bar with any athlete can accuse that man of a similar act does that mean he should get suspended if a year later a different women makes another merit less accusation.

witness accounts said ben went into the bathroom with her, she came out and went immediately to the hospital and file a complaint, thats not dumb luck, thats a bad decision, she was underage, drinking, and a grown man takes her into the bathroom, to do what, discuss world events? no, they went in there for 1 reason, fortunately for ben he pulled out enough so that there wasnt enough DNA, and the club destroyed the tape, thats what makes him, and the league look bad, and thats why he should be suspended, SEND A MESSAGE, make better judgements.

[billsfan89]

4 words "out of court settlement", you dont need a judge for that and it doesnt go on record, just a couple lawyers and a check seals the deal

 

 

That's speculation based on speculation hardly meriting a suspension from his profession. How would you like if it in you job you looked a female co-worker innocently and she accused you for sexual harassment the complaint gets dropped because there was no merit to it and then a year or two later it happens again and you get suspended without pay for a few weeks even though they were just accusations.

[CarolinaBill]

That's speculation based on speculation hardly meriting a suspension from his profession. How would you like if it in you job you looked a female co-worker innocently and she accused you for sexual harassment the complaint gets dropped because there was no merit to it and then a year or two later it happens again and you get suspended without pay for a few weeks even though they were just accusations.

glancing at a woman, and taking her into the bathroom to !@#$ are totally different, there was evidence of contact, but not enough to proceed with charges, inconclusive was the word.

[CarolinaBill]

That's speculation based on speculation hardly meriting a suspension from his profession. How would you like if it in you job you looked a female co-worker innocently and she accused you for sexual harassment the complaint gets dropped because there was no merit to it and then a year or two later it happens again and you get suspended without pay for a few weeks even though they were just accusations.

and the point of that reply was to illustrate the fact that you do not need to go to court to have a settlement, he can do that discretely with the lawyers, not courts, no records

[billsfan89]

witness accounts said ben went into the bathroom with her, she came out and went immediately to the hospital and file a complaint, thats not dumb luck, thats a bad decision, she was underage, drinking, and a grown man takes her into the bathroom, to do what, discuss world events? no, they went in there for 1 reason, fortunately for ben he pulled out enough so that there wasnt enough DNA, and the club destroyed the tape, thats what makes him, and the league look bad, and thats why he should be suspended, SEND A MESSAGE, make better judgements.

 

 

Could be a girl looking to get a big out of court settlement. Not saying Ben is innocent but you can tell if there is forced entry without the presence of ejaculate. He had sex with an underage girl (Over 18 under 21) at a bar bathroom she claimed it was rape but the charges were clearly dropped due to lack of evidence. Sorry but anyone who has sex with an athlete can claim rape shouldn't we be more responsible with our intimidate need to convict them in the court of public opinion.

 

Duke Lacross team says hi. They had a history of being wild and crazy and everyone pretty much said guilty. Well look what happened those boys lost a year of their lives and their college lacrosse careers because of an accusation.

[CarolinaBill]

why dont you try not putting the victim on trial

that is exactly why these girls, and countless others, won't face their attackers in court, because instead of focusing on the criminal it becomes a persecution of the victim, who has already been thru enough, everyone is so quick to call these girls whores, etc its disgusting, maybe she was flirting with him and he took it too far, ultimately we never know, but it is down right dispicable the way victims are treated nowadays

[billsfan89]

why dont you try not putting the victim on trial

that is exactly why these girls, and countless others, won't face their attackers in court, because instead of focusing on the criminal it becomes a persecution of the victim, who has already been thru enough, everyone is so quick to call these girls whores, etc its disgusting, maybe she was flirting with him and he took it too far, ultimately we never know, but it is down right dispicable the way victims are treated nowadays

 

 

That's going to the other extreme. My point is there is two sides to each story and there are women out there who would sleep with a pro-athlete and accuse him of rape to try and blackmail him for money. There are also a ton of things a pro-athlete can do to cover their tracks as well as work the system.

 

My point is that I just can't see suspending a guy for two incidences that led to no criminal charges or even a trial is very very shaky territory to tred into I think that an intrinsic presumption of innocent should be incorporated into the commissioners policy.

 

If this keeps happening more and more I would revisit the issue but twice is to me at least a dangerous precedent.

[CarolinaBill]

That's going to the other extreme. My point is there is two sides to each story and there are women out there who would sleep with a pro-athlete and accuse him of rape to try and blackmail him for money. There are also a ton of things a pro-athlete can do to cover their tracks as well as work the system.

 

My point is that I just can't see suspending a guy for two incidences that led to no criminal charges or even a trial is very very shaky territory to tred into I think that an intrinsic presumption of innocent should be incorporated into the commissioners policy.

 

If this keeps happening more and more I would revisit the issue but twice is to me at least a dangerous precedent.

if it was black and white, yes its a dangerous precedent, but there's far too much gray in both these incidents, especially the most recent, to disregard it as some chick trying to make a quick buck. 2 SEPARATE INCIDENTS, 2 ALMOST IDENTICAL STORIES FROM 2 UNRELATED WOMEN, its a major red flag, and a black eye for the league