Jerry Jabber Posted April 13, 2010 Author Posted April 13, 2010 Well, this is not how you presented this thread or your comments in your original post. You also lost me the moment I opened the list and read Vincent Jackson as #1, Floyd #7, Reed ahead of Evans, Moss ranked something like 22...etc, etc. Clearly, this is the stupidest WR ranking list ever created. You definitely didnt present this as if you thought Lee was ranked way higher than that or that the ranking was absurd, so you have to expect these kinds of responses. And no, I didnt read any posts really once I saw this absurd list and your original post. You want to know what I love about his board? I love how all these posters use the O Line to make excuses for Trent, then many of those same people bash Evans who is literally about 10 times more talented and valuable to this team than Trent. So, Trent gets all these excuses like the O Line and coaching, but then they bash Lee for not being more productive and completely ignore the fact that our QB's have been ATROCIOUS during most of Lee's career. People forget that he was amongst the leaders in TD's his first few years in the league, that was until Trent took over full time and completely stalled Lees career. So the talent challenged Trent gets a pass, but the immensly talented Lee doesnt even though my mother could have been a more effective QB for this team than what we have had the last 2 years. PS: Its not an excuse when its fact! Fact is our QB's have been so bad that they have been embarrasing, thats not an excuse, thats a fact. Look at how pedestrian Moss looked in Oak with younger legs versus how unstoppable he was in Minn and NE...Look at Welker in Mia and Welker in NE...not even comparable... I know the post originally came across differently. Like I said, there are a lot of players on this team, regardless of what position (QB, O-line, DE, WR, RB etc...) that have underacheived due to the bad mismangement of this team over the last decade. Can Edwards turn out to be a good QB, it's possible...look at how bad Drew Brees was his first 3 years in SD, Brees had 31 games where he threw for under 200 yards including 6 games that were under 100 yards. Maybe Edwards is a late bloomer like Brees and TE needs better coaching and put in better positions to succeed. Same thing can be said with Lee Evans. The old coaching regime never played around their players strengths. It sounds like Gailey is going to tailor his offense to his players strengths, so that is a step in the right direction. Let's see if it works.
Rico Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Evans' biggest mistake was endorsing that misfit JP to be starting QB. He lost a lot a credibility and respect amongst Bills fans after that day, too bad. I don't think he would be getting slammed half as much if he just would've kept his mouth shut. Still don't think he's a true #1 WR, but I sure like him on this team, hope he has a great year with the new O.
Jerry Jabber Posted April 13, 2010 Author Posted April 13, 2010 Evans' biggest mistake was endorsing that misfit JP to be starting QB. He lost a lot a credibility and respect amongst Bills fans after that day, too bad. I don't think he would be getting slammed half as much if he just would've kept his mouth shut. Still don't think he's a true #1 WR, but I sure like him on this team, hope he has a great year with the new O. I agree. Evans is a class-act and I love having him on the team, but I think he is highly overpaid.
JPS Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Wow!! #56!!! He sucks. Cut the guy. He can't run routes. He can't get deep. He can't catch. Cut him now.
Thurman#1 Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 So, what are the excuses for Lee going to be? No QB, No line, No Coach, No Shoes, No Glasses.... The site bases their evals purely on what happened on the field, not on potential or anything else. So of course he's listed low, because he didn't have a QB throwing to him regularly last year. WR more than any other position on the field is totally dependent on another player, the QB to look good. Our QBs sucked and were made to look even worse than they actually are by the genuinely horrible OL. No surprise, and no reflection on Lee that he didn't catch a lot of passes last year. It's hard to catch passes that are never thrown.
Buftex Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 You should have scrolled down to post #13. But since you didn't, here's what I replied with: The excuses reign... I just posted this to see how many people would make excuses for Evans, because there are a lot of them out there. Now, is Evans really the #56 ranked receiver? Hell no, we all know he is better than that. The Bills have been a dysfunctional mess for most of the decade, which is any reason for any player on this team to be an underacheiver, regardless of their position. IMO, Evans is one of the best #2 WR's in the league, but as a #1 WR, he's not in the top 20. Evans lacks the size to outleap and outmuscle DB's and is unable to shake the double-teams. Evans needs a big physical WR to compliment him, hopefully Stevie Johnson or James Hardy can be that guy. Maybe with having an offensive minded coach (Gailey), he can put Evans & Parrish is better positions to succeed. You're a mad genius...
Peter Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Lee Evans, on Indy, would have a reason to run more routes and go over the middle because he'd have a QB who could find him when he's open and not lead him directly into the path of someone trying to take his head off. I thought that maybe because the Bills pay him a lot of money to be a professional would be the reason he would.
Ever Since '86 Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 The whole Lee can't go over the middle is BS. The coaching staff has to actually call a play where he is running a cross route for us to make that bogus assumption.
Thurman#1 Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Without the actual game film, their claims to study "every player on every play" are overstated at best, or a bad joke at worst. Basing a system on television coverage wouldn't allow even 25% accuarcy in terms of every player/every play, putting aside the subjectiveness of any grading they may do. "How Accurate Are the Statistics and Grading" "Clearly we're not lucky enough to have the game film the teams use and hence anything to do with the Secondary, Receivers downfield and coverage is limited at best. I'd love to do some work on which receivers were open on which play against which coverages but for the moment that's a long way off." (Ya think?!) Do you actually get what they are saying? Apparently not. They have film of every game and every play. But it's television film, so it doesn't show downfield play, it's focused on the QBs, and follows the ball. He is saying that he wished he had the film that the team get, which is bird's eye stuff and shows the entire field on each play, though it is extremely hard to see exact details of things like hand placement, etc. Did you bother to look at what they claim in terms of looking at every play? Apparently not. They don't grade players on every play. For instance, if the play is a handoff over left guard, the block of the RT is not important to the play, unless he fouls it up so badly that his man manages to run eight yards faster than the RB runs 5 yards and somehow makes the tackle. They grade guys on impact plays, whether bad or good. If you just complete your assignment but it has nothing to do with the play, you get no points. If the play is near you and you complete your assignment, you just do what is expected of you, you get no points. Whereas if you, say, pancake your own guy and make a block downfield, you will get positive points, and if your guy blows you up and makes the play, you get negative points. Obviously, then, a guy who runs a good pattern but doesn't get the ball thrown to him isn't supposed to get points, and therefore the system works just fine. Make a great catch or a great move for YAC and you get points and the camera will catch it with no problem. The CB who was covering you makes the play on another guy, you get negative points for blocking and the camera notices. Drop the ball and you get negative points. In other words, the system works just as advertised. Try educating yourself before you just blow up without having a clue what you're talking about. Read the stuff on the site you're talking about, maybe. Perhaps some blocking might be off-camera, but all the catches and drops which make up the huge majority of points will be caught just fine.
Thurman#1 Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Hmmm...yes...because "ProFootballFocus.com" is the bastion of all football knowledge in the world. If only we all had such marvelous credentials. No, but I don't remember them claining to be a bastion of all football knowledge. They admit what they are and live up to their own billing. And you should indeed wish all of us had such marvelous credentials. Perfect, far from it. Damn good, yup. Better on certain positions than others, sure, but an excellent site. The key point about Lee Evans, though, and they would immediately fess up to this, is that their system makes it very clear that they don't grade on talent or potential or speed or anything. Just performance last year, and just impact plays, and unless your QB throws it to you, it's almost impossible for a reciever to make impact plays.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 How much (%-wise) did TO's numbers fall off after coming here? I say we inflate Lee's numbers by a similar amount to get his "true" potential.
sharper802 Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Lee Evans on Indy would have to learn to run more routes and go over the middle. Really I don't recall Reggie Wayne going over the middle much
JPS Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Evans is a terrific route runner. BUT HE'S RANKED #56!! Sorry. I don't mean to shout. But I'm getting tired of this ignorant sh*t. Patrick Moran, Pro Football Focus, etc. T minus 7 days to sanity (I hope).
metzelaars_lives Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Malcolm Floyd is 7th and Calvin Johnson is 35th. As Slater says to Mitch Kramer, "OK..."
Peter Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Really I don't recall Reggie Wayne going over the middle much I saw every one of the games that Reggie Wayne played in college. I have seen many of his games as a Colt. Reggie Wayne is a much better and much more complete WR than Lee Evans. [P.S. I also have seen Reggie go over the middle.]
Peter Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 How much (%-wise) did TO's numbers fall off after coming here? I say we inflate Lee's numbers by a similar amount to get his "true" potential. How do we factor in the plays that TO took off, had crisco on his hands, or had alligator arms?
grelit Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 That ranking is directly tied to the bums that he has at QB on this team throwing him the Ball. I bet you that Fred Jackson is ranked first in number of check down passes caught.
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 The whole Lee can't go over the middle is BS. The coaching staff has to actually call a play where he is running a cross route for us to make that bogus assumption. right on! Lee doesn't go over the middle because he doesn't want to is total BS. How would that work? Lee: "Coach, don't call that play, I'd rather run a fly route" or "yeah, I know I was supposed to cross over the middle, but I thought I could get open with my speed on the sidelines" it has to be the play calling!
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