Interview With A Scout

[Thurman#1]

I went back a page and found this little gem

 

"I reported from Mobile in January that wide receivers that lack speed but especially quickness are in increasingly low demand, and that’s becoming ever more evident. Nearly everyone I talk to, and that includes scouts, personnel people, and coaches, tell me that the ability to get open on their own and then catch the ball reliably are absolute requisites for a wideout to get drafted by their teams. The days of Limas Sweed, James Hardy, Dwayne Jarrett and Ramses Barden--very big receivers with long strides that lack lateral quickness and acceleration--being drafted above the 5th round are over. "

 

 

 

OUCH! Didn't see that one.

[Thurman#1]

Same can be said for the QB position. There are several QBs that people aren't looking at that are going to be good. Again fans think you gotta have a fist round QB and that is bull ****.

 

 

 

Where did it say that in the article? Because no offense, but I rank your opinion slightly below the scout's. You could be right. But the odds are very much against it.

 

Nobody thinks that you HAVE to have a first round QB. We just think that if you don't get a first-rounder, your odds of success go way, way down, and that is simply based on the factual success rates of guys drafted in later rounds.

[Thurman#1]

But you've gotta have a damn good one, first round or not. There's no debating that, so don't bother.

 

 

 

You don't absolutely have to, as the last two Super Bowl winners have clearly shown.

 

But it sure helps an awful lot, you're absolutely right about that.

[Thurman#1]

That was a very illuminating link. The critique on Ducasse is understandable. He is a player who has little experience in football, he is out of a very small school and he is competing with the best of the best under the very critical scrutiny of NFL scouts. So it is very understandable that the very raw player be insecure. Ducasse is the type of player that you groom by starting inside and as he gains experience you might be able to move to the tackle spot. With a player such as Ducasse what is wrong with coaching him up (like Jason Peters) and in a few years you have a very quality player?

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever, but as the scout said, what you will have when you are finished coaching him up is probably a guard. Not a left tackle.

[Thurman#1]

That was a very illuminating link. The critique on Ducasse is understandable. He is a player who has little experience in football, he is out of a very small school and he is competing with the best of the best under the very critical scrutiny of NFL scouts. So it is very understandable that the very raw player be insecure. Ducasse is the type of player that you groom by starting inside and as he gains experience you might be able to move to the tackle spot. With a player such as Ducasse what is wrong with coaching him up (like Jason Peters) and in a few years you have a very quality player?

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with it whatsoever, but as the scout said, what you will have when you are finished coaching him up is probably a guard. Not a left tackle.

[PDaDdy]

Where did it say that in the article? Because no offense, but I rank your opinion slightly below the scout's. You could be right. But the odds are very much against it.

 

Nobody thinks that you HAVE to have a first round QB. We just think that if you don't get a first-rounder, your odds of success go way, way down, and that is simply based on the factual success rates of guys drafted in later rounds.

 

In context it makes more sense. I was just jabbing Darth Ice a little bit. I took his statement and basically switched the terms QB and LT.

 

 

And agreed. That is a safe statement about any position. The longer you wait the lower your odds of success.

[Thurman#1]

Scout's are talented people with opinions. Unfortunately, those opinions have been proven to be wrong as often as they are right. I do agree with his assessment of Bradford however. He may have all the potential in the world but he makes Rob Johnson look like freaking Iron Man.

 

The harsh reality is that every draft has "names" that fail miserably and unknowns that will have 15 year careers and be superstars.

 

 

 

You're absolutely right, scouts aren't perfect. But they're sure right a lot more than the rest of us, and have better access to info by a factor of probably ten. Which makes them worth listening to.

[Thurman#1]

LOL. Caffeine isn't the issue. Using a mid first round pick on a guard is if Wood never does take over the center position. As I mentioned I have hope for him. I expect him to take over at center. If he doesn't take over at center however then we made a "reach" pick.

 

Journeyman guards are mid round to as high as second round picks NOT mid first rounders. As I said with Donte, Wood would be a reach if all he ends up being is a journeyman guard. Donte is a decent safety. 8th overall?....HELL NO! which is why he gets so much flack from some. It's not his fault we drafted the guy 16 spots or a whole round early.

 

Here's to hoping Wood is indeed more than just that.

 

 

You're right about guards, but I would argue that it's true of centers too. How many centers get picked in the first round. Including Wood and Mack, seven in the last 11 years, if I remember correctly. It's still early in his career and he has a good chance to show major improvement over the next season or two (would have been this season, IMHO if not for the injury), but whether at guard or center, he'd better be damn good to justify the pick.

 

 

As you say, though, he's teflon. But I think it's because he's got a nasty attitude. People on these boards react like cats to catnip for linemen with nasty attitudes. Me, personally, I just want a guy who can play his position well. Mack doesn't play center with all that much of an attitude. He just gets the job done extremely efficiently. I wanted him last year. Sigh.

[dave mcbride]

You're right about guards, but I would argue that it's true of centers too. How many centers get picked in the first round. Including Wood and Mack, seven in the last 11 years, if I remember correctly. It's still early in his career and he has a good chance to show major improvement over the next season or two (would have been this season, IMHO if not for the injury), but whether at guard or center, he'd better be damn good to justify the pick.

 

 

As you say, though, he's teflon. But I think it's because he's got a nasty attitude. People on these boards react like cats to catnip for linemen with nasty attitudes. Me, personally, I just want a guy who can play his position well. Mack doesn't play center with all that much of an attitude. He just gets the job done extremely efficiently. I wanted him last year. Sigh.

My understanding is that Wood didn't play very well according the football outsiders etc. measures. He was a rookie and all, but I sometimes got the impression from this board that he's on his way to Canton.

[Thurman#1]

In context it makes more sense. I was just jabbing Darth Ice a little bit. I took his statement and basically switched the terms QB and LT.

 

 

And agreed. That is a safe statement about any position. The longer you wait the lower your odds of success.

 

 

 

Gotcha. And yeah, it's true at any position, really, but QB and LT especially

[PDaDdy]

You're right about guards, but I would argue that it's true of centers too. How many centers get picked in the first round. Including Wood and Mack, seven in the last 11 years, if I remember correctly. It's still early in his career and he has a good chance to show major improvement over the next season or two (would have been this season, IMHO if not for the injury), but whether at guard or center, he'd better be damn good to justify the pick.

 

 

As you say, though, he's teflon. But I think it's because he's got a nasty attitude. People on these boards react like cats to catnip for linemen with nasty attitudes. Me, personally, I just want a guy who can play his position well. Mack doesn't play center with all that much of an attitude. He just gets the job done extremely efficiently. I wanted him last year. Sigh.

 

 

I hear that. I just can't get a guy like Nick Mangold out of my head. The guy was a mid first round pick center. He started at center his rookie year unless I am mistaken and has already made the probowl at least once. (For those of you who don't whine that the probowl is meaningless because a guy you hate makes it every year). That was by far a home run but it is more than a little disappointing that our first round center can't even start at his natural position and the Jets' guy started and was a probowler day 1

 

*sigh*

[Thurman#1]

My understanding is that Wood didn't play very well according the football outsiders etc. measures. He was a rookie and all, but I sometimes got the impression from this board that he's on his way to Canton.

 

 

That's exactly right. That footballoutsiders had him doing pretty badly at run blocking, and that on these boards he seems to be treated as a god. It's that nasty attitude thing again, IMHO.

 

At profootball focus, his overall score was MINUS 7.7 ...

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4951

 

... which would have ranked him 47th out of 77 guards (left and right guards ranked together as a group), far from great, but not so bad for a rookie who was not surrounded by veterans helping him out. Both guys around him were playing their position for the first time, and Butler, who might have been the most help, having played RG last season, was quickly injured and out.

 

And on that line, Wood's score was the best of all our OLs (after Butler was out, anyway), and you know that the coaches were working a lot harder shoring up the weaker links, so I'm betting Wood got less attention than he deserved. The OL coach actually did a pretty amazing job with what they have (that's why the Steelers snapped him up), but I'm betting they spent a lot more time with Bell and Chambers and ...

[Thurman#1]

My understanding is that Wood didn't play very well according the football outsiders etc. measures. He was a rookie and all, but I sometimes got the impression from this board that he's on his way to Canton.

 

 

That's exactly right. That footballoutsiders had him doing pretty badly at run blocking, and that on these boards he seems to be treated as a god. It's that nasty attitude thing again, IMHO.

 

At profootball focus, his overall score was MINUS 7.7 ...

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4951

 

... which would have ranked him 47th out of 77 guards (left and right guards ranked together as a group), far from great, but not so bad for a rookie who was not surrounded by veterans helping him out. Both guys around him were playing their position for the first time, and Butler, who might have been the most help, having played RG last season, was quickly injured and out.

 

And on that line, Wood's score was the best of all our OLs (after Butler was out, anyway), and you know that the coaches were working a lot harder shoring up the weaker links, so I'm betting Wood got less attention than he deserved. The OL coach actually did a pretty amazing job with what they have (that's why the Steelers snapped him up), but I'm betting they spent a lot more time with Bell and Chambers and ...

[Thurman#1]

My understanding is that Wood didn't play very well according the football outsiders etc. measures. He was a rookie and all, but I sometimes got the impression from this board that he's on his way to Canton.

 

 

That's exactly right. That footballoutsiders had him doing pretty badly at run blocking, and that on these boards he seems to be treated as a god. It's that nasty attitude thing again, IMHO.

 

At profootball focus, his overall score was MINUS 7.7 ...

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4951

 

... which would have ranked him 47th out of 77 guards (left and right guards ranked together as a group), far from great, but not so bad for a rookie who was not surrounded by veterans helping him out. Both guys around him were playing their position for the first time, and Butler, who might have been the most help, having played RG last season, was quickly injured and out.

 

And on that line, Wood's score was the best of all our OLs (after Butler was out, anyway), and you know that the coaches were working a lot harder shoring up the weaker links, so I'm betting Wood got less attention than he deserved. The OL coach actually did a pretty amazing job with what they have (that's why the Steelers snapped him up), but I'm betting they spent a lot more time with Bell and Chambers and ...

[PDaDdy]

My understanding is that Wood didn't play very well according the football outsiders etc. measures. He was a rookie and all, but I sometimes got the impression from this board that he's on his way to Canton.

 

You get that impression because he was drafted with a pick acquired in the Peters trade. For many, even though there is no supporting evidence or proof, you must have unfounded, blind optimism for Wood's sure fire enshrinement in Canton. If not, how do they justify their belief that it was a good decision to get rid of a probowl LT just because he demanded to be paid like one?

[Coach Tuesday]

Just to add a point here - some scouts seem to have Pouncy rated in their top-15 overall. Again, a high pick for a center, but if the Bills have him rated that high they have to consider taking him even at 9. The interior line would be set for a decade.

[Thurman#1]

Found Part One of the Interview. It's fairly old, from last October, but extremely interesting.

 

http://football.realgm.com/src_feature/332.../#ixzz0kKBUXaIB

 

It was an early conversation and a lot has changed, but still, there's good stuff about Gronkowski, Bradford, and one guy is really positive about a guy named Kendrick Ellis from Hampton, a 340 pound DT. I can't find anything about him anywhere else on the net except for the real basics, size, weight and news reports. One of these two scouts calls him a taller Shaun Rogers.

 

One thing they mention is that Donte Whitner's brother will be available, UCONN DE Lindsey Witten. Hmm, that could get some discussions started on these boards. I might start a thread saying we should get him just to stir things up. LOL.

[balln]

LOL. Caffeine isn't the issue. Using a mid first round pick on a guard is if Wood never does take over the center position. As I mentioned I have hope for him. I expect him to take over at center. If he doesn't take over at center however then we made a "reach" pick.

 

Journeyman guards are mid round to as high as second round picks NOT mid first rounders. As I said with Donte, Wood would be a reach if all he ends up being is a journeyman guard. Donte is a decent safety. 8th overall?....HELL NO! which is why he gets so much flack from some. It's not his fault we drafted the guy 16 spots or a whole round early.

 

Here's to hoping Wood is indeed more than just that.

 

Uhh #28 out of 32 is not mid round. That is late first round. He was projected to go there or early second round. He is your best OL'man. It is a bout building a team. You can't take only certain positions based on what round it is. Take good players period.

[PDaDdy]

Uhh #28 out of 32 is not mid round. That is late first round. He was projected to go there or early second round. He is your best OL'man. It is a bout building a team. You can't take only certain positions based on what round it is. Take good players period.

 

Thank you for looking it up. So, if Eric Wood doesn't become our starting center for the next 5 - 10 years we used a "late" first round pick on a guard. For a team with SO many needs that will have been a dumb reach pick.

 

And for the record you ABSOLUTELY don't take certain positions in certain rounds. That is unless you advocate drafting kickers, punters and long snappers in the first round if they are really talented. That is just an extreme example that disproves your point. That being said unless I am mistaken Wood's performance ranked poorly for guards.

 

Where do people get off saying the guy is a great pick, our best lineman, etc. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF TO CONFIRM OR DENY THIS!!!! "I double dog dare you" to provide credible information to the contrary? And NO, your personal opinion and "gut feeling" don't count as credible information.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you hate Jason Peters. Could it be that your hate for Peters is blinding you to the reality that even though we used a pick on Wood that was obtained from the Peters trade that he really hasn't proven anything!!!

 

Bill Parcells would have your ass for anointing this rookie our best lineman. What a joke.