what's wrong with claussen?

[KD in CA]

Claussen? Meh. I like Vlasic better.

[starrymessenger]

I'm still trying to figure out how you know he is 17 in that picture and what the !@#$ that has to do with anything.

I suggest you not try too hard. You may give yourself a headache or become disoriented perhaps. But let me see if I can help you.

There are two reasons why you should stop trying to figure it out. Firstly, if I truly know for a fact that JC is 17 years old in that picture there is no way for you to know why or how I know that. Secondly, I may not know for a fact that he is 17 years old in that picture, which by the way happens to be the case. This is yet another reason why you will never figure out how I know he is 17 years old in the picture.

I visit a lot of message boards and by now I must have seen this picture, and associated negative commentary, 100 times. I have by the way seen the reference to his age in the pic as 17 more than once. Not that the precise number 17 means much to me, but it does seem about right and more importantly illustrates that Clausen and his buddies were just young kids horsing around when the picture was taken. So what is the relevance you say? Well the pic seems to have been relevant to the many who have circulated it with ridicule and serious pejorative comment.

Maybe your point is that I should not assert a fact based on hearsay, in which case I would say you are a hard task master, professor.

Now if you still don't get it there is nothing more I can do for you. Adios.

[Beerball]

an ex-teammate weighs in

sounds like the kind of player you want to lead your team

[WordByrd]

His fellow players elected him captain. He played hurt and brought his team back in the 4th plenty of times. He accumulated great numbers playing for a fairly mediocre team against top competition under the biggest microscope in college football. This guy is no Ryan Leaf. By comparison, Leaf played in relative obscurity until he rocketed up the draft boards in his senior year.

The funny thing is everyone keeps saying "his teammates voted him captain" when in actuality everyone who has been around sports knows the coaches take votes, and then pick their own captains. This is the most overused reasoning for why he is a leader.

[CarolinaBill]

an ex-teammate weighs in

sounds like the kind of player you want to lead your team

"He expects you to put in the same work that he’s been putting in and to work as hard as him. He tries to make guys better."

 

man we sure don't want a guy like that, what a loser, sounds like a real dick, no wonder everyone hates him

 

seriously though, i'd rather have a guy like that than a trent or fitz any day

[KD in CA]

"He expects you to put in the same work that he's been putting in and to work as hard as him. He tries to make guys better."

 

man we sure don't want a guy like that, what a loser, sounds like a real dick, no wonder everyone hates him

 

 

Seriously, with all the born leaders that have played for the Bills in the past decade, they obviously don't need a guy like that.

[CarolinaBill]

Seriously, with all the born leaders that have played for the Bills in the past decade, they obviously don't need a guy like that.

i know right, why would the bills want a guy that is a first in last out type and holds his teammates accountable, plays thru pain, and is a film junkie. they should def pass on clausen and take a qb later that doesnt have nearly the work ethic, they would be much better off with a guy that "willed his team to win" all by himself, cause football is an individual sport of course.

[KD in CA]

they would be much better off with a guy that "willed his team to win" all by himself, cause football is an individual sport of course.

 

Nothing like a QB who can 'will' his team to have a top 3 defense in the country.

[CarolinaBill]

Nothing like a QB who can 'will' his team to have a top 3 defense in the country.

its quite clear to me that the Qb also has control over the defense, not in the sense that he actually plays defense, but that if the defense is good and full of top recruits, then he will reap the benefits, such as defense creating turnovers, keeping the opposing teams score lower, and giving the offense a short field.

 

thats how you "will" a team to win, somebody else builds and coaches a top tier defense, and the QB capitalizes on what that defense gives him.

 

this is some excellent analysis, I can't believe I never put 2 and 2 together like this before.

[C.Biscuit97]

i know right, why would the bills want a guy that is a first in last out type and holds his teammates accountable, plays thru pain, and is a film junkie. they should def pass on clausen and take a qb later that doesnt have nearly the work ethic, they would be much better off with a guy that "willed his team to win" all by himself, cause football is an individual sport of course.

 

 

It's one thing to do that in college when you're the superstar QB and older than the other players (he's 23). It's another thing to do it in the pros when you're the highest paid in team history without proving a thing. His teammates, grown men, will have a little jealous at Clausen automatically. If tries to boss around a guy like Marcus Stroud, that won't go over well.

 

Clausen confuses the hell of me. I know this team needs a franchise Qb badly. however, I've never heard this many questions about a 1st round QB. Shanahan, Holmgrem, and Carroll all went in different directions. Personally, I want the safer pick of a LT or NT. Considering there will be a better class of QBs in the draft next year, I won't force the issue this year.

 

Whiffing on a top 10 QB could kill this franchise for good.

[robertpaul49]

Didn't Buddy Nix have good things to say about Clausen?

 

If he is available and the top offensive tackles are not available, the team needs to select him. The more competition at quarterback the better.

[C.Biscuit97]

Nothing like a QB who can 'will' his team to have a top 3 defense in the country.

 

At same time, only one 1st round QB in the last 10 years who had 4 or more losses their final season in college has a winning NFL record. The answer: Rex Grossman and we know how much credit Grossman deserves for that.

 

So while it's not Clausen's fault, losing in college most likely will mean losing in the pros. Maybe Clausen bucks the trend but he would be the exception rather than the norm.

[Beerball]

It's one thing to do that in college when you're the superstar QB and older than the other players (he's 23). It's another thing to do it in the pros when you're the highest paid in team history without proving a thing. His teammates, grown men, will have a little jealous at Clausen automatically. If tries to boss around a guy like Marcus Stroud, that won't go over well.

 

Clausen confuses the hell of me. I know this team needs a franchise Qb badly. however, I've never heard this many questions about a 1st round QB. Shanahan, Holmgrem, and Carroll all went in different directions. Personally, I want the safer pick of a LT or NT. Considering there will be a better class of QBs in the draft next year, I won't force the issue this year.

 

Whiffing on a top 10 QB could kill this franchise for good.

Please don't read anything extra into this...but when it comes to being a teammate exactly what kind of leader do you think we had behind center when they were the Bickering Bills?

[starrymessenger]

At same time, only one 1st round QB in the last 10 years who had 4 or more losses their final season in college has a winning NFL record. The answer: Rex Grossman and we know how much credit Grossman deserves for that.

 

So while it's not Clausen's fault, losing in college most likely will mean losing in the pros. Maybe Clausen bucks the trend but he would be the exception rather than the norm.

If he falls to the Patriots he will buck the trend (and we will ive to regret it). I would not be too sure about Holmgren's intentions either. Its that time of year you know.

As for the risks to a franchise, don't you think the Rams are taking on a @#$%load of risk if they do as expected and draft Bradford? Can they (or Detroit last year, or any team for that matter) afford to drop $80MM on a dud QB? You do it in spite of the risks because you need a franchise QB to win in this league. You might say trying to compete in this league is risky - but what choice do you have? You have none. If the tackles are gone and Clausen is there odds are they will take him because he is your best and most probable opportunity to draft a franchise QB.

[CarolinaBill]

At same time, only one 1st round QB in the last 10 years who had 4 or more losses their final season in college has a winning NFL record. The answer: Rex Grossman and we know how much credit Grossman deserves for that.

 

So while it's not Clausen's fault, losing in college most likely will mean losing in the pros. Maybe Clausen bucks the trend but he would be the exception rather than the norm.

you put his production on a team with a defense and he doesnt lose. That is why he will buck that trend, I CANNOT emphasize how awful that defense was, especially against the run, it was embarassing.

 

Like I said, If clausen had the defense that TT had at FLA, during his career at ND it would be a completely different story. And as others have pointed out, JC did what he did this yr with torn ligaments in his foot and a broken toe virtually all yr. Some team even stomped on his foot during the games, But that didnt stop him.

 

He's tough, accurate, he's a leader, a film junkie and a gym rat, he wants to win and is dedicated to doing everything he can to win. I don't understand why everyone is so down on this guy he made some dumb decisions as a 17-18 yr old HS student big deal, He's a MAN now, and he should be our 9th pick.

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

its quite clear to me that the Qb also has control over the defense, not in the sense that he actually plays defense, but that if the defense is good and full of top recruits, then he will reap the benefits, such as defense creating turnovers, keeping the opposing teams score lower, and giving the offense a short field.

 

thats how you "will" a team to win, somebody else builds and coaches a top tier defense, and the QB capitalizes on what that defense gives him.

 

this is some excellent analysis, I can't believe I never put 2 and 2 together like this before.

I agree that a stud QB (and to some extent a D captain who refuses to lose) can actually have an impact on the other unit though he is not on the field. This comes in tangible ways in that a QB that routinely produces 3 and outs is gonna exhaust his defensive team because they are in for more plays.

 

It also comes in intangible ways in that we have all seen QBs who when given any time at all on the clock prove able to lead their team back for the winning or game tying score. His D unit knows this and rather than essentially giving up if they get more than a TD down at any point in the 4th quarter the D does everything they can to keep the game close knowing that all they need to do is give Favre, Manning, (or even Doug Flutie as much as some folks hate him he did just win a lot.

 

To some extent this is why I think that folks are simply overlooking some things when they ask what stats show a fault with Claussen methinks one need only look at NDs W/L last year to know that yes Claussen threw well but the team Weis did the planning for and he was the primary on field leader simply failed badly.

 

Was Claussen at fault?

 

No. He clearly ran an effective O.

 

However though he cannot be reasonably blamed for losing I think he can be blamed for not winning.

 

Unfortunately the situation the Bills find themselves (and us) in is that we need a QB that is going to need some serious reinforcements or he will have to carry the team and protect himself as well.

 

I simply see no indications that Claussen is going to be able to do this. As in college even if he plays well he never showed he has the ability to inspire or even force his teammates to be even adequate. In fact since he unfortunately showed he can be hobbled by the big hit unlike the best of QBs who seem to be immune to big hits or who get rid of the ball all the time so the hits are avoided taking Claussen while the OL is questionable or the DL seems to have an even bigger need for a wide body (or two) with the switch to the 3-4 depending on a rookie to go it alone without help sounds pretty risky.

 

If we end up with Claussen I feel like it will have happened due to bad luck because there was a rush on LTs and thus we settled for Claussen. I will be bummed but hope the best though all logical reasoning says expect the worse if this is the choice.

[C.Biscuit97]

Please don't read anything extra into this...but when it comes to being a teammate exactly what kind of leader do you think we had behind center when they were the Bickering Bills?

 

 

And that destroyed that season. But the big difference is that Kelly was already a pro bowl QB who was around 30 years old. A cocky kid getting paid more than guys who have been in the league 5 or more years, who couldn't win at Notre Dame (I know it's not all his fault but still), IMO won't go over well in the lockerroom. See Troy Vincent, one of the msot respected players in the NFL, sending a "message" to Losman.

[C.Biscuit97]

If he falls to the Patriots he will buck the trend (and we will ive to regret it). I would not be too sure about Holmgren's intentions either. Its that time of year you know.

As for the risks to a franchise, don't you think the Rams are taking on a @#$%load of risk if they do as expected and draft Bradford? Can they (or Detroit last year, or any team for that matter) afford to drop $80MM on a dud QB? You do it in spite of the risks because you need a franchise QB to win in this league. You might say trying to compete in this league is risky - but what choice do you have? You have none. If the tackles are gone and Clausen is there odds are they will take him because he is your best and most probable opportunity to draft a franchise QB.

 

If I was the Rams, I'd draft Suh or Okung. I'm not a huge fan of Bradford either and a workout in shorts doesn't change that. He still has taken a hit and the Rams have an awful oline.

 

Personally, I'd take the safer pick than roll the dice with a QB from this class in the first round. The strength of this draft is offensive and defensive tackles. I'd like to get one good of each. I don't feel great coming out with the 2nd best QB of one of the worst classes in years. Especially, when I believe there is a very special class of QBs coming out next year (Locker, Mallett, and Pryor). Just my opinion.

[C.Biscuit97]

you put his production on a team with a defense and he doesnt lose. That is why he will buck that trend, I CANNOT emphasize how awful that defense was, especially against the run, it was embarassing.

 

Like I said, If clausen had the defense that TT had at FLA, during his career at ND it would be a completely different story. And as others have pointed out, JC did what he did this yr with torn ligaments in his foot and a broken toe virtually all yr. Some team even stomped on his foot during the games, But that didnt stop him.

 

He's tough, accurate, he's a leader, a film junkie and a gym rat, he wants to win and is dedicated to doing everything he can to win. I don't understand why everyone is so down on this guy he made some dumb decisions as a 17-18 yr old HS student big deal, He's a MAN now, and he should be our 9th pick.

 

 

If we draft him, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. But I've heard similar stuff about Cutler. The reason he didn't win in Denver was because of the defense. However last year showed that Cutler was a huge reason why his teams didn't win. At some point, a QB needs to have the finger pointed at for his team not winning. And in Cutler's case, he hasn't won since high school.

[CarolinaBill]

I agree that a stud QB (and to some extent a D captain who refuses to lose) can actually have an impact on the other unit though he is not on the field. This comes in tangible ways in that a QB that routinely produces 3 and outs is gonna exhaust his defensive team because they are in for more plays.

 

It also comes in intangible ways in that we have all seen QBs who when given any time at all on the clock prove able to lead their team back for the winning or game tying score. His D unit knows this and rather than essentially giving up if they get more than a TD down at any point in the 4th quarter the D does everything they can to keep the game close knowing that all they need to do is give Favre, Manning, (or even Doug Flutie as much as some folks hate him he did just win a lot.

 

To some extent this is why I think that folks are simply overlooking some things when they ask what stats show a fault with Claussen methinks one need only look at NDs W/L last year to know that yes Claussen threw well but the team Weis did the planning for and he was the primary on field leader simply failed badly.

 

Was Claussen at fault?

 

No. He clearly ran an effective O.

 

However though he cannot be reasonably blamed for losing I think he can be blamed for not winning.

 

Unfortunately the situation the Bills find themselves (and us) in is that we need a QB that is going to need some serious reinforcements or he will have to carry the team and protect himself as well.

 

I simply see no indications that Claussen is going to be able to do this. As in college even if he plays well he never showed he has the ability to inspire or even force his teammates to be even adequate. In fact since he unfortunately showed he can be hobbled by the big hit unlike the best of QBs who seem to be immune to big hits or who get rid of the ball all the time so the hits are avoided taking Claussen while the OL is questionable or the DL seems to have an even bigger need for a wide body (or two) with the switch to the 3-4 depending on a rookie to go it alone without help sounds pretty risky.

 

If we end up with Claussen I feel like it will have happened due to bad luck because there was a rush on LTs and thus we settled for Claussen. I will be bummed but hope the best though all logical reasoning says expect the worse if this is the choice.

ok, first off, ALL THE QBS at the top of this draft have injury histories, In fact Clausen is the one who played thru them, Tebow, concussion out of game, Mccoy, in the big game takes a baby hit, pinches a nerve, he's gone, and bradford, 2 of the only sacks he ever took at oklahoma resulted in injuries. So what are the options?????

 

I still dont get how you can say he can be blamed for not winning, the guy played great and the D, which didnt have anywhere near the talent of a texas or florida, was simply pitiful. I dont care how inspirational a guy is, if he's preachin to a bunch of talentless bums, it wont matter at all.

 

Bottom line is that despite all the critics, and idiots like todd mcshay, Clausen is the best in this draft, hopefully we will get him, and all you skeptics will be shut up for a while. Its unbelievable that we very well could get our franchise QB and some ppl want to make up every possible excuse not to take him